| Author | Message | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Dilly I am sure you have more than 2500 Miles on that Dino. Well you said it already you bought it with more. You also track your car so I would take all of that into consideration if I would be the judge. In fact I believe that there should be extra points given for certain things like: Car has been tracked, car is driven daily, car has exessive mileage (whatever that is, except Nick I believe that nobody here has exessive mileage on his car anyway). Solly stop worrying. I would not have spend $4500 for the tools. Don't take Cavallino so serious. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Hey Magoo, see Bret's engine-pull in the Tech Q&A and you'll know why I want to get at these motors. But that really does sound like a good idea... | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Hey buddy, Just go to the auto store and get some G.M. repro. handles for it. Install them and forget the power windows. Your wish will come true. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I wish I did have manual windows in my car, Magoo. I pop the little cover off the door panel and insert the crank tool and wind up with little effort. I gotta start work on those motors (looks like I have more time now for these winter projects). | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Not in my car Peter. Are you sure you don't have manual windows? | ||
| DBP (Dilly)
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When I drove the Dino it was at FCA club events only. I drove the car without modifications. I retired the Dino when I started to loose 2nd gear. Since that time I have had the gearbox rebuilt and it as strong as ever. Parts are starting to get harder to find, so the Dino has been retired from the track. We have had our car since 1987 and it had 9,000 miles when we aquired it. As you may have guessed, we started out with a very original car. The only non-original detail are the headlight covers. I love these and will not take them off - -1point for Cavallino or any other serious event - regional events sometimes don't deduct. I would love to talk with you or anyone else about Dinos. As I have noted before, I think these little cars have a very important place in Ferrari history. My husband and I do all the detailing ourselves and we are almost ready for Cavallino. Don't look at my nails when we meet as they are almost gone! What we do for our cars! | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
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Dilly- How was the Dino as a track car? Did you change wheels/tires for lower profile? Any other modifications? Club events or sanctioned events? | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
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Thank you all for the advice. This is getting stupid quickly. Just spent over $4500 to replace missing tools, pouches and manuals. Now found out that the Dinoplex ignition system has been rebuilt with an updated electronic ignition and better coil. I hope they don't deduct for that. You can't even buy an original (non-rebuilt) Dinoplex any more, nor would I want one. Also realized that previous owner had a small prancing horse placed on rear of car next to license plate (but no Ferrari names or other badges). I can't remove this on such short notice and get body repaired in time. Lose more points. I never thought I would enter these events when I bought the car, I just loved to drive it. I would much rather be on the track than in a show, but it's too late now. I agree with Frank that strict concours rules should judge the car on originality in the interest of preservation,I'm just not sure I will ever enter another concours that puts so much emphasis on every little detail. I have won 2 best in class at 2 previous, fairly prestigious events, but the emphasis there seemed to be on overall condition and driveability. Oh well, I still get to meet a lot of you and have some fun. See you there. PS-anyone have an opinion on racing tape for the track? What kind is best, etc.? | ||
| DBP (Dilly)
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It is hard to track a car and show like Martin said however it can be done. I have judged shows at the FCA national and local levels and you do need everything that the car came with to be able to compete. Solly, I will be showing at the Cavallino also, look me up and I will be happy to share some of my tips with you regarding Dino's. Martin, my car has spent a lot of time on the track so don't feel sorry for me that I have never driven my Dino. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I thought it worked pretty well Magoo. Seems to roll it up and down better than the motor. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I was invited to judge in Sarasota this past weekend and must say it is not that easy. Especially that I am an advocate of driving a car not storing it. Yes, the tools make a difference when judging. Any yes, I too would and have deducted points for missing tools and/or missing tool rolls. I myself had no idea that this was a full judging event, so I did not bring my books and left the top in the hotel in the morning. Just cleaned the car a little and went to meet people. Judging in Cavallino is a serious thing. You need to be next to your car when the judge comes by. No valve stem caps with the prancing horse. Nothing that is not 100% original should be on the car. No scuderia shields, caps, stickers from past events, oil change stickers and stuff. How do you judge a 1986 Ferrari with 2600 Miles and a 1994 512TR with 24,000 that has been tracked in the same category? Solly; your first problem is you will track the car the day before and then go on the concourse. That is tough. Eddie called me today and said he expects to be there till late. One piece of advise: do not talk to him. Let him work. He tends to talk with his hands and that takes time off your car. My other advise is, HAVE FUN! Likely you do not stand a chance of winning anything at Cavallino, but those that do are usually to pitty. They have never driven their cars and never enjoyed the feeling that these cars can bring. Just have fun! Will you stay for Italiafest the weekend after? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Eric, They shouldn't be that much trouble to find. They are no more than a piece of steel rod bent in the shape of a crank with a plastic handle on it. I had 2 of them. One in my jack kit and the other with my trouble light. One of them is or was badly corroded. I say that not being sure I still have it. Oh and they don't seem to work very well either. | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
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While on the subject of tool kits... Fortunately, my 308 came with both tool rolls as well as the safety light. However, I've seen some tool rolls pictured with the emergency window crank tool. Was this item included in one of the tool rolls from the factory (I don't see it as part of the listed items in the parts manual)? If so, does anyone know of a source for this particular tool? The closest I've come to finding one was TRutlands, but they had just sold the last two that they had in stock  . | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Thanks Rich. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Magoo, I have seen them sell on Ebay for less than $300. I am guessing that this would be close to the going rate. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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From One of you guys who knows. Where should the price be on either of these 308 tool kits? Thanks, Magoo | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
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Here is another tool kit but it is for a 308, looks good too. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600551117 | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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While I don't show my car in a lot of concours events, I am glad that "originality" is the key to winning. Otherwise, who would even know what a 1950 era Ferrari was suppose to look like or what the original equipment was. The rare person who enjoys the concours game helps keep the old cars original for future generations to enjoy. | ||
| DBP (Dilly)
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Life is full of choices isn't it. Take heart as I have tracked and shown the same car in the past. Our Dino was my track car for several years and I won a GT award at the 1989 FCA National in GA with the car. Our TR became my track car and we won 1st place with this car in 1993 at the FCA National in FL. So it can be done but it takes alot of hard work. Currently I am driving a 355 on the track but I don't show this car. As a result I seem to be driving more aggressively and having more fun. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
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Same old dilema: usabilty or originality. I need 2 cars then: one for show that's 100% original but has lots of stupid things wrong with it like it won't start easily or run well; and one that I've fixed/upgraded the stupid things to smart things and it drives great but won't win any competitions. Such is life in general. | ||
| DBP (Dilly)
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The tools are part of the car just like the spare tire or lack thereof in the newer cars. When you show a car the car should have all the original pieces. If it doesn't then points are deducted, it is that simple. If you want to modify your car then don't show it as an original Ferrari because you have gone away from the concept of originality. There is a list of point decuctions and if you are interested you can contact Ed Gilbertson and he will be happy to provide you with the information. His address may be located in any Prancing Horse. The long and short of it is, don't buy a car without tools, books and other original equipment if you think you will want to show it in the future. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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This is why I don't enter the pure stock events. I modify my cars ever so slightly to make them more durable and user friendly but it detracts from the purist state. There are others who are purists and that is fine. I usually enter the peoples choice catagory if they have one and do pretty well. I could care less about the over rated tool kits. What are they judging, a car or the tools? | ||
| Mike Fisher (Mikef)
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Check with Lyle Tanner, 408-364-0881, he has some new spare tools and some tool rolls. Maybe someone would be kind enough to loan you theirs with some deposit pending their return???? I have a nice kit for my 77 308, but have no idea if it would be correct for your car. Which brings up another point for discussion. I find that concours judging puts so much emphasis on items that are almost irrelevant to the car itself. Lets face it: Is a proper tool kit 4% of the car? Does anyone out there have a list of proper points deductions for specific items? When you get down to the proper style of hose clamps and whether a bolt is the proper Italian original I get completely frustrated. Isn't the overall condition of the car most important? What is better, original and well preserved or new and way overrestored? Like panel fit....It wasn't that great when the cars left the factory!! Also it seems like every judge has their own little idiosyncrasies that they put so much emphasis on when they are judging. Good luck at Cavallino. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
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I always look on ebay. They usually have tools kits kicking around. Here is one, but it's not for a Dino. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=600380934&r=0&t=0 | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
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Just found out that an incomplete tool set and manual set is an automatic 4 point loss at Cavallino due to strict judging rules. I have only a few of the original tools, in a decrepit original bag. Anyone know where to find a set of tools/manuals for a 1974 Dino 246 GTS on short notice? Any help would be appreciated. I saw an ad from a dealer in England not too long ago, but can't remember his name. Tools were something like $5,000 for originals-seems insane for a set of tools worth 50 bucks or so. |