| Author | Message | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2101 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tim, I have two Challenge Cars highly modified here in Miami. A 348 Challenge, which has some majoy engine work and is super fast. You can pick this one up for $ 60,000 or less. Possibly $55K and from the same owner a 355 Challenge Car that was raced in the Challenge series also with great modifications, about $ 100,000 worth plus spare parts. You can pick this one up for $ 90,000 or less.   | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 158 Registered: 11-2001 |
When you create throttle induced oversteer you do have to get off the throttle to stop the wheels from spinning. Then you reapply throttle to get weight to the back and get traction. Increase throttle as the car catches so it smoothes in and doesn't whip out on you. If you get oversteer from just cornering or using too much brakes in a corner and lightening up the rear you have to add throttle to get weight to the back. It's a finesse thing. You can't beat skid car practice to learn good reflexes. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 147 Registered: 2-2001 |
The amount of throttle applied is going to depend on the amount of slip angle desired for a particular section of track. Car control, basic principles aside, is largely intuitive, I think. And so is often more effectively learned through practice than discussion, IMO. That said, abruptly coming off the throttle in a cornering scenario will unload the suspension and thus would perhaps only be a part of the plan were there to be a need for more sudden and rapid rotation of the car, or in a situation where control had already been lost and stopping the car seems a sensible next step. Keep in mind, I'm not an instructor. Just another voice on the internet. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1611 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think I agree with you Chris, I haven't thought about it to that level. I just know that autocrossing and club racing that the throttle is always my friend when it starts oversteering. I find that I induce oversteer often on purpose, because I'm confident I can catch whenever needed with the throttle. | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Junior Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 89 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks for the input - I'm not trying to belabor the issue here, but I'm still a little confused. I thought if the oversteer is induced by too much throttle (ie: a power oversteer), that lifting quickly and gently off the throttle while, of course, turning into the skid and waiting to correct for the counter as mentioned previously is the correct technique. Too much throttle, or getting on the throttle too quickly can cause oversteer, so why continue to add throttle? I just finished the Bondurant course a couple weeks ago and graduated above average. We spent a lot of time in the skid cars correcting oversteer situations and throttling out of the oversteer is what you do in the vast majority of cases, but not always - at least that's what I got out of it. Again, just trying to clarify, not belabor the issue. Best, ~C | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1605 Registered: 12-2000 |
You did the right thing, always throttle it in an oversteer situation. It sounds like the 360 C is just such a pure race car with a bunch of power and it's hard to know when the line will be crossed. I can't imagine, after one year of racing I have about 10 hours of actual on the track racing experience in a low hp car. In that time I've gone off course a dozen times, spun a half dozen times, and already totaled one car. Here's looking forward to the video highlights this coming year! Tim, do you just want a race car to track or do you want to door to door? If you want to club race, I would really recommend the SCCA T-1 class, which includes minimally prepared (cheap) exotics like the Viper, Z06, and 355. A fully race prepared new 2002 Z06 will run about $80k. The Vipers about $110k. The 355 C isn't competitive anymore, but hopefully the 360 C will be classed this year. T-1 is a great class because... 1) It's a national class, so you can get divisional points and qualify to be on national TV at Mid Ohio. 2) They are fast fun cars, but only mods are really suspension and safety stuff, so they're street reliable. 3) If a Z06 or Viper can't get you a sponsor, then nothing can. 4) A newer class, but quickly becoming one of the more popular. Check out www.sccaforums.com for more info. There's a dedicated section there for T1/T2. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 572 Registered: 12-2001 |
Tim - we've all "run out of talent" at one point both on and off the track - so don't be too hard on yourself. A while back a F-40 went into the wall at Mosport during a Ferrari event. It wasn't even the owner driving! | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 145 Registered: 2-2001 |
Another fun track ride to consider is a 125cc Shifter Kart. A more visceral experience than anything close to a street car, IMO. Total cost probably in line with a general wear item package (wheels/tires/brakes) on a 360C. And a fairly decent way to hone/maintain car control skills. | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 116 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris: I think lifting would have made the rear lighter by shifting the weight to the front and would have definately induced a spin. I was in an oversteer situation and as I understand it I need to apply throttle to shift weight to the rear to gain traction and correct the car. this is what I did and the car came back but when it came back it bit hard and spun beyond catchable the other direction. typical rookie mistake on my part. Manu: I'm selling because this car is too expensive to fix. the car comes with NO warranty and blowing motors while racing with this car is fairly common from what I hear and its $50k for a replacement. I have been told that PIR is a very easy track for this car and that it is a huge handful on other tracks. I need more seat time before getting into a car like this. its a bummer because the car is just incredible! I'm going to find a used grand-am car or something, thats all steel tube frame, fiberglass body parts, and inexpensive motor. they are cheaper to fix, more forgiving, cost MUCH less out of the box (used) and just get as much seat time as possible. but thanks for the words of encouragement. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 261 Registered: 2-2002 |
Oh Tim - NOOOOO! Are you sure you're not over reacting? (I hope you don't think that sounds insensitive). Learn it - respect it - drive it -but don't sell it mate. | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ouch!! The important thing is that you can walk away without injury. | ||
| chris cummings (Entelechy)
Junior Member Username: Entelechy Post Number: 86 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tim, I echo everyone's sentiments below, but had a question for you (and the others) for my own edification. I too, just completed the four day course at Bob Bondurant and it sounds like you were in a power oversteer situation. I thought in that instance that you should come gently off the throttle if not even lightly on the brakes to get the weight back to the rear - and that you apply throttle to correct oversteer when the back end got light from braking too heavily. In addition to everything else mentioned, could this have been a factor? I know you have a great deal more experience than I, but wanted to ask as I had that same learning experience at Bob's school both in the Mustangs and the Formula cars. Best, ~Chris | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well I have come to a decision; I am going to sell the car. I think it is to technical for me at this point and I�m in over my head. I need to learn on a lesser car and one that is cheaper to fix, hopefully I won�t be fixing anything that I end up with. Body shop says it not that bad of a repair. Will be complete in three weeks. Two cracked wheels, bent tie rod, and a couple other components. Fenders can be pounded out but I am going to replace them anyway. �2002 360 F1 challenge, two seats, car and seat covers, slicks and rain tires. $165K no anyone interested? Please send them my way. Thanks. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Junior Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2001 |
Tim im sorry to hear that . Wel las everybody said , the important is taht you are fine .and that the car is fixable .i hope you 'll get it back quickly because she's just too beautiful ! About repainting it in red , thats a great idea . i also love the challenge in Giallo . Good luck Andrew | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 157 Registered: 11-2001 |
I know exactly how you feel. I had a similar experience with my 348 9 days after I bought it. I thought I was going to die. It happened on the road and I was very lucky. It could have been much worse. I had never been to a driving school or track event. It turned out to be somewhat of a blessing in that nobody was injured and it only resulted in about $20k of damage. The car is in better condition than it was before, and it motivated me to become a better and safer driver. While the car was being repaired I went to Bob Bondurant's driving school in Phoenix, AZ. It was the best $2600 I have ever spent. There is no substitute for good training. I don't even call what they give you at track days training, it's more like hints and quite often they are wrong. Hire a good instructor or go to a good school and use your own car. It's interesting HOW you wrecked, it is exactly what happened to me. Oversteer, correction, car bites, then spins in the opposite direction. I have seen so many people do this it is amazing. One of my best friends owns a body shop and you see so many cars come in with damage from this exact situation. Try not to feel so bad. I have seen a lot of challenge cars that have been repeatedly damaged. Just fix it and get back to it. | ||
| Michael Fennell (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 52 Registered: 7-2001 |
"And owe ya, this is my 4th time on any track." Tim, did I read this right? 4th time at all on a race track? It sounds like you were at an event with open passing too. To add to Jon's excellent advice, I think that a high powered wondercar like a 360C is a poor choice for learning. The limits are just so high. Those high limits mask the mistakes of a learner then bite hard when you exceed them. I'll bet Rob Lay will tell you he learned more about driving than he ever thought possible in his sluggish Spec RX7 (Spec, right?). I know I did. To do well in a spec class (hell, just to crawl into the top 10!), you learn to drive on the edge all the time. That's a very difficult and potentially expensive thing to learn driving such a rocket. Glad you're OK. Keep at it. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 415 Registered: 5-2001 |
All of life is a learning process.Glad you're O.K. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
New member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sorry to hear about your mishap. If you run on the track, sooner or later something like that will happen. I have been running my cars on tracks for 13 years. Stuff happens. I have seen highly seasoned drivers end up in the wall many times due to tires not being warmed up. When running my current car, if someone catches me I just let him/her go. They caught me because they are faster so I don't get out of my comfort/skill range trying to keep up even though everything in my competitive spirit urges me on. I see students doing this time and time again - looking in the rearview - to see if the car behind them is getting any closer. They speed up and start getting sloppy, and then I start getting nervous so I make them slow down and let the other car pass. The tendency is even stronger if you perceive your car to be superior to his car. It is not the car so much as it is the driver. It sounds like things could have been much worse. Consider yourself lucky in that respect. | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 113 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks to everyone for your condolences, words of wisdom, encouragement, and concern. I agree with what everyone is saying and I am by no means an experienced driver, I have a ton to learn. Thanks Jon for all your useful information. I tend to agree with you on the drift thing, I caught the car in the initial drift with throttle application but then it snapped the other way. I probably way over corrected, didn�t get back out of the throttle soon enough, and many more things I�m sure. I totally agree with going where you look. First time I was the wall was when the car was spinning in circles and I put it in neutral and stood on the brakes. I also agree with you �get and instructor�. We are planning on going to the proving grounds here in town, they have a huge skid pad, dry or wet, and my instructor is going to get me drifting and catching, getting the feeling for the braking point as it lets loose and how to correct, pause and recover. I cant afford any more trying to catch it on the track incidents and I�m sure your right about the repair bill. I was thinking if they say its minor that probably means about $25K. Again thank you all for your kind words and helpful advice. And Jon yes you are right this can be a tough board but I also knew that this was the only place I could tell friends what happened and they would understand my pain, help with advice and encouragement. You guys are great, a support network like this is hard to find. Yes I was very disappointed when I stepped out of the car and saw the damage, in fact words cant describe it. I was so mad at myself because I knew it was my fault and a very very stupid mistake. I am still bruised very badly but thankful that its just my ego. | ||
| Norm Plaistowe (Normp)
Junior Member Username: Normp Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2001 |
I agree that silver looks good on a C car, but if the reason for the complete repaint is the problem matching silver after an accident you should go with another color. I hate to bring this up, but the chances are this will not be the last time the car sees the inside of the body shop....Norm | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Junior Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 170 Registered: 1-2002 |
Tim, I won't repeat everyone else's sentiments...but I agree with them. And I agree with your summary--warm up & let others by until everything is war. I was on track at Motorsports Ranch all weekend in my 1997 M3, and my first run each day was very slow--for the car & me. I waved most everyone by, including several who spun off right in front of me!...but was passing many of them by afternoon when I & the car were well-warmed. No ego lost waving folks by... As for color: 2 suggestions. (1) keep silver--it is beautiful on a Challenge Car!, or (2) how about that neat metalling yellow you see on the lew Murcielago?? Cheers! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1602 Registered: 12-2000 |
After loosing my race car a few weeks ago and hearing about Chris, maybe we all just need to stay in the garage awhile. Sounds like the damage is minor. The worst is bending the frame. If minor bending, then they have high pressure frame machines, but very expensive to strip the car down and do properly. My car's frame was an accordian, so not repairable. Glad you're ok Tim, trust me, you just gained many years experience in that one incident. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 258 Registered: 2-2002 |
Tim, - repetitive but true; you're OK and that's all that really matters. It may have been an avoidable error but then if you are EVER going to drive on the limit (where the fun is) then these things are always going to happen. Cheer up mate. You and the car will be back in a matter of weeks! Manu. p.s. Tim - JonK hit the nail on the head - regarding downforce, Ferrari aerodynamics are the best in the world (F1 AND road cars) BUT crucially they do not always function properly unless the airflow is directed STRAIGHT over the car. Rally car aerodynamics are designed to work at angles of up to 60 degrees to the straight ahead, so the car doesn't lose "aero grip" when sideways despite having exceeded mechanical "tyre grip" levels (and hence being sideways). The more aero downforce a car generates, unless the aero package is designed specifically (perhaps extra rear wing etc or like rally cars) the more violently it will break away when the a certain angle of slip is reached after the tyres have started to let go. The 360 has loads more dowforce than either F355 or F40 - thats why the car is so unforgiving. btw: Cmparrf40 - relax, how were you supposed to know - these things happen. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 81 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tim, Sorry to hear about your crash. I was so excited for you when you posted a week or so ago about your Challenge purchase that I told people at work about it. However with no one caring because they are not car people. (wierd!) I am sorry about your loss and reading your post made me think about how you must of felt when you first stepped out of the car and looked at the damage. Personally though I liked the Silver and the pictures that you posted earlier that I saved them and planned on mimicking that look with the race car that I am building, even though it is not a Ferrari. My vote go back silver. In any event good luck. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 260 Registered: 3-2002 |
I feel like such an idiot! I just posted my weekend wreck in my shifter Kart and had not read this thread... (boy, do I feel dumb!) Tim, it was so ironic when I crashed today, I thought well this will make a good Ferrarichat story and I am sure Art and Tim will get a laugh out of it! Hey, I am glad you are OK, my truck leaves Monday morning, see you this week..... your friend, Chris | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 159 Registered: 8-2001 |
Tim, I know how you feel believe me! Last year I put my Challenge car into the tire wall at Summit Point Raceway on a cold and rainy day. It was all cosmetic but ran nearly 30K in damage. At the end of the day everyone on this board is right, the car can be fixed you can't so say a prayer to the big one upstairs and thank him it's only the car. I had about a dozen people tell me the same thing after I went off and for about the first couple of hours I was sick of hearing it and was thinking to myself, ...Yeah, easy for you to say you didn't wreck your 150K Ferrari... But after I got home that night I realized that they were right, it's only a car and it could have been me. Don't think it can't happen, a year earlier I was right behind a Ford Cobra that went off and the driver was killed. Please take what I am about to tell you as constructive criticism and don't think I am trying to add to your misery. We all learn from other people's mistakes and hopefully others on this board will learn from your informative post on the dangers of slicks. First things first, one lap is never enough to warm up the D3's or the brakes for that matter. It takes at least 3 to 4 laps sometimes more. Forget about what's behind you and what the hell they are doing. Wave em' by, if your fast you will catch them later. As for warming them because of the previous day's running, you were actually quite lucky that you ran them the day before as the first 2 or 3 heat cycles on the D3's provide little grip at all (I am assuming they were not heat cycled before the event). Had this occured on yur first day you probably would have spun even faster or hit with greater velocity. The D3's have a type of sticky polymer on them to help bond the rubber molecules and it takes at least 2 sessions to get this stuff off of them. First session on your first day you probably noticed little or no grip. Some of what your instructor told you has been discussed at lenght by several 360 C owners. There seems to be a general concensus, despite what Ferrari says, that there is a serious lack of downforce due to the abscence of a rear wing. I have driven 355's with and without wings and believe me there is a huge difference between the pre_winged 355 C's and the 1996 and later cars with wings. Some people believe that Ferrari doesn't want to admit this as they really hyped the 360's aero package and greater downforce over the 355. To add the wing now would make them look like they were feeding us a line of bull. One has to ask why does the 360GT have a wing?? The first 360 Challenge race at Homestead back in 2000 saw 9 cars badly damaged in practice and another 3 cars damaged during the race. Clearly the car is much less forgiving at the limit than the 355 C. I have driven the 360 street car and been driven in several 360 C's and again the general concensus is that the limits of the 360 are not only higher but also much narrower between on the limit and over the limit. However that being said, I totally disagree with what your mechanic/instructor said about not being able to catch a drift in this car. That is flat out wrong. Even a 700 Horsepower LMP Prototype with 4000 pounds of downforce can achieve a minimal drift when the slip angles of their tires are exceeded. The 360 C can be drifted and caught, though the average driver is never going to get close to this limit nor will he be able to reacty quick enough should he reach this stage. There isn't a car built that sticks so well that a drift can't be caught. Even F1 cars with tons of aerodynamic downforce can drift and can be caught. And with those cars the transition from going flat out to lifting off (and losing about 4000 pounds of downforce in less than a second) can be corrected and caught. Most good driving schools and race schools teach what is termed CPR. Correct, Pause, and Recover. Most people Correct and THEN recover meaning they didn't wait for the car to stop going in the initial direction. I wasn't there so I can't comment on the car snapping back, but in most cases when snaping back occurs the correction was made but then taken out before the car stopped sliding in the original direction. The other mistake students (and even racers make) is to not look where they want to go. You have been probably taught at some stage to do this when you are entering a corner. Look at the apex, turn in, and then look ahead to where you want to go, usually track out. This also applies during a spin. DO NOT LOOK AT THE WALL (or trees, armco, etc..). If you do your are garuanteed to hit it 100% of the time. I am not saying if don't look at it you won't hit it, but you will definetally hit it if you look at it. If you see the wall look away and start trying to take corrective measures to get the car pointed where you want it to go (any place but the wall). Since you bought a 360 C you have probably done a ton of track events and have some experience. The 360 C is not a forgiving car like the F40 nor the 355 C. Get a really good instructor and listen to him or her. Most driving schools and track day clubs have good instructors, but they are reluctant to push your car to it's limits (especially if they have never driven you particualr model) so they can't really give you a lot of feedback on the limits of the car. Both this year and last year I hired a professional racer to give me some feedback and to drive my car. The first guy was a Formula Continental National Champion and a front runner in the Indy Lights series. I also signed up this year to get personal instruction from Porsche racer David Murray (who has driven at LeMans, Sebring and Daytona with factory Porsche's). I learned more in a few half hour sessions with a professional driver who was willing and able to drive my car at the limit than I thought possible. There was an article a year or so in Forza and Sports Car Magazine about a 360 Challenge Series Competitor who hired Johanes Von-Overbeek (BMW and Porsche factory racer) for an entire day at Sears Point (or Laguna can't remember which) to help him set the car up and learn the limits. Trust me that was the best $1000 that guy ever spent. He was driving it and said it felt fine. Then Johanes got in and said the car was undriveable with it's current setup. If you are going to test the limits of a 360 C you better first have the right setup and second have the ability ot catch a drift in that car. Believe me it can drift and you can catch it with practice. Make sure you have a quality instructor with you. I belong to several car clubs and race SCCA and there is a huge variety of experience in terms of skill level among instrcutors. I have had instructors that were great and ones who have no business instructing at all. Hope this helps and thanks for taking the time to leave such an informative post so that others can learn from you experience. It takes courage to post this on the board. FYI: don't let the "..it's only cosmetic fool you.." mine was too and I nearly fell on the floor when I was given the quote over the phone. Bottom line is that you are alright! You are a hell of a lot more expensive to fix than the car and worth a hell of a lot more as well. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 1988 BMW M5 Club Racer 2000 SCCA Spec Racer Ford #6 | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 267 Registered: 12-2001 |
Glad that you are OK. The car can be fixed. Whart is right, it could have been a lot worse, you could have been the poor bastard going home in the Porsche TT..lol | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 325 Registered: 3-2002 |
tim sad story  brakes my heart to hear it. Im glad your OK though..but when it rains..you get wet..get what im saying? | ||
| Dave Mills (360dave)
New member Username: 360dave Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2002 |
Wow, sorry to hear that, Tim. Hope you can get the car fixed up and get back on the horse, as it were. Thanks for all the details in the write-up. I'd keep it silver, it it were me... Dave | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 144 Registered: 2-2001 |
Glad you're okay, Tim. Agree with your take re: point-by in the future. Think your car looks great in Silver and so would repair with original scheme in mind. Though if your heart's set on red, maybe Barchetta Red (old-school F-Car racing color) is worth a thought. Again, pleased you are well and hope you'll be back out having a good time in no time. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 252 Registered: 8-2001 |
Does insurance cover damage at the track? | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dont beat yourself up too much. If you drive on the track, your eventually gonna break cars. It simply goes with the territory. There are no great drivers who have never bent a car. Period. I had a really sweet polar silver with red leather '95 Porsche 993 that was heavily modified for the track and a blast to drive. I put it off at turn 3 at Road Atlanta.... slid on wet grass down the hill into the trees and rolled up on its side against a tree. Ugly, expensive and ego bruising.... but the car got fixed better than new and I learned a valuable lesson: Dont break so deep into turn 3! Good luck on the repairs, the toughest part is waiting for it to be done! | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 251 Registered: 8-2001 |
I love the orange challenge cars- there was one, #9, running in the Ferrari Challenge series driven by Rebel Steve for Shelton Sports cars which really stood out with black rims... I took a picture of it : http://www.exoticcarnetwork.com/html/modules/Photo_Gallery/gallery/DreamCars/Ferrari/Other/P1010060.jpg | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 959 Registered: 6-2001 |
A car can be fixed or replaced, while you cannot. always remeber that. Everything happens for a reason too, but you will never know what that reason is, only the guy upstairs will. At least the damage wast too severe. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 98 Registered: 1-2002 |
Tim, Seroiusly, that's terrible. But, the fact that your OK -physically- is most important. Emotionally, that may be another story. Sounds like you were paying close attention to your driving and the car, and luckily you remembered the old "...in a spin, two feet in.." rule. Otherwise your repair bill could have included a new motor/tranny. Ironically, at a track day at Sears Point a similar incident happened to a street 360, coming over the crest at turn 3- i think- the driver went two wheels off and lost the rear end, lifted off, and after that the car was gone. Right rear made contact w/ the tire barrier, not too hard, but left a fair amount of cosmetic damage. Gladly he was ok, duct taped the bumper back on and went out in the next session. About the color change, I say you keep it silver, any competent body shop will be able to seemlessly match the color. Don't worry. -Hubert | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 298 Registered: 12-2001 |
Dude: Count your blessings for what you still have and didn't lose, know that this happens to race cars and pick a different color; i'm so tired of red. (If you really want to beat yourself up, pretend you are the P car guy for a minute, but then, wait a minute, if so, you'd have an excuse..). | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2002 |
thank you very much John. great idea on the color, now you got me thinking | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
New member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 40 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tim, Just remember that the car can be fixed and will be back in no time. The main thing is that you, or anyone else, were not injured or killed. Have fun with that beast!!! Oh yeah, about the color. Maybe you could do something completely radical like burnt orange. That sure would get everyone's attention! | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 109 Registered: 3-2002 |
since I will probably be repainting the whole car because the silver is so hard to match, I was thinking of changing it to red. what do you think? | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 108 Registered: 3-2002 |
I�m crying as I write this, OK I�m on the verge of crying. To the brand spanking new 2002 shiny silver 360 F1 Challenge to the track Saturday and Sunday. Brand new Pirelli challenge tires, D3 compound, spent 3 days checking every nut and bolt, camber, toe, corner weighted properly, bedding brakes, experimented with springs and went back to the stock firm, after running going to switch to medium, checked all computer equipment, etc. etc. car was perfect in every way! Saturday morning at Phoenix International Raceway (PIR) was beautiful, 87 degrees, clear and I was ready to run. Unloaded the car 2 hours of last minute double checks of everything, drivers meeting, rules and now its time to run. I was in the advance group 4, first group on the track. Told my self to take it easy since it was the first time in the car, new tires and never have been on this track. Started off slow finding the line and scuffing up the tires. Slowly increasing the speed. Great first session 20 minutes long lap times of 1:34 to 1:25. Second session refined the line and picked up speed, getting used to the F1 shifter and the brakes. Absolutely incredible brakes, beyond believable and combined with the F1 shifter you can really run hot and deep into a corner. At first I was braking way too early and coasting to the turn in point. With the F1 shifter you can go way deep because you can do 3 or more consecutive downshifts in a heartbeat as opposed to having to manually down shift which takes time. Lap times are now 1:25 to 1:18. Third session bettering the line and braking points. Starting to get a better feel for the car and increasing speed through the corners. Still breaking in a straight line just to be safe, no trail braking yet. Session 4 and last of the day. Car is sticking like glue to the track, line is looking good, braking points are good, shifting points are good and we are running fairly fast, times of 1:13 to 1:09 during this session. The car handles incredibly! Passengers are amazed at how well it corners. The corner workers came over after the session and said they were amazed at how fast the car can take the corners and remain so flat, they commented that it cornered way faster than anything else out there. During this session got behind a new Porsche twin turbo. I had to slow down for him in the corners, stuck my nose in several times but he pinched me off. I could tell he was not going to let a Ferrari pass him. Finally had an opening in 2nd to last corner and took it, ran deep into the inside of him in the corner and broke way late, 3 down shifts, apex, back on the gas, my nose was in front of his by about � car, I was on the gas sooner than him, grabbed a gear and was gone, last hair pin and onto the back straight, he hung with me well down the straight and around the back oval, into turn one I touched the brakes to set the car and went in hotter than ever before, could feel by cheeks gobbling up seat cushion, would it hold?........................... YES! It�s a Ferrari, turn 2, turn 3, now the Porsche is a small object in my rear view mirror. Came all the way around and passed him again before the session ended. The car was simply amazing. After that session the Porsche guy came over and said he was having traction problems, wanted to know what I had done to the car, said his car was not running well, along with at least 10 other excuses. He then said �but you are probably faster because you have driven for so long and obviously raced �that car� for a long time� I guess Porsche guys have a hard time saying �Ferrari�. I asked if he had run PIR before and he said many times. I told him the car was brand new, no modifications after it left the factory, my first time driving it, and my first time on the track. And owe ya, this is my 4th time on any track. He then repeated his long list of excuses. Then he let his guard down and told me his wife was in the car and she kept saying �that Ferrari is AWESOME�. All in all great day on the track. Packed it up and headed home, did all the checks and got ready for Sunday (today, May 19th) up Saturday at 4:30 am and in bed at 11:pm. Up Sunday at 4:30 am again and off to the track. Completed all the checks on the car and everything looked great. I was very anxious to get out on the track after having such a great last session yesterday. I was the first group out. First lap was yellow for a warm up of the track, car, tires and driver. They only had one lap yellow and it was a slow one and then the track went green. I had still not warmed up the tires even close to where they should be, I was not warm and neither was the track. When we went green off the front straight I had a cobra blast up on my rear into turn one, not wanting to hold him up I pushed a little faster still being careful because I knew the tires were cold. I was out of the corner way faster than the cobra, he was about 5 cars behind me and then right up on my butt again, not wanting to hold him up I moved off the brakes and applied the throttle but not being warmed up myself I was a little heavy on the throttle and still coming out of the corner, I started into a 4 wheel drift to the right. I drifted about 125�, I was gently applying throttle to try and catch the car. I was not going deeper into the drift but it still was not coming back either. Out of nowhere the car bit and snapped back to the left, corrected the steering, more throttle but now it was gone. Pulled in both paddles and put the car in neutral and stood on the brakes. Around and around we went, I could see the wall coming but we where slowing, just about to stop and I thought �I�m not going to hit the wall� then I was in the marbles which carried me the rest of the way to the wall. Right rear contacted just before the right front. Need two wheels, two fenders, rear bumper, shroud, etc. rear wheels is buckled kinda under the car but pointing out at the front, looks like your making a right turn in an all wheel steering car. It bent the rear something, my mechanic said its minor, front wheel is pointing right and does not respond with the steering wheel while the left does, again my mechanic says it�s minor as well. He says it looks worse than it is and most of it is cosmetic and that that should cost too much. Is there such a thing as �minor� and �not cost much� when it comes to a Ferrari let alone a challenge car? What did I learn? Warm up the TIRES especially after running on them the previous day. Warm up the driver and don�t think I can start where I left off the day before. And no matter what don�t be so damn courteous in not wanting to hold someone else up that I go faster than I should before the car or I am ready. Let them pass or hold them up. I thank God I or someone else was not hurt. I was so mad at myself, several stupid mistakes strung together and I put it in the wall. I knew better on all counts. I made myself feel better for a little while when I said �at least I didn�t bring the F40 on the track this weekend� that would have been disastrous. I�m going to hang the crumpled fender in my trailer as a reminder every time I back the car out. My instructor/mechanic said that we had heat cycled the tires 4 times the previous day which made the rubber very hard and slick. Then combine that with not getting them up to temp and it was going to happen period. He also told me that the challenge car is very hard to drive because it give absolutely no hint that it is going to break loose, its either stuck like glue or spinning. He also said there is no such thing as catching a drift in this car because as soon as it starts to drift one of two things, or both, happen, it looses it airflow and therefore its down force and washes out in the direction you started your drift or in the drift it bites and snaps back to the other side beyond catchable. He also said this is true of the street version but more so on the challenge. If you have a 360 be careful. Chris, go slow next weekend with that F40! Needles to say I wont be running it next weekend at FCA/LA. I am so bummed, mad at my self and just exhausted from beating myself up. Sorry this was so long but it makes me feel better sharing my grieving with you guys. |