| Author | Message | ||
| jim galli (Galli)
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My experience with super low mileage cars let say 0 to 10,000 miles is that they in many cases need more attention than a car car with higher miles.I drive my 328GTS at least 1 a week it has 38k miles I have done a full 60k service and almost all EFI related parts to make it a dependable car.It seems to me that a car with less than 50k miles and is in exellent cond sould be condsidered low miles but it isnt.It just dependes if your going to drive it or look at it... | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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No, me first, I'll sell him my GT4 and I'll give him a break, $32k and HE can put it back together! | ||
| David Prall (Davidpra)
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Sure... and a pair of fuzzy dice, too. | ||
| Larry (Larry)
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Peter, it hasn't sold......yet. i was miss led in that a salesman said it had a dino badge. David, they'll probably sell it to some ---- ---- w/a dot com on his shirt......does that $120k include a full tank? | ||
| David Prall (Davidpra)
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Cool -- let me know who buys it... I want to sell the same fool my Boxer for $120K!! | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Yes, that's S/N: 10280, I saw that car last year when I was at the Seattle show. Low miles (13k), lots of chrome on the engine! A little too much for my taste. Nice shape though. It's been on eBay a few times already, did it sell? | ||
| Larry (Larry)
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hey Peter; there's a 75, red/boxer, gt4, at, park place, in bellevue. they're asking $37k. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Believe me, I wouldn't have gotten this car if I couldn't fix it. I can't even imagine paying the prices quoted in various publications for engine-out rebuilds. So yes, I'm laughing now, because all of my expenses are parts. Labour is just my sweat and bloody knuckles (plenty of that with 26 year-old seized bolts. You wouldn't believe how difficult it was to remove the driveshaft bolts. I had a least a five-foot pipe on the end of my breaker-bar to crack them loose. Even then they're super strong bolts, out of 24, I snapped one!) | ||
| Kenneth Butler (Mondialman)
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Peter, top 308GT4's seem to go in the low/mid 20's US; perhaps a super documented/maintained example could go for about 26k? I've seen real beaters sell for 15k and up. Yours is worth much more to you now than you could sell it for at this time but I think down the road you'll get at least twice what you've put in it. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I know Michael Sheehan. He sold European Auto Sales/Restoration years ago and now he is a broker. I certainly believe that comment of his was an exaggeration and probably was going back to his restoration days. I bought my GT4 last year for $24000 Canadian (so that's what, $17/18000 US?). Very little history with no evidence of cam belt change/valve adjustment and other critical services. Sounds crazy eh? I drove it around for about 6 months and its sitting in my garage now, undergoing a full engine rebuild with the addition of electronic XR700 ignition, new tires, new brakes, etc... Had a paint job a couple of years ago and very little wear on the seats. How much would you give me (if I were selling it, WHICH I'M NOT!!)? | ||
| HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
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I currently have (2) Sport Cars. 1.MGB 1970 Milage ?my odometer broke 8 years ago 2. Ferrari Mondial Cab 1984 35K Sounds to me like I need to buy a KIA so I'll have a good and dependable low milage car. | ||
| Kenneth Butler (Mondialman)
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I think a Ferrari is an excellent value. If you pay about 30K for a 35-45k mile 308 in good shape, drive it for 10 years, what will it be worth? $25K? Not less than $20 for sure, right? So figure you put $10K in it for those 10 years and that can be a high number too....you sell the car and you're out $20k over a 10 year span and had a Ferrari. Buy a $35k Lexus or something; granted you'll spend less on maintainence but what will it be worth in 10 years? My point is that owning a Ferrari is not much more expensive than any other car in that price range and it may even be worth MORE than you paid in 10 years if we go into an period of inflation. Old Ferraris will always have a market. | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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I guess those 1955-58 Testa Rossas r only good for parts also, what with all those miles at LeMans & other tracks. I'll give u $25,000 for 1, just cus I'm a nice guy & want to take that old POS off your hands  | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Two important issues here: 1. Many Ferrari with "low mileage" don't have low mileage 2. A "high" mileage Ferrari with regular maintenance is priceless. Have you ever had your car (any) sitting for 6 months? It's getting rusty and old. I would buy a honest high mileage car over any 15,000 miles no maintenance sleeper. | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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I ve met Sheehan, he is an exotic car dealer & used to own European Auto Restorers, dont know if he still does. Anyways he has always seemed to be a kmowledgable guy but this stuff about parting out a TR just cus it has 60k miles is nonsense. I have a 308 QV with almost 60k miles & there is plenty of life left in her. I think this must b Mike talking as a dealer & regarding resale value exclusively. I really hope he was just exagerating about canabilizing a parfectly good Ferrari | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
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The problem seems to be that the lower mileage cars do seem to command the higher prices, whether they are actually in better condition as a higher mile car or not. What it seems to me is that there are different reasons to purchase a Ferrari. One as an investment to say that "I own a Ferrari" but I do not drive it because it will depreciate too much, which it does. And the other people who purchase the car to drive it as it was designed to do. Actually, they do not depreciate as much as they should. If you buy a 308 fixer-upper for $20,000, which is usually the minimum price you ever see one, by the time you pay someone to paint it, redo the interior, and overhaul the engine, you will have invested another $20,000. Now you have a $40,000 car that is worth maybe $30,000. If you could have bought the car for $10,000 you would break even. You have to love the car to loose money like that. On the other hand, if you purchase a new car of any kind, it will depreciate $10,000 the first year and most people do not think anything about that. In other words, a Ferrari is not an investment that you could ever hope to profit from. You have to do it because you want it. Nobody needs A Ferrari. It has no practical use. It is just something that you want. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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This issue of Sports Car Market March 2001 has a response by Michael Sheehan that recomends someone with a 1990 TR part out the car because it has 60k miles. I am so mad right now I can't stand it. Michael seems like he knows at least something about Ferraris, but every response is on the negative side against Ferrari. Anyone else know much about this guy? Every response puts Ferrari down and puts values 10-20% below what I know they are acutally selling for. Do you want a Ferrari that sits around or one that "warms up" on a semi-frequent basis? | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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or maybe he wants to buy it at $35k & sell it to some1 with more sense at $60k | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Or, they could get more money in total selling off all the individual parts (just like my Dad threatened if I don't finish my rebuild and get it out of his garage! L). | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Yeah really. I have heard of various Ferraris going over 150K miles. They are babied there whole lives and are the closest in maintenance next to a race car so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to go that far. Saying that you would part out a 65K miles car sounds more like that person is trying to get you to buy something that is more expensive or something he has in stock. | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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Chopping up a TR for parts simply cus it has high miles ?!?!?! WTF r people thinking ? Why on Earth would u do that ? r u telling me that a TR is built so poorly that its life span is only 65,000 ? This makes NO sense. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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I got the SCM date right, March 2001, but I butchered the TR example a bit. It should have been: '90 TR red/tan 68,000 miles 60,000 mile service done (but no date given) for $50K to which Mr. Sheehan replied: "A 60,000-mile Testarossa is sale-proof, and if the 60,000 service isn't done, it will cost you a cool $5,000 plus for the service. This is a $35,000 car, or, sadly a parts car." in his column "Sheehan Speaks" titled "A Salvage-Title 456 and Other Oddities" | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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Jason -- I didn't realize that the Mondial you're considering is a cab rather than a coupe so this does add a few $K to the mix (especially if the top is in good shape as you report). Still -- needing the service, with the miles, it's not resale red, and the swapped wheels (which I think are a value wash, but don't tell the seller that!) -- ~$38K would be a good deal for the seller while ~$35K would be a good deal for the buyer. JMHO -- although life is too short to really quibble about such a few $. Let us know how it goes. | ||
| William Hubbell (Countachxx)
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15,000 miles anually is what insurance Cos assume most people drive regular cars, x 14 yrs = 210,000 Ok, but this is a Ferrari, but then again it was Ferrari's family car, a 2+2 so maybe more milage should be expected on this compared to a TR I would think 45,000 miles is about avg. On a slightly different topic. Ferraris are meant to be driven. I really dont care how many miles I put on my 512TR as long as it runs & looks good. I enjoy driving her every chance I get & how can any1 put a price on the joy per mile that a beautiful sports car gives u ? | ||
| Jason (Jason77)
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The car is black/tan with 45k,Here are the specifics: He is asking $41500 car is in excellent shape, redyed seats, great top, needs 15k service, does not have original wheels,348 wheels, all service records you can see a picture of it at autotrader.com | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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I know what the collector car market is and wants, but as a Ferrari driver I like the idea that my car got about 3k miles on it a year. That's why you hear about the "Italian tune up". The guy that never drives his car takes it in because it's not running well. The mechanic takes it out the back door and does a little Ferris Buheller valet driving on it and of course the engine starts running better. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
|
The TR example was just one of the examples in Mr. Sheehan's article -- which was on the general subject of how mileage effects F value/price. I don't have my SCM copy with me, but it should be the March 2001 issue (I'll check this and let you know if I'm wrong). SCM = Sports Car Market = http://www.sportscarmarket.com I'd highly recommend getting a subscription -- it's really useful/informative because you get selling price (not asking price) and most often knowledgeable comments/opinions on each deal/car. Mr. Sheehan also has a website where he posts his articles: http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/article_main.html but this does not get updated right away. The "loss" you will take if you sold in 4~5 years with 65K miles is dependent on what you pay now so I'm not sure how to answer this. I would say that all of the "normal" F road cars are depreciating so expect some of this, but I would also add that a modern 4V Mondial is a fairly popular model so this is a plus (unless the colors are horrible) and it won't do any worse depreciation-wise than any other F road car of the same vintage (and like all F's, it will probably do way better than any other make). What price ballpark are you in? My take on an '88 Mondial (in good colors and condition w/records) is: <20K miles = high $30Ks ~ low $40Ks 40K miles = low-mid $30Ks 60K miles = $30K or less but, of course, I'm not a "motivated" Mondial buyer. | ||
| Jason (Jason77)
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No, I don't want to be buried in the car, but I plan on owning it for about 4 or 5 years or so.Would I take a serious loss if I were to sell the mondial with say 65k on it.Were did you get that article on the TR. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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Per Mike Sheehan's recent article in the SCM it is (if I recall correctly, one of his example's was an '89 TR with 50K miles hardly being worth $35K)! Although I personally think the car would give you many years of good service if properly maintained, I'd agree that it's a point that can (and should) be used to knock ~$5K off of the price. You'll have to make an even larger price concession at the end of your ownership -- or do you plan on being buried in it? | ||
| Jason (Jason77)
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I am checking out this 88 Mondial with 45k on it.Is that considered high mileage on a ferrari? The car has all service records and is in great shape, but should I take the mileage into consideration when making an offer on the car. |