| Author | Message | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
|
LOL, good one. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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My IQ is over 160 ! I did two test one with 85 and one with 93, so my IQ is WAY over... Who is tracking me.... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Well said Art. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
William: The guy that figured out that if you seperated an electron from the proton when it combined with another atom, figured out that you could get a great amount of energy (Einstein). That idea had the potential to make human life very, very good. However, because a madman was threatening the world, the government decided that the first application of that idea was a bomb. Smart people generally think of things. The rulers, who generally aren't all that smart, think of how to pervert that science into something that they can use, like weapons. In replubic like this one, we allow it. An execellent example of that is the "ballistic missile defense shield". No one really thought that through to a logical conclusion: the people against us will merely build up their missiles to overcome the defense, leaving us in a more dangerous environment than before. The politicians are going that way because the populace doesn't understand it, and they can gain an advantage. No one seems to care that we the people end up in a worse position, only that it leads to more votes for them. I guess what I am saying is that education doesn't help if they don't teach how to think. Thinking is a difficult process. In my 57 years here, it has taken me a long time to learn that process, and I don't think that I have gotten there yet. I don't think I need more education, but I wish I could learn to think more clearly. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Because not everyone in this world wants peace. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Arthur thats good news, the bad news is that over 75% of the world's geniuses r enlisted to create new weapons  Why cant they b enlisted to create Peace? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
Is that the bastards that have been hounding me all these years? I thought that I was just paranoid. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
|
William: I just noticed your 1st post on this chat. In that you wish that the government could spot the very bright, etc. I hate to tell you this but they do now, and have done so since the 40s. If you score over 160 on an IQ test, the results are sent to the national government in Washington, and they keep track of you. While I believe that the IQ tests don't really test intelligence, this is how the government keeps track of those that are really bright. I know this from personal experience. As part of that program you are offered special assistance if you need financial help, etc. Since there are only about 3000 people in the US with an IQ that high it is fairly easy for them to keep track of those that score that well. It should be noted that while everyone complains about the US's education, our national physics team and national math teams score 1 or 2 in the world every year. Our government doesn't much care about the masses, but takes very good care of the very, very bright. Art | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
|
That is crazy, I hope that doesn't happen. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
Something related to education: I was letting the TV watch me this morning and CNN was on. The story that made me drop my Car and Driver mag was the one where state governments are asking for the same type of laws and powers that the federal government has for their own state in order to fight terrorism. This can be a scary thought. Now, who will question it? Who will just take it blindly and know that it is for the better since Sept. 11...if we let it go too far, will we even have a chance to question it in the future? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Michael, After looking at this again I see that you don't like the word "basics" and how I use it and I don't like the word "fundamental" and how you used it. Different folks different strokes. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Michael, Our educational problem is very big. You are talking about college graduates who don't muster up to your requirements. I am not talking about anything that far up in education as college. Some don't get out of highschool and some do and neither can read or write. So our views here are different in that you are looking at the broad spectrum and I am looking at the root of the problem to begin where all this educational screwup starts. As for the "fundamental rights" issue what you are saying then is the rights have a fundamental meaning. When I read your comments it came across to me that rights are just fundamental and that's as far as it goes. My answer was that peoples rights in this country are more than just fundamental. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Magoo, we are sort of talking around each other,because I do not believe that the basics are the problem (they are absolutely necessary but the goals from the beginning must be to teach way beyond the "basics". That's makes a huge difference because if your goal is higher you actually teach the "basics" very differently -- more integrated). One of my companies sees college sudents all the time that we would not go next to with a 10 foot pole. They have all the "basics" and then much more but are dumb as posts. I by dumb I mean they do not know how to compute and anaylze new and different situations. The problem is they have the "basics" but do not fundamentally know how to integrate the knowledge learned by using the basics. They can read, they can add, they can write but are too dumb to notice how they get reamed tax wise so they vote a guy into office that continually raises taxes and then they wonder why two parents must continually work their butts off just to raise two kids. They never realize that they are creating their own problem -- hey but boy can they read, write and add. I agree the "basics" are necessary but those skills should be "givens" in the system -- our education problem is bigger than that. Michael | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
|
WHat does the Govt want in education ? Isnt it obvious? They want what all govts want, an ignorant, easily manipulated, subservient worker class that isnt educated enough to question them. Its what govts have wanted since the time of the Pharoahs. TV, movies & pop culture sure help a lot, They serve the same function as the Coliseum in the days of the Roman Emperors, entertain the masses so they dont revolt & kill the "Leaders" | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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I don need no steenking Edumacation  | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Michael, The last part of your statement is what I have been saying. These kids today who come out of high school, if they make it that far, don't even have the "Basics." We seem to be talking about two different things. I don't want a sub-standard education for them I want to start getting back to the basics,the3 Rs. Like the word "basics" or not the problem is that many of these kids can't even read in the 12th grade. The foundation was never taught. I would say that we missed teaching the basics somewhere along the line. First things first. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
|
Education also exposes you to many new ideas etc. I think that going to the right college is the most important factor. I don't mean Harvard or Yale but the right college for the individual that you are. I went to 3 Universities. One was a decent school the other was horrible and made me resent education. The last school I attended was perfect for me. New doors were opened in my mind. The instructors always had plenty of time to help and the class sizes were fairly small too. Even if you don't use your degree it is worth having it. For a few reasons. One, to fall back on in case what you are currently doing doesn't work out. Two, your education is something no one can take away from you. Three, it exposes you to many new ideas/thoughts and makes what I feel to be a more well-rounded individual. I would rather be exposed to a lot of material knowing what I enjoy and what I don't rather than not to know what it is like at all. I think Education and College is very important. If it wasn't for the PreMed Physics I took I wouldn't be able to repair/work on my 308 as I do now. It taught me to critically think and to really practice understanding conceptual ideas. It was one of the best courses I have ever taken in my life. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
|
Education simply opens doors. Higher levels open more doors and offer more opportunities, but guarantee nothing. I think there just as many less educated successes out there as there are highly educated failures. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Magoo, as for the Rights thing you mention. I don't get your point. Without rights that have fundamental meanings all we end up with is a society that designs laws "tit for tat" -- that's just the slow way to develop anarchy. You obviously disagree with how our Constiution gets interpreted as you say it gets interpreted wrong. Well, I might agree with you on that -- how can a jury on one peers interpret something that they were never taught or that they do not understand? Back to my mandatory American History and US Constitution class idea. Michael | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Magoo, Please reread my statements -- I never ever said the basics were not important nor did I ever imply they were not necessary, so I do not believe a missed any point. What I said was we need people who can think critically and analytically. To get to that level, reading and writing and strong mathematics are a must, but the 3 R's are no panacea either. In most of the country even people who can do math are still innummerate. That's why a politician can call an increase a cut and get people to vote for him. That's why a politician can use class warfare and say the rich do not pay their fair share, yet the math show the top 20% pays over 80% of the taxes. That's why it is OK to tell people a corporation is too rich and should be taxed more but no one remembers that corporation employs 5,000 people. So when it is taxed more and cuts jobs no one can figure out why. Each years revenue is finite, either you pay taxes or pay people, but try explaining that to the average person. The 3 R's are fine but its the intellectual connections that can be made with the 3 R's that make the difference. Also I get worrried when I hear the word "basics" -- what a low goal to set for our children. Let's leave basic to others and create some highly skilled thinkers who can create with the best in any environment and yes, that implicitly must include the 3 R's. Michael | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
I think it was Nika who said "It is better to be a happy Garbage man then a unhappy CEO." Makes sense to me. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Ed, This is what I have being saying. Give them the basics and see that when they leave highschool they are able to at least do the 3R's. After that I say " water seeks it's own level." Those who want to go on will and those who choose not to won't. Sounds too simple for some who want to make it a bigger problem than it is. These students in the elementary and high school years have to be educated to at least be compatible with society in this country. And yes not everyone can be a Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief. Not everyone wants to. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
I agree, David. I've been guilty of that a few times, I'll admit. It shut me right up and humbled me- I should know better, I came from a small town and family of working class people. What the hell was I thinking?!!! | ||
| david schirmer (David)
|
Ed, it has taken this long for me to see your point. I understand what you are saying, and I agree that people should not look down on so-called less desireable jobs. First of all, one can make pretty good money in the trades, believe me I know guys that make way more than I do in what would be considered a less glamourous job. Second point I would like to make is that these guys are some of the most genuine decent people I have known. Third point is that I have known people in the trades that are far more intelligent than some of the college grads that I run across. I still think we need to resolve our educational crisis though. I would rather raise the overall level of intelligence of our population. For example, our contributor Peter who opted out of college, is obviously an intelligent and clever person who has chosen to work a trade and is now considering advancing his skills through further education. This way we will have a higher skilled tradesman which will be a benefit to everyone. I suppose I could have used you as another example for that matter. To sum it up, we have two problems here. A poor education system and a perception that "lesser" jobs are not important. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
This is my point. Everyone is being told to study hard and get a good education, but the fact is that someone is going to have to do the dirty work and everyone cannot be number 1. In the NFL or College sports, every week 50% of the teams are going to loose and if they don't win they are ready to fire the management when in fact you cannot win every game and every student is not going to be a CEO and some are going to have to dig ditches. I believe it is necessary for people to accept that it will seek it's own level and quit downgrading those left to do the less desireable jobs. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
I've noticed many of the things that are being said. Every kid thinks they're gonna be rich and wants to be, which is STUPID. The other thing that I find interesting is that these kids are being educated in the wrong direction in many cases. They can do XYZ homework problems but they lack the more common knowledge that is necessary to get around. My town has a very strong stress on education (one of the best schools in the nation) and success, but kids from other towns often times seem to be more disillusioned when it comes to money. I don't come from a very educated family, at least not college educated. My dad was successful cause he was quick on his feet and started companies and all, not because he came from the class of ... and got an internship or something. My mom speaks a whole bunch of languages and learned all the business skills she has from growing up in post WWII Germany. For the most part though, you need to go to college if you want to have a better shot of making more money. But like Peter said, it isn't for everyone (I know half a dozen of my dad's workers that feel the same way as Peter and did the same thing, they make good money doing iron work and are happy). | ||
| david schirmer (David)
|
Regarding the US educational system: My sister was a teacher in public schools for around 10 years. She taught in a few different school systems. Some of them were in not so nice areas where high school was the end of the line for 90% of the students. One thing that she noticed was that students that were pretty good in her class were completely different in a different class. There were gang members that were disruptive and feared in math class that wrote great essays in her English class. In other words, the teacher had a great effect on how the student performed. A challenging teacher will motivate the student to learn and perform. She found that there were many teachers that were just putting in their time and the students recognize this and perform accordingly. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
...and I forgot to add....LANGUAGE! English is not the only language in the world. We have two foreign languages to learn. English being always the first then you can choose. Spanish, French or any other that may be offered on a school. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Aha, my 2nd favorite topic (right after Religion ) Growing up in Germany, going through the german school system with an equivalent College degree I have observed many faults in this system here. I have never been a good student. My average was below average and since 1st grade I have only managed to get by each year never made a clean pass into the next grade. My poor parents.. Grades no not make or break a person. Grades do not guarantee success or failure. Knowledge does! It is a poor education system not by how many people go to College and get a Phd but by what kids know when they graduate. Ask them which continent Romania is on, what neighboring state is to Bosnia and point it out on a map. Recide world history and that is not 1796 and younger but the Roman empire and its downfall. How far did the Romans go and what they "invented" that we still use in our daily lifes. Things that have changed mankind. The US battles are important for heritage and patiotism but the world and its understanding is the grounds for knowledge and educated discussions. I have met many people througout the world. Americans (generalized) are the most uneducated when it comes to geography, history and world politics. That peoblem is not from a lack of interest but a lack of education. This needs to be changed. Another reason I see for why education is critical is the growing criminality in the country. The reason why there is so much more violent crimes in the US than in any other nation is simple: Access to weapons is easy and if you had a bad education you are guaranteed to fail in social life. (This is very much simplified but going into detail here would bust Robs server ) Failure to teach values by parents and teachers does not help so it becomes more easy for people to just pick up a gun and rob a convenient store or shoot somebody on the street for his/her purse with $100 in it. All you have to do in court is blame it on your fatehr and that you have been abused and the prosecution will cut you a deal. Education is the key to the future of this country. The new proposed plan is just a baby step in the right direction. Nothing to really speak of though. What needs to be done is fire those teachers that do not cut it. If they are not fit for the job and do their job right fire them. No ifs and buts, no labor discussions. We all would do the same in our company. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
Now that I had my moring dose if Diet Pepsi at 5:25 am PST, Case in point: When I was 17, I stated work for this company where the CEO was the trainer. He asked us about our futures and asked us what motivated us to choose our careers. When he pointed to me in his best hand gesticulating motivational speaker impression (except he was for real), I answered "Doctor, perhaps a cardiologist or surgeon". He then asked "Why?" I started to answer because I love science and helping people...." then he cuts me out by yellling "WRONG ANSWER!!!" and he did it to everyone in the room- with intense convcition (oh my?!) and concluded by saying "The reason why you want to do it is because you want to make MONEY!!! No other reason, but MONEY!" He then started to talk about how he came from a poor country and within a year of coming to America he made his first million dollars because he was motivated by money. What a putz!!! His bratty kid would come in now and then, flirt with the admin assistants, talk like a "player", had nice clothes but the s**t spewing from his mouth just reeked of "spoiled brat" and his CEO pops would talk to him like he was a nobody yet buy him all this crap and I remember one time he punished him by taking away his tricked out car. The kid was 19!!! fer chrisakes and had no interest in an education- or tact, refinement, need for social/crtical thinking skills because he was riding on the coattails of his rich pops....and all the giggly "dumb" girls were impressed by his "$" looks and talk. I thought I was an outsider for feeling disdain and seeing right thorough that phony crap!! But everyone, and I mean everyone there quickly fell into the "corporate culture" with fake "How ya doings" and "Great work" until you have a rough sales day and they make you feel like sh*t. On my last day (thank God it was only a summer job while I was in college), I was given a "thank you for your service and we'll make you feel bad for leaving and not wanting to make money" speech. And this was classic....The sales manager timed it so when he was speaking to me, he received a phone call on his desk while he was talking to me...slid the paycheck across is big cherry wood desk, swiveled around in his leather chair turned his back to me and got heavily involved with the conversation on the phone, turned around real quick to see if I was still there, and motioned at me to leave. WTF!!! I think only smart (any way you define it), sensible, people with true value and skills who are not only motivated by money should actually earn money. People who see the value in their trade and have a real conviction and lack an overbearing degree of selfishness...I'm just a born pessimist that is too idealistic....oh dammit!!!! LOL | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
|
It's not just something we can blame administrators and boards about. Like I was trying to say earlier, younger people today have a lack of understanding upon the "MEANING" of a good education. Most of them feel it is going through a means to an end, again without realizing the true "MEANING". Funny when I say that to many young people they always feel that earning money is the "most" important thing...do you see the inherent problem in that? A way to fulfill immediate materialistic wants and needs whatever the cost: Turning to Joe/Jackie Corporate yes sirs/mams and being compensated big earnings for doing so....where is the "MEANING" in that?!?!?!?! Okay, okay extreme example...but do you see my point? | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Magoo, just wanted to let you know that I will respond. I am leaving for the airport now as I will be in NYC and Cleveland today. I will respond when I return. Michael | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
I've noticed kids in school today cannot do long-division, they don't know their multiplication tables, can't string a sentence together, etc... How do you expect these kids to develop later in life when their foundation is like this? I too probably wouldn't have dropped-out if I didn't jump into it right after high-school. It is a requirement though in Quebec, to prepare the students for university (courses and times like Univ. except lighter weight in content). This place just ends up being a parking lot for the students. It didn't help either that there was a pub down the street... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Also Michael, Rights are never fundemental to anyone in this democratic society. They are foremost and many times are interpreted incorrectly as to what our constitution says. This is a big problem in this country and we are going to have to give up a lot of our rights because they will eventually be re-written as to what is black or white. We won't be able to accept the words of our constitution for what it was meant to be. Good example, Change the name of the Washington Redskins because it offends someone. There are redskinned people in this country,black skinned people, yellow skinned people, white skinned people. Should we call them the Washington White Skins? I promise I won't get "pissed" off | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Michael, I think that you are missing the important part. The formative years of the children of our educational system have to learn the basics. This is the foundation of future education. I agree that our tax dollars are being wasted on a system that is going in the wrong direction. Privatize is a good idea because it isn't working at the present. But my point is whatever course you take the younger elementary and highschool students need to be taught a solid foundation of the basics of the 3 R's. It is a beginning because a lot of these kids can't read and they are in high school. Hello, there is a problem. Otherwise we are jumping ahead of ourselves and not realizing where the problem lies. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
David, I think you hit the nail on the head there with those 3 concepts hat should be encouraged and taught. Lets face it some things need to mandatory that's the only way a real foundation is built -- like mandatory reading, math etc. But one more -- a mandatory American History class every year and complete working knowledge of the Constitution. I am tired of people making up a "right" when they have a problem but the school system encourages this by their arcane rules making procedures. Rights are supposed to be fundamental in nature not fixes to dynamic problems (that's what the legislative branch is for). If they learned the Constitution, kids would get that very clearly and stop this whining crap. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Magoo, I think the link is very clear. I get property taxed heavily so we can invest in schools. I am forced to invest in a failing business/structure. I see it as wasting a lot of money every year yet people vote the same people in the school boards and get the same result for 10, 20, now 30 plus years in a row. WE as society should be highly angry about this mandated waste that occurs every year. People had a choice to work or not work for Enron. Investors had a choice to buy their stock and corporate bonds. There may be some fraud involved but the point is people had more choice dealing wih Enron than we ever have with the public school system -- That should make one angry. If I told you could buy Enron stock in September then told you could not sell and would take a loss if it dropped -- you would decline. I don't see how you are doing anything different with the money you give the school system today given the end product. Whatever your share of taxes that go to schools that's 100% in and 40% out -- that's a loss. At least as an outside investor I could have sold my Enron stock in October -- no such choice with the school system -- I think we should be angry about that. | ||
| david schirmer (David)
|
Michael, I agree with the follow the leader problem. How can we get some "seasoning" without leading people around by the nose. Perhaps if the earlier years of education were spent learning logic, reasoning, questioning etc. then the service portion after graduation would be spent putting these concepts to work. You would be testing your wings as a young adult and having your first successes and failures. Then, you could go on to a higher learning institution and probably be more focused on getting learning rather than getting higher! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Well rounded, The basic education in the elementary and high school years. What do you want? The 3 R's. These are neccessary to develop children to survive in our society. Nowdays they don't get that. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Michael, Rightfuly so the people who are upset about Enron are those who have lost, "A lot of money!" 401ks and retirement plans are what they are upset about. Everyones problem is bigger to them then the next guy, but these people lost a lot. So I don't see the correlation of the two topics. No I didn't have any money invested with them. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Magoo, define "well-rounded" | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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I think that "water seeks its own level." Having said that I feel that we should concentrate on educating our youngsters through elementary and high school with the skills they need for a well rounded education. After that they can choose what they want to be and want to do. You cannot direct a person beyond a certain point. I believe that in the formative years we should be directly involved in giving them every educational option available. After that they choose where and who they want to be. Like I said "water seeks its own level." You cannot be your brothers keeper. Life will adjust accordingly this way and just like Ed. says, everyone cannot be a college graduate. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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David, No mandatory service for me. All you would create is the same system of "follow the leader" you have now but you will just feel better about it because it seems noble. Noble is nice but we are talking about creating citizens of a dynamic society and that takes the freedom to think outside the box and run with it. The peace corps and any other mandate like that is just another box. I just don't see how it would help in the long run. If someone wants it by choice OK, mandate -- for me -- no. My 2 cents. Michael | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
|
David, Very good observations. I, too, should have took some time off between high school and college. I didn't have any focus at all and just wanted to get out as soon as possible. I think a refresher type courses should be offered for getting people ready for college. My senior year in high school was a blur (too much partying) even though I got all As. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Well those were my positions but I should also have added that the first place I would start is to "privatize" the school system. Before people go nuts, I am not saying give to a company willy nily and have them run the show. I mean simply, like any board of a company that fails to produce, public school boards do not have the RIGHT to exist (yes I mean dump the vote in the school board part of the civil system and make them appointed positions). If you don't produce students who can read (we have 40% illiteracy rate in most cities) then see ya!! Imagine a business spending 300 billion a year with a 40% product reject rate. Its interesting that people are all upset about Enron but we short change taxpayers and children in schools to the tune of 120 bilion wasted dollars per year and nobody seems to care. | ||
| david schirmer (David)
|
Great comments Michael. Rob, knowing the environment at Babson, I see where you are coming from. I remember visiting the dean of students after I had graduated. I told him that I was working for a start up engineering firm. I was doing a whole lot of fascinating (to me ) work and really enjoying my life. He started asking me about if I had an equity position etc. Very business school. I kind of felt that he was missing the point. The biggest regret I have in my colorful career in education is that I didn't take some time out between high school and college. I went into college with no focus and I didn't really want to be there. I wanted to be working and college in my early years was a complete waste of time. Just a radical thought. What if some sort of service was mandatory between high school and college. This could be military or civilian like Peace Corps. Would this help create focused, useful individuals or does focus come with maturity which comes with age and experience? | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
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I agree with Michael, we need a system that produces students who can think and solve problems. I don't think college is for everyone and it is not(nor shoud it be) a cure-all for economic woes. It can be a wonderful foundation and environment if you utilize it. Couple that with practical experience and you have a winning combination. If schools could inculcate one thing to students, I would have it be the willingness to take risks. Without risk you have nothing and without having tasted failure you cannot truly enjoy the feast. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Man, this one may break the record. WTC and Religion here we come! Michael, you're right on the money. I did the college and MBA thing, but they're basically useless in my view. However, the environments they put me in were worth everything. Those environments don't have to be on a college campus though. I learned discipline, hard work, and being a team player on the swim team. I built social skills partying. I expanded my open mind by being in a diverse environment. I learned more about business actually running one on campus and playing poker at night more so than in the classroom. When it comes down to it after being through college and being secure in my profession... I might be happier just wrenching Ferraris all day. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I think now there arent too many screw ups. Im telling you, my school has its share and its a good school. If you go one town over i bet not more than 5 kids have a future, sorry bastards. They are all too busy going to the tanning salon, putting gel in their hair and trying to act like guidos. (talk about fake, in case you couldnt tell i hate those kids) | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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The key is not graduation or years of formal school etc -- what we need is people who can think. Who can think critically and analytically. People who can solve a problem they have never seen before just by the ability to recognize snippets of a pattern. We need people who are not afraid to engage in intelletual discourse just because they are too linked to their ideas. The school system has personalized the school experience to the point where to disagree with someone can get you sued. That will not foster creativity, it will effectively shut it down before it begins. We need a school system where saying "I feel" DOES NOT constitute automatically a valid argument. Just becuase you "feel it" does not mean now you are absovled of your responsibility to provide valid empirical evidence or at least supportable theories for your position. We need people to think that taking a risk in business is something everyone should try at least once. Along William's genuis point, think of the great ideas that never get produced because people are thought to grow up and work for a company instead of to "create" the company. What we need is to produce what created this country -- thinking individuals who do not roll over and whine at the first hint of failure but who after losing come back bigger, better, smarter and wiser. We have the land - the western Frontier fight was won 200 years ago, what we need is to get back to developing people who are also constantly creating new frontiers for the mind and then build great companies and communities from those ideas. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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I wsih we could somehow identify geniuses & sponsor them through school. Can you imagine how many genius minds we waste every year cus of poverty or lack of access to Universities ? Imagine how many geniuses r working as clerks now | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I'm a college drop-out. ...But then I went to Trade-school and had success immediately finding a job. I enjoy what I do, sometimes the work is s---ty (I literally mean it), but it pays well and in the end I'm happy. That's what counts. I worked in an office once in my life and knew right from then it wasn't for me. So many of my friends have college and/or university degrees and some are either stuck now in dead-end jobs, or a few have none at all. The trades are dying for people.... I'm even thinking of going back part-time for machining (to compliment my welding/fabricating skills). But society has a stigma towards blue-collar work, that all of us are knuckle-draggers and can't read-or-write. That's why no one wants to do this kind of work. | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
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Improved education? I don't know how they expect to fix this up. Education may be a start but I still believe there is a growing sense of disillusion, apathy, and carelessness regarding the direction younger people feel this country is supposed to go. Quick fixes, short attention span, too much materialistic wants, too much media influence, and too much useless information takes pecedence. It seems that youths today feel the need for escapism rather than facing reality. However, a lot of them do grow out of it; but the ones who do, don't grow out of it completely. It's a whole cornucopia of issues besides these. I think education reform may hit the core of the problem with precision but not with accuracy. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I got into a discussion today at work about the National as well as State leaders stressing the need for improved education. I cannot seem to find out what their goals are or how we will know when we reach them. Do they want everyone to graduate College? If that happened it would totally upend the food chain. No one would want or expect to work at menial jobs anymore. We are already giving most of these jobs to immigrants, legal or not. I personally think our education system is OK now. X number of people are going to drop out and do the lower paying jobs and I believe it is a necessary element. Ideas? |