| Author | Message | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
|
Here (supposedly) is a 348 challenge at $40K: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=601147992&r=0&t=0 I can't speak to the 348, but the 355 challenge cars are incredibly fun to drive. The ask on these (like s/n 107990 ) has been well over $100K with no takers for awhile - i only just now see it has dropped to $95k after 6 months... | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
|
Jake, I owned one of the 32 Challenge TB's for 3 years and drove it about 14K before selling it recently. I did a lot of research and here it is in a nut shell. Mine was one of the ones that was never raced (about half were raced.) Being 94's they have all the 348 updates (which are numerous) plus a number of challenge goodies that have mostly already been mentioned here. It was a great car, fast nimble and reliable. I had previously driven an earlier 348 and did not like it much. On the road, these are stiff cars. Lots of steering kick back and you will feel every bump. They can be tiresome. You have to drive it on the track to really appreciate it. Although there are very few, they do seem to turn over and I think the hard ride is the reason. I sold mine in August for 68K. It is R/B with 16K on it and it needed service. I had the challenge kit with it, not installed, but no wheels. If the car you are considering is the one in Denver, I know the car and the owner. I believe it has the challenge wheels (worth about 2K. 75K for that one would not be out of line in my opinion but not a gift. Cars that have been raced can sometimes be bought very cheap. True road cars cannot. If you want more info, email me alpinenum@aol. Dave | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
|
Matt, Good to hear from you. I responded to your other post a few minutes ago. Will email you a market update at the end of the week (not looking good on the earnings front but the economic news is getting better). Jon | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
|
Jon, good to see you on the boards. This is the first time I've logged on in over a month. As usual, you are spot on in regards to you comments on the 348 Challenge Car. I hope all is well, and dont you worry....I'm having a blast! Jake, I think the technical issue has been addressed, so I will comment on the car itself. I spanked the tar out of my 94 348 Factory Challenge Car for 3 seasons. It was an awesome car; predictible, consistent, and willing to give you all it has. My 355 Factory Challenge Car is different (I won't say better out of respect for my 348, but it is better due to the differences), but bang for the buck, a solid 348 Challenge Car is a lot of fun! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Jake I am getting a 348 TB, 1990 red for way below $50K. Just as a reference. coming soon on www.4ferrari.com | ||
| jake liddell (Enzoforza)
|
I understand what you guys are getting at. I never thought that this car was going to be worth any significant amount of $$$ in the future. I just wanted to have a 348 that was a bit unique. Im really looking for a 355 tb/ts. This challenge just caught my eye and if I can get into and save myself 35k I was going to make an offer. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Bob, Paul told me you were there and he was sorry that he had so many people around him to not have the chance to talk to you longer. I was at the luncheon across the street. The decall on the side is : www.4Ferrari.com and that is my website. Don't try it now, it is down since this morning. We will have that fixed by the end of the day.  Sorry that I missed you. I was looking for you and had hoped that it would come to a meeting but I guess we have to do that another time! Are you going to Cavallino? | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
|
Martin, I couldn't find you in Sarasota but I spotted your car. Isn't your 348 a Challenge car? I also saw the www.ferrari1.com on the side of your car... what's that all about? Casinos? | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
|
Rob is absolutely correct!! Ferrari race cars matter only in the respect of who drove them and if they were professionally raced. To some degree who built them also has some importance such as some of the Michilotto cars from the 80's as well as the series they competed in. Comparing a bunch of amateurs running a Challenge car at a Challenge race at Sebring cannot compare to someone like Phil Hill winning in a Ferrari at Sebring 12 hours. Most of the 348 and over half of the 355 Challenge cars were not even built at the factory, being converted at US dealerships. The Challenge cars will never be worth much and will never appreciate in value other than in respect to their particular model (if 355 prices go up because of historical importance than 355 Challenge cars would go up as well). The Challenge series is for amateurs only and not professional racers. One only need look at the difference in prices for 333 SP's. The number 3 and number 30 Momo cars, of which the number 3 won Daytona and Sebring in the same year at the hands of Moretti, and other professionals sold a few years later for close to $2 million. Several European 333 SP's with LeMans history (though no wins) sold for the equivelant of $1.5 million US dollars. Several less successful 333 SP's, some with little or no competition history have sold for as low as $800,000. A yellow 333 SP (don't know the chasis #) run for only three races in Europe by a wealthy Swiss entreprenuer was sold to a US buyer last year for $875,000. Even Championship winning Challenge cars bring little added value to the price of a non winning Challenge car. 355 Challenge prices have been falling since last summer and will continue to do so because they are no longer eligible for the Challenge series and they are not competitve anymore in SCCA where they have to compete against tube frame Trans Am cars with 600-700 hp. So they become expensive track toys with no important race history. I remember a few years ago seeing a 348 Challenge that had been driven by Phil Hill's son selling for 70K with no takers, certainly he is a bit more famous than other Challenge competitors. The only thing that might raise the value of a Challenge car is if it was driven by an amatuer who then went on to win something more notable (even in another car). Say for example Steve Earle winning Daytona or LeMans (not likely at his age). A 348 Challenge car for $70,0000 is ludicrous! You can pick them up for 40-50K in good shape, maybe 60K for a really nice example. In the case of road cars that have not been raced and don't have the full race package (absent cage and interior left intact) they might command a bit more especially if they are a "Speciale" example and a low serial number. In 1999 I was almost bought serial #1 for the Speciale from Ferrari Of Washington but was outbid by another buyer. It sold for $85,000 then and I would be hard pressed to believe you could get more than 70K for it now. Heck! Hollywood sports cars has been trying to sell a factory built 348 Race car that competed in the Exxon SuperFlow race series and was driven by Didier Theys. It has been for sale for nearly a year and a half at something like 70K with no takers. I have also seen a few 348 LM's that raced at LeMans in 95 sell for that figure. Buy a 348 or 355 Challenge car because you want to go to the track not because ten years from now you want to go to the BANK! Regards, Jon | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
|
I'd say the JMB 360 Modena that won the FIA N-GT championship would be worth something. The Prodrive 550 GTOs also. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
There's a difference between race cars that were driven by Hill and Fangio in the Mille Miligia vs. Joe Blow Skip Barber graduate playing bumper cars with other wealthy amateurs. Think about it, if you had the talent, money, and seriousness of being a real racer, then you would race something like Speed World Challenge at minimum and more likely the FIA series and Le Mans. I'm not saying Challenge racers don't have some of those three qualities, they all have to have money and some have talent, but none truly have all three or they wouldn't be there. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Frank, I agree with the exeption that you have to find one that is one with a good history. Won the 348 Challenge season. Remember there are many more in the Euro Challenge series. There is probably several hundred Challange race cars out there. The Special with the Challange kit appears to be a bargain with the extras listed. And it is a 1 of 100 car. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
|
These Challenge cars could be the buy of the century. History shows that in the past Ferrari race cars were considered junk and sold for far less than their street car counterparts. But, after a decade or so the race versions skyrocketed in value. These $50k Challenge cars could be the million dollar cars of 2025. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
Jake, Chris has most right on his reply so I will not get into this any further. I have a list with all known Challenge VINS. Make sure you get the VIN. One thing. All true x of Challenge cars were imported as street versions with a Challenge kit being shipped from the factory. This was to circumvent a new DOT approval process. Ferrari just claimed that these are the same cars as the 348s in fact they imported them as such. Converted cars were converted here in the US: MOst have been. The estimate is that there are only about 10-15 cars stat are still street cars with the regular street package. You can also find converted regular 348s that are offered as Challenge cars. In fact these are NOT true Challenge cars unless they have the sticker (plate in the passenger side door) and were made only during 1994. $75K sounds too high to me. I think fair price is $ 65K for a street version. Great collector pieces. For raced Challenge you should be at $ 45K. There is one car which has been offered as a Challenge car but is truely a Series Special 1 of 100 with a full race package that was sold for $45K and is back for sale at $ 52K. The extras alone are worth buying this car but only good for track. e-mail me if you need info on that car. | ||
| Chris Tanner (Ctanner)
|
There were 45 348 Challenge cars in 1994. 32 were tb and 13 ts. Each has a special name plate identifying them as # of 32 or # of 13. These cars have the exhaust change that provides the hp increase over the standard 348. This exhaust is also on the 348 spider. There are also some 1994 ts that are not challenge cars. The challenge racing kit had special seats and roll cage. The car also had a competition clutch, brakes, additional cooling, and of course, a fire extinghuisher. Some cars came delivered with the kit, other cars delivered with the parts, but not installed, some cars did not have the kit at all. Once modified for the track, bringing them back to the street is not feasible, so street only ones have some rarity, for what that's worth. (About 8000 348s made 89-95, so nothing is too rare). Of the street 348s, an unmodified and unraced challenge car would be the cream of the crop, assuming you don't want the spider. As there are only 45, I can't comment on how different they drive because I haven't driven one. I have driven a 348 modified for the track and while it drove great, my driving skills are not race bred. An unmodified Challenge is certainly worth a premium over a standard 348, especially if you plan on doing lots of track days. I think fair pricing is about $65K. Getting $75K for the challenge car could be a long wait. $75K can get a 348 spider, a 355 tb with $10K more, or a 89-91 TR, which are all tough competition to the 348. If the car is really for sale, 65 sould get it. | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
|
Where are you seeing 355's for $75K? !@#$!@#$! Man, if things would just pick up a little more.... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
There were like 50 or so that were challenge capable (holes for roll cage), but were still bascially street cars. A real 348 Challenge you would never drive on the street. Thier prices are about $35-50k. For $75k, that must be the limited edition street version. For that price get a 355 GTB. | ||
| jake liddell (Enzoforza)
|
Does anyone on the board know much about the 348 Challenge. I am going to look at one that is for sale (might try + trade My '89 328GTS). I don't know a lot about them, exept that they are a bit more unique that a regular 348tb. This ones a '94 red/tan w 10k miles. I think that these have the 320HP motor as well as different suspension, and a few other race goodies. Does anyone own one, or know what this might be worth. The guy wants 75k for it, this seems steep to me. any more info on these cars would be great. This car was not raced in the "348 challenge series" that Ferrari put on. I heard that they also but some "street" versions on the 348 challenge that were sold to the public through the regular dealerships for people looking for a Ferrari with a little more race bred feel to it but I could be wrong. Any info would be great. |