| Author |
Message |
wm hart (Whart)
| | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 10:51 am: | |
I think you've gotten some good advice from this thread. here's my two cents: i have straddled the 8/12 cyl. and old/newer car thing through 6 F cars in the past several years. every model has a different personality, and every particular car will vary to some degree, especially the older cars, in drive and feel (leaving aside condition, documentation, etc.) first impressions when driving may not be determinative, either: when i first drove a boxer, i thought it was impossibly uncomfortable for my 6'1" 210lb frame, until i got used to driving with the seat cranked back, in a semi-reclining position. i never found the 328 to be big enough, although the 246 dino is. (246's are gorgeous, but now overpriced, underpowered, and you will pay just as dearly for service and parts as an older 12). the gtc/4 is rarer than the daytona, and when new, was more money, but it is a big heavy thing, ugly to my eyes unless in a dark paint color to diminish the rubber bumpers. if you want big and cheap, the 365 2+2 is also an alternative, but i wouldn't want to fund ongoing ownership of that car either. Out of all the cars you mention, the 330 gtc may be the best compromise. However, the ones i've seen below, say 70k, were either pretty tatty or repainted/"restored" in a questionable way. there are no bargains in this world; what may be cheap to buy now, may prove to be horrendous to maintain later. given the market for the cars you are talking about (downward, rather than upward prices), the key, aside from fitting into the damn thing, and whether you like it (why buy a car you don't really lust after) should be its condition and history. |
Scott Amis (Jsa3)
| | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 10:17 am: | |
Check out the 365GTC/4 on ebay. It looks nice. |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2002 - 1:18 pm: | |
Solly, thats great news!, The 246 really is the car I want. Have you ever been in a hard top car as opposed to your GTS car? was there enough head room? I've only sat in a 246GTS myself.
Fred |
Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 6:33 pm: | |
Fred-
I'm a bit over 6"4" and large-framed. I own a 246 Dino GTS and it has an amazing amount of legroom for such a small car. I am very comfortable in it, even for 3-4 hour trips. I have driven the 308/328/348/550/456 and 360, and only the 360 has similar legroom, the others are too small. Never drove a Daytona or 365 GTC so I don't know how much room they have. The 365 GT 2+2 is a personal favorite, and I am looking for one now. Never drove one, but sat in it and with the seat back it appears comfortable, but, as mentioned above, they are becoming more desirable and are hard to find.
IMHO a 246 GT (hardtop) is a good value in the $50-70,000 range (for a good example). The GTS prices are a good bit higher, and while I love driving with the top off in summer, I'm not sure it was worth an extra $30,000.
Try out a 246 if you like the styling. Remember that it is a bit underpowered compared to the V-8 and V-12 models, and needs to be run at high RPM to get the most out of it, but it is a blast to drive. |
Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 3:43 pm: | |
Why stop @ One? |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2002 - 11:20 am: | |
Billb,
Thanks for the clarification on the Daytona, they are really great cars but they are out of the price range I'm trying to stay at. Perhaps if prices on all Ferraris keep coming down then it might make it feasible to get one.
Fred |
William Badurski (Billb)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 6:18 pm: | |
The post about the heads and carbs being different between the C4 and Daytona is correct. The Daytona uses 6 down-drafts versus the side drafts of the C4. This was the reason for the lower HP rating of the C4. The post stating the drivetrains are the same is incorrect. The C4 uses a forward mounted gearbox, as compared to the Daytona's rear mounted transaxle. The driveability of the Daytona is more difficult in terms of steering effort due to the lack of power steering, not deemed appropriate for a sports car at the time. The C4 utilizes a power assist on a similar steering linkage.
I've owned three Daytonas, raced one for several years, and love them. All Ferraris are great, but this one's my personal favorite. It's a handful at times, but rewarding once you've gained the experience. And the sound... second to none.
Bill Badurski
Technical Chairman
Ferrari Club of America |
Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 5:39 pm: | |
Hey, I saw one in Ferrari of Denver. 6 monhs ago. Red with black interior. (very pretty)approx $65k? |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 3:19 pm: | |
Great article, Thanks!
I was quite surprised at the site comparing the 456 whith the 365GTC/4. I'm going to keep looking for a nice used one. The One Sheehan had has been sold. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 2:11 pm: | |
The 365GTC4 is a great car. However, maintenance will be very high for the car's value. It has Weber side draft carbs. which most be removed to change the spark plus. And remember, old Ferrari V12s require valve adjustments every 8,000 miles per Ferrari. |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 1:58 pm: | |
Fred,
Check out this site. It is a GTC/4 buyers guide that was published in FORZA. Beautiful car but the article seems to suggest that parts are hard to come by.
http://www.theautochannel.com/publications/magazines/forza/number11/index.html |
Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 1:42 pm: | |
Yes.
Out of all those mentioned, I have to say I like the GTC/4 best. The 365 GT 2+2 is a great car, if you can find one. Aww heck, I like them all. I just want a 250 LM, a 375MM and a F50 and I'll be fine. |
John Delvac (Johndelvac)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 1:34 pm: | |
Wait a minute. There are so many 330's and 365's that I'm confusing myself now. I'll try to straighten things out a bit.
A 365GT4 2+2 looks like a 400.
A 365GTC4 is the one with the black rubber nose (which is why it's a Ferrari bargain). This one is most like a Daytona.
A 365GT 2+2 and a 330GTC look sorta similar. These are the cars I think you are asking about.
A 330GT 2+2 looks similar to an Aston Martin DB4, well if it's silver anyway.
visit: www.ferrari.com for photos & specs of most models. |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 12:54 pm: | |
Willis and John,
Thank you for finally tellimg me something about the reason why these cars were priced so differently. I kept thinking that there had to be some mechanical reason such as a lot of problems or something to kill the 365GTC/4 prices. I gues that model is doing a lot better than the 365GT 2+2 which I've seen for sale in the 30's for not a bad one. Any sites to get good info on 365GTC/4s? |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 11:46 am: | |
As I understand it, the 512TR was over 80 percent new from the Testarossas before it. |
John Delvac (Johndelvac)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 11:34 am: | |
Q: Why does a 365GTC/4 cost less?
A: They have back seats.
Same story with the 330GT 2+2, 308GT4, the 400/412, and even the 456. Many consider cars with back seats not to be true sports cars. Of course the 911 throws a wrench in that theory.
Then there are always the little things. Take the 308GT4 for example. First, it was badged a "Dino". A resale killer off the bat. Second, it was not designed by Pininfarina - strike two. But put a back seat in it and watch the demand plummit. A shame too, since it's so easy to work on, handles better than a 308 and has a more comfortable driving position. In any case, this car's resale problem probably exasterbated (I love that word) the back seat delimma for other ferraris.
Another reason is because the Daytona has a bit of racing history.
Changes from year to year make silly cost differences too. Like a $100K difference between a 275B and its 4-cam younger brother, or $10K more if your 328 is an '89 with ABS (and ugly wheels). Of examples like these, the $50 more to buy a 512TR over an '85-'87 Testarossa is probably the most frustrating. I know the red head's front air dam is a bit hard to manage, but does the 512TR really have $50K worth of other improvements?
My next reason is also a guess. Many of those who might have desired a 365 GTC/4 in the past were actually impressed by the 400. Even though we are not as impressed with the styling now, it was innovative and Enzo's personal favorite at the time.
I personally love all 365 variations and think you should go for it. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 11:29 am: | |
What can be said of the 365 GTC/4? The styling was not as exciting or sexy as the Daytona. Weird rubber nose. It's slightly down on power from the Daytona. It doesn't have any racing history. The Daytona was raced. No limited covertible version like the Daytona. Limited media exposure. I think that's why they're not revered like a Daytona thus the lower value. |
Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 11:12 am: | |
As someone said earlier in this thread, the 308/328 series may be a much tighter fit if you are 6'2" or taller. If you are height challenged, like me, then they are indeed great cars! I also love the lines on the 330, great car! |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 10:47 am: | |
I like the looks of the 308/328 series cars and they seem like great bargains for the amount of car that you get, perhaps I should look into one as well. Not knowing much about Ferraris I still don't understand why the 365GTC/4 is priced so low compared to same vintage cars, can anyone take a crack at an explanation on that one for me?
TIA |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2002 - 10:41 am: | |
I'll jump on the 330 bandwagon too, I considered one when I was shopping for my 328. Maybe the 330 will be the 2nd car in the collection. |
Richelson (Richelson)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 5:04 pm: | |
I think a 330 would be a good choice. I think they look great. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 4:14 pm: | |
Go with the 330GTC. It is a great car and much less expensive to maintain than the 365GTB/4 Daytona. |
DBP (Dilly)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 4:02 pm: | |
Daytonas in the Market Letter are listed between $105,000 and $150,000. Of course, these are just asking prices and I have not heard of anyone buying a Daytona in some time. |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 3:39 pm: | |
I was looking at the differences in between the Daytona and the GTC/4 and it seems to me that the Daytonas power curve is a litlle different from the GTC/4; however, I still don't understand why one is so much more expensive that the other? I also seem to tend to like the looks of the GTC/4 better than the Daytona but the Daytona is supposed to be more aggresive, somehow harder to drive. I haven't driven either so I don't know what the difference is. Is the difference due to Miami Vice or is one a better car than the other? What about the GTC/4 that Mike Sheehan lists, Is he a reputable dealer? would you trust him?
Thanks again and good to see I'm not the onlu one goofing off at work!
I'll try Shelton, I just bought a Range Rover from them a couple of weeks ago and they were pretty good. |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 3:19 pm: | |
Ask for Benn Correale at Shelton Sports cars & tell him I sent you. I bought my 512TR from him 2 years ago, He is a very nice guy |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 3:11 pm: | |
GTC/4 have different heads with six side-draft carbs.. The lower end of the engine is the same as the Daytona |
Ken (Allyn)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 3:07 pm: | |
Not to pick nits but the Daytona engine is not the same as the 364 GTC although they're almost the same; I forget what the differences are; they're minor but not insignificant. I'll check if anyone's intrested and report back tomorrow. (I'm just proud I knew that!*S*) |
TomD (Tifosi)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 3:02 pm: | |
here is one you might consider. It is in the town I grew up in. Us NJ guys could take a road trip and check it out for you.
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/3/7/1707737.htm |
Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:58 pm: | |
365GtC/4 much prettier than the Daytona, (love the hood) but look out! as soon as Nika reads this, wo wo wo , we are gonna be in a world of hurt. She loves the Daytona, better get out of her way. |
Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:49 pm: | |
I agree with Peter. The 365 GTC/4 is a wonderful car. The sound of that car is good enough the cause addiction. I have driven GTC/4s and GTBS (Daytonas), and the Daytona is a tiny bit faster. Otherwise they have the same drivetrain. Terrific cars for ultra high speed highway travelling. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:45 pm: | |
The 365 GTC/4 is a much better car than the Daytona (literally the same engine, power steering, easier shifting, roomier) and for half the price. This will really start a battle, but I think the C/4 looks BETTER than a Daytona. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:35 pm: | |
There is somebody here that just bought one for $ 70s or 80s.
Who was that? |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:21 pm: | |
Are you speaking about the Daytona 365GTB/4? I think they are around 120k for those. They sound great though, maybe if I keep looking I may find something I can afford. Any suggestions where to look? is the one you were looking at still available? |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:17 pm: | |
In the 70s you can find nice Daytonas.
Newer cars like Testarossa and I am 6<'4'' as well and fit okay in a 348. 308 and 328s are a little tighter.
With 4 seaters you have usually better options on getting a seat further back even make a change to get the seat moved back further at noch much expense. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:14 pm: | |
I had a great 365GT4 lined up.
Sweet car and great value. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:13 pm: | |
ops, posted at the same moment... |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:12 pm: | |
Fred,
what price range R U looking in?
Martin |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:11 pm: | |
sorry forgot to write that I'm not rich so I'm looking for something in the 60s 70s or less if at all possible otherwise i would definitely buy a 275GTB! what a sweet car!
see you,
Fred |
Fred Guido (Fredg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2002 - 2:09 pm: | |
Hi everyone! Great site. I wonder if you can help me. I am interested in findind an older Ferrari to buy as my "pride and joy car". I love the the 246GT/S but I think I may be too big for one (I'm 6'4"), so the 12 cylinder cars seem to be for me. I went to a couple of local dealers and they showed me a 512BBi, nice car but not my cup of tea, 330GTC really liked that one, what else is there that you can suggest as a good reliable car on the older Ferrari's, I see a few 365GTC/4 advertised for what seems to bwe a steal? what is the problem with those cars?. Most importantly, can anyone suggest a reputable person or company to buy from. I am a litlle afraid of buying an old Ferrari after reading so much about problems with them.
TIA
Fred in South Florida |
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