| Author | Message | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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While I'm not familiar with Florida law, in Georgia there is a "Long Arm Statute" which can be used to obtain jurisdiction on out of state parties if they have "minimum contacts" with the plaintiff's state. That way you can sue them in your own state and they will still have to respond to contest the jurisdictional issue. That gives you leverage as with a small amount it will cost them less to pay up than to fight jurisdiction. This should only be done when you have a reasonable argument that the defendant has made minimum contacts with your state. Examples could be that the defendant intiated telephone calls or e-mails to you, advertising in a publication sold and bought by you in your state, delivering the car and/or title in your state and a host of other possible contacts. Be sure you look up your states long arm statute and make the proper allegations to assert jurisdiction. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Just though of my next license plate: LUV 2 SUE | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
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Thanks Magoo, I'm glad I'm receiving help here and hope to hear some good results. I'll give them a call tomorrow... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Modman, Let us know what you find out. In Florida, if you have a valid complaint, we have a States Attorney office that is very blood thirsty . | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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The main office is in Tallahasse Fl.. I don't have that but call the States Attorney office here in Palm Beach at 1-561-355-7100 and tell them you want to file a consumer complaint. However I would ask them if there was a direct 800 no. to the Tallahasse States Attorneys office. They may take your complaint here or direct you to Tallahasse. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
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Magoo, how can I get a hold of Floridas state attorneys office # to check on this situation? maybe Martin? Thanks... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Modman, I guess I'm missing something here. As I said before why not contact the Fl. States Attorney's office and let them investigate your case. Also the States Attorney's office may already have complaints filed against these people. Let the state pay to fight your case for you. When they get a call from the state they will take a different attitude about your problem. If the state takes your case you can be sure you will get the immediate attention of these people. Why waste money? When you use your attorney they know they have till the 13th hour to stall and then cut a deal at the last minute before going to court, thus costing you large legal fees. Certainly worth a try. | ||
| Kevin Moore (Kevinm)
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Realistically, we might have better chances if we found a few others with the same problem. My case with Exotic Cars Wholesale is well documented | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
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Way to go Martin, us F-chat guys have to stick together ands help each other out more | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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hey, if you win we can call you: "ModLock"  | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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If you do file small claims in Ca and the jurisdiction is not CA but FL the suit would be filed anyway and the defendant will have to request to have the case dismissed because of false jurisdiction. That would mean you just wasted $200 but at that moment they know you are game. If that happens you will file suit here in FL. I can get the papers for you and send them to you. No problemo. You may have to come to pre-trial conference. That I can find out. If you have to I can get you a lawyer that will represent you in pre-trial for cheap money. He will not fight your case just be there for pre-trial. Otherwise if you can send somebody with power of attorney I will go myself and charge you nada. There you can request to send it to trial right away or go for mitigation right away. If mitigation fails you set it for trial. That means one month later you will have to be in Ft. Lauderdale for the trial. February not a bad time to be here... I'd say your money exposure is no more than $1000 with plane trip and your chance of getting your money is very very very good. I should have studied law. Damn I love litigation. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Modman, my point is that I would not see this as an out of state case! You were in CA when they requested funds from you. I assume your funds were sent in form of a wire from your CA bank or in form of a check (that is a Federal offense, mail fraud, for which you could also contact the FBI). But fact they were sent from CA not FL. If you signed a contract for which you send the deposit for than ther eis likely a stipulation in that contract which jurisdiction is appropriate. In any case. Small Claims is when you do not need a lawyer to file suit. Every State has the option from smaller cases to be tried by the individuals themselves. YOu will be your own lawyer. I have just filed suit and settled with American Airlines. It is easy to file (cost about $150 plus service ($50) and you have yourself the suit nobody wants to take and I can almost guarantee you will win that case. I would not even settle with them. File suit first in your court house. Call them and have them send you the papers to fill out for a small claims suit. They are as binding and serious as regular cases with juries and lawyers. The judge is more lienient on both parties as they are usually both not professionals. You state your case, they will state theirs (my guess is they will send you the money once they are served in exchange for dropping the suit). Don't let therm get away with it. This is breeding bad behavior. I believe that you have to fight for what is right. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
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Martin, California attorneys cannot be used for an out of state case. I was referred to an attorney in Florida and it seems that they won't work on small cases which they say mine is, they say the case has to be worth their time to be involved with like 50k or more. I thought that was B.S. greedy. Magoo's idea sounds good though.. I have never been in a predicament like this and it sounds like a lot of work that could cost me more money than what I lost. But if there is someone who can do the work for me without me forking any more money than what I lost and if I can get my deposit back I would be more than happy to give some of that money taken from me. What I need is someone to represent me in Florida but what that would cost I don't know, but winning the case there is some of that to go with. Any ideas? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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MOdman; giving that you had your contact from California and they send you papers to California and talekd to you in California, I do not see why you can not file suit against them in CA. $5K is a small claims court case. You have all the evidence and will win that case no problem. They will not send a lawyer to CA. File suit, win and then go after their assets in Florida. Once you have the judgement you can have that altered to reflect that all possessions can be seized and you take one flight down to their store/office and have the Sheriff there and seize property. As with Frank, sending them letters does not work. If they ignored you 50 times they will ignore you 51 times as well. When the Sheriff walks in their door that will get them the attention you desire. If there is anything you need from me here I would gladly help you. Broward is just 30 minutes away and I have a great court processor that can even file the claim for you here in Small Claims. I would have to check if you have to be there for the pre-trial conference. Giving that you are out of the State you may be able to send a representative with a power of attorney. Not sure though. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Modman, Just a suggestion. If what you say is true why don't you contact the States Attorney's office with a written complaint and let them do the legal work for you. Yours may not be the first complaint. If there are others your complaint will lend credibility to the case. Usually when the States Attorney contacts them you get action. They like having a license to stay in business. | ||
| Howie F. (Brokerofexotics)
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Modman, That is unreal. Besides taking pride in being honest and ethical, one would think when it comes to the business of selling exotics that dealers, mechanics, brokers, etc. would realize word spreads very quickly in the exotic car community. Consistant horrible stories like the ones below will eventually destroy their business - sooner rather than later. I will never understand why some people opt for the quick buck at the expense of their morality and business longevity. I hope thing work out well for you, Mod. know that we all wish you the best of luck. And please keep us posted. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
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Well Nunja and anyone else reading this, my experience has been one of the worst I've ever had being scammed. It's a long story that went from days to months, I've even contacted my attorney who can confirm on the judgement from the documents I represented. They promised to sell me a 95 Diablo at the purchase agreement and I made them sign the agreement I made for me to accept it. Well, after sending the $5000. the purchase agreement changed to a higher amount and I argued against it. I made it clear that I didn't want to go further unless they signed and agreed to my offer. They not only failed to come to the agreement I gave them another chance to find me another car so I opted for a 355 spyder which they claimed to be in excellent condition. I drove such a long distance to look at this car and it was a pile of **it. It wasn't worth buying, it was wrecked and had mismatched red paint. I called Exotic Cars Wholesale back and they blew up on me and said " No way the cars in perfect shape, you can't find a better 355 for a better price. That was the end of me dealing with those bastards, how in hell would they know how the car looks like if they don't see what the hell the car looks like. I was overheating in anger. I tried to resolve the situation with finding another car and it simply would not work out. I wanted to talk to the president of the company and even gave him a full month to respond to at least 50 phone calls I made trying to reach him. I left messages every time and every one of them ignored. Now this sounds rediculous for any type of business to do such a thing but I can back up everything I mentioned here. My attorney even sent them a letter and they just ignored it. The situation is that they know that I'm here in California and they are in Florida, it would cost me more money in attorney fees and my time to fly down there multiple times trying to get my money back. They knew what to expect. But I want to make sure that this don't happen to anyone anymore. I've been warned from a lot of reputable dealerships about Exotic Cars Wholesales taking peoples deposit and not giving them back. But it's not just the fact they rob peoples money but they try to sell cars without knowing the history of the car they try to sell, what the hell! I know another buyer who can back me up on this and he lives in Dallas. It was coincidental how I met this guy who was in the market trying to buy a blk 348 which happened to be mine! He told me that Exotic Cars Wholesale of Ft. Lauderdale tried to sell him a blk 348 and said of many things of my car he did not even know. Well, this is all true facts and can be backed up with paperwork and witness. Even the bank who finances some of the cars Exotic Cars Wholesale sells told me that they do many crooked deals, can you believe this? These guys should all be in prison for this.. Since they screwed me badly, I would let everyone and anyone who's in the market to buy an exotic car to beware of this and not to give any business to those bastards over there and I would appreciate those who can spread the word out for me. I will send the president of the company to work out an agreement with me assuming he won't throw my letter in the garbage like he did with the attorneys' letter. I believe that if we help each other on the net to let everyone know who not to do business with this would help us from getting burned.. Thanks and Peace... | ||
| Lee Sanders (Lsand007)
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Gentlemen: Not related to free speech, but people sometimes wonder who owns the infamous Auto Toy Store. You may check their FL Dept of State Filing http://ccfcorp.dos.state.fl.us/scripts/cordet.exe?a1=DETFIL&n1=P99000070421&n2=NAMFWD&n3=0000&n4=N&r1=&r2=&r3=&r4=NEWAUTOTOYSTORE&r5= | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Nunja, contact Modman, they held his deposit back but not getting him the car. contact him for more info. | ||
| Nunja Bitness (Jaxfl)
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What did Exotic Cars Wholesale do to you guys? I thought about inquiring about some 360's until I read your posts. What's the scoop? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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I think if a person wants to air his problem that he has had with a dealer then ok and let him assume whatever repercussions come of it. I don't think it is wise to set ourselves up as judge and jury and start guessing at the facts. Things said without knowing all the facts could cause us and F.C. to be named in a lawsuit along with the individual who is knocking the dealer. Remember you don't have to be the primary to be named in a lawsuit. A good attorney will get as many as he can named to make the pot larger and give credibility to his case. I think we should be very careful, hear the complaints as they are posted, ask questions about the facts of the situation and not side one way or the other especially defaming the dealer. We still haven't heard the dealers side of the story and could be making a "BIG" mistake. We all want to help a F.C. member and give them the best advise making us feel we are doing it for a just cause and a F.C. brother. Look out because, "A Little Knowledge Can Be A Dangerous Thing." | ||
| Kevin Moore (Kevinm)
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I talked to a lawyer friend today about my idea. [His specialty is Corporate/Contract law.] He seemed skeptical of the whole idea, at first. He seems to feel that the "jury is still out" on how the courts will handle 'Internet slander' suits. He did mention however that posts backed up by hard evidence (i.e. correspondence between parties, court papers or rulings, etc.) would be very hard to attack and labelled as slander. He also went on to mention that the posting could not draw conclusions from the 'evidence' presented. (i.e. he cheats his cutomers, hence he must cheat on his wife as well.) In fact he cautioned me that no one should be allowed to draw conclusions. Just present the facts, drawing conclusions at the end of your post could lead to problems. With that said, I've read the other posts and like the idea of attacking this problem from another angle. Maybe negative posts are not the way to go. Maybe we need to point out the good dealers instead. We would just have to be careful of folks posting great reviews of dealers/vendors that are without merit. Modman: I think the guy who created that site eventually struck a deal with The Toy Store. I'm sure that one of tennants of the agreement would have been to nix the site. Kevin Albany NY '87 328GTS | ||
| Allyn (Allyn)
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If people stick to facts and opinions there is no problem. This is still America last I checked. Outright lies is the only area that could cause problems. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Jim, the negative stuff is so much fun..... | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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Why don't we just start a thread where you can recommend a place you've done business with? By choosing businesses with a lot of recommendations, you might avoid the "hall of shame" businesses altogether, and there wouldn't be any legal implications for posting negative stuff. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
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Guys, Seeing that I am a minor, I most likely couldn't serve any jail time- or anything of that nature... If you want, i can host the Wall of Shame of my site- ExoticCarNetwork.com... I think it would be kind of neat- but I do agree, you have to have evidence. What do you think? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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by God, isnt this a First Amendment Right for crying out loud! FREE SPEACH! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I'd suggest to have this hall of Shame/Fame placed on a seperate server. When a negative comment is posted the dealer will be sent an e-mail to give him the change to respond and make a counter statement. This is only fair. If the dealer can prove that the accusations are false the post will be deleted. If he just has a different opinion the post will stay with his counter post published. Actually this is fair enough to even host it here. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
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rob and the operators of this board need to make sure they clearly understand the legal liabilities of that sort of stuff. recent lawsuits seek to set some crappy precedent in holding board operators liable for slander and whatnot. quite frankly, i've been surprised to see what i've seen here thus far. doody | ||
| Howie F. (Brokerofexotics)
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I think Stu has the right idea by posting positive experiences, while at the same time avoiding legal implications for Rob and the "Chatters" (hey - that's a pretty good name for a band!) Now....introducing, in their first public appearance...Rob and the Chatters! | ||
| Neville Pugh (Nev_Pugh)
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Be careful of any possible legal implications with a hall of fame. Namely, if you slag someone off, make sure you've got cast iron proof, and stick to "they did x,y,z" rather than just "they're crap". Hall of fame's a good idea tho. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
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Kevin, I tried to go to the website regarding the Toy Store but showed up blank. Did you have the site named correctly? By the way, Exotic Cars Wholesale of Ft. Lauderdale is not a place to do business with, they burn you as soon as they get your deposit. | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
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Or, as Tim N suggested, how about a list of dealers, Ferrari authorized or not, that you have had positive experiences with. Promotes good business behavior and hepls those looking to buy find a dealer they can trust. Perhaps Tim you would like to start a new thread....? | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
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How about a hall of shame thread and a hall of fame? Example of 3 votes of dealings of each and you are on a list or off a list. A great reference for potential new buyers or service issues. could be a great quick reference?? | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
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its not a bad idea, however Rob could get some heat from others. interesting article you need to read that I've posted on the following thread: http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/21/3624.html?1006997539 on s2ki.com - yes, another site, but always tryin got stay positive - we promote and help promote dealerships that sell their cars at or below MSRP, dont force options and have great customer service and technicians. Of course, only a Honda, but if you've ever pulled an S2000 into a dealership's work area to get your car worked on, and the guy who is going to work on it says, "cool car, what is it?" You'd understand. | ||
| Kevin Moore (Kevinm)
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When I was looking for my F-car back in 99 I came across a site or two that helped me to steer clear of questionable dealers/outfits. (One guy went as far as to create a web site with the URL: TheToyStorescrewedtheirferraricustomer.com. Apparently the Toy Store screwed some guy who was a web site developer. Not a smart move on their part. He posted tons of correspondence and legal documents) In retrospect [after being burned by Exotic Cars Wholesale] I sort of wished that this resource could have been consolidated on single site. After reading some recent posts by Martin I started to think.....What are the possibilities of creating a subdirectory under Topics called "The Circle of Shame"? It would be a great benefit for folks looking to buy or service/mechanic to have this info in a single location. As always there would probably be some business concerns...Like what are the legal implications for Rob? (We should remember that Rob created this site on his own accord and does not solicit for donations) Could the legal issues/risk be mitigated by strict posting guidelines? At any rate this is just a thought. Feel free to chime in |