| Author |
Message |
Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Junior Member
Username: Davewapinski
Post Number: 188
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 9:50 am: | |
If the owner CARED (not necessarily had the skills) and had the receipts, I would put more value on that than dealer work. If one cares, then they can learn and do an outstanding job. Was the owner's work an act of love?
I think most of us have had some bad experiences with high priced dealers.
An owner who did it as an act of love is going to spend the extra hours and take the extra steps to insure that an outstanding job was done.
For example, would a dealer put a good quality anti-seeze (mispelled) on threads that might have to be taken off in the future? An owner might.
I would look at his/her feelings about the car and work, plus receipts.
Then there are never 100 % guarantees. |
Mitchell Minh Le (Yelcab1)
Junior Member
Username: Yelcab1
Post Number: 171
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 8:47 pm: | |
I work on ALL my cars. I do everything including rebuilding the engine. That way, I know exactly what was done.
I make friends with mechanics so they help me with the stuff I cannot do just by myself. I make friends with machine shops so they help me with stuff I do not have tools for. The only thing I don't do is body work and painting.
I find it fun to tackle those jobs, take time to do it well, and feel proud when I am done. My advise to anyone buying my car is "have it inspected, I would" |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
Member
Username: Eurocardoc
Post Number: 299
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 7:15 am: | |
I have seen cars badly maintained by individuals and proffessional shops. Have a pre purchase inspection done (or two!) before buying and compare to the "records". I have had a guy bring in a 308 for oil change, took the invoice and changed it to read a full service! Luckily the buyer followed up on the records. Most of my customers really enjoy their Ferraris, most are professionals making WAY more money than me, and trust me to do a good job, just as I trust my attorney, accountant, doctor, ad infinitum. Some just do not have a mechanical bent, so they use my services. I admire and respect that you all like to do some of the maintenance, and will post assistance as I can. Peace, Brian |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member
Username: Richelson
Post Number: 715
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 7:01 am: | |
I agree with Mike on this. It also doesn't make a lot of sense why many of you like dealer serviced cars but continue to post in the tech. section. Why encourage something you don't believe. Personally I feel dealer cars are way over priced and a complete waste of extra money. Why not purchase a car for $24K than buy one from a dealer for $31K. $7K was just given away because the car sat on a dealer lot. Also if the car needs some minor attention why not learn to do it yourself. You mentioned that you need to know the owner very well if they did their own maintenance but you will take it to a shop that you don't know the gent. from Adam. I for one don't like to waste money and how do you know what kind of car you are driving if you don't know what is under the hood. It might as well have a Chevy under there and for garage queens why not remove the engine all together since it is never driven. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 154
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:42 pm: | |
I have had bad experience with owner maintained cars. I am sure there are really good, backyard mechanics, but unless you know the guy well I would be suspect. Shops can screw up too, but you can check their reps and experience.
Dave |
Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
New member
Username: Standig
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:34 pm: | |
Much like Miked I love to work on my own cars. I love to wash and wax them. I like to feel the lines of the car. Every car is put together with nuts and bolts. Them come off and go back on. If you have a feel for putting nuts on without breaking them you can fix anything. What we do it yourselfers need is the same information the "trained at the factory" ferrari mechanic has.
Granted there are somethings about ferrari's that are unique to them, that is also true of Jags, Toyota's and Honda.
I don't think we should be afraid of tackling any repair job. We may just do it twice until we learn the proper way. By the way, many techs have to do things twice even when they are trained.
Let's keep together and keep accurate information available.
|
Mike Dawson (Miked)
New member
Username: Miked
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 9:26 pm: | |
As a consummate gearhead, I do all the work myself. As several people have stated, it's a love and a hobby that gives great satisfaction.
Back in the sixties when I was in high school, everyone worked on their own cars. Anyone who didn't could easily have had questions raised about their sexual preference! Auto Mechanics classes were as common as computer classes are in today's high school environment. It seemed that in the 70's cars went out of favor and the so called "blue collar" skills were banished to "trade school" status. It's easy to see why so many of today's car enthusists, particularly Ferrari owners, didn't have the opportunity to learn the skills needed to tackle their own service work.
If you don't feel confident about doing the work correctly or don't have the necessary tools, then by all means have a "professional" do it. If you want to learn how to do your own work then there are lots of fellow owners that can teach you the basics. The 3*8 models that most of us have are actually pretty straight forward designs that are easy to work on.
IMHO, one is missing out on part of the "Ferrari experience" by not participating in the mechanical side of the equation, somewhat like driving a Ferrari with a transplanted Chevy engine under the hood. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 1858
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:01 pm: | |
This applies to older cars like ours, but for the most part, modern cars have far too many electronics that the DIY'er won't be able to fix (the need for specialised computer-readers).
What will it be like to own a 360/550/etc... twenty years from now?... |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member
Username: Richelson
Post Number: 711
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:06 am: | |
I think the dealer serviced car are very over rated for many reasons. There was a thread on here a little while ago on how dealers treat some Ferraris. Leave them out in the bright sun, windows down etc. Also my car had complete dealer servicing. My favorite was when I removed the timing belt covers and a few of my pulleys were missing parts of their flanges. This is where someone was rushing the job and used a screw driver to pry the Timing belt over the pulley. This service was done by a very well known Ferrari dealership but I will not mention their name. Time is money too. When they get a job in and it says 4 hours by the book. Well if they can get it done in 2 1/2 hours, then they made profit and can bring in another job. I think it is window dressing. The 2 cars I have heard of this year that had t-belts slip were all dealer serviced cars. Just my humble opinion but on my 308 I have seen many short cuts taken and it is a dealer serviced only car. I have heard of instances where shops have charged for work not done too. Either way there is no magic car that won't break down. You could purchase a car from a factory Auth. Dealer and the car could lose a t-belt 4 months later or you could buy a car from an individual and have it run flawlessly. Your odds are nearly the same either way but for me I want to purchase a owner serviced car this time around. Preferably from a fellow chatter. I am still on the hunt for a nice QV but still after many months not too many prospective cars. |
Ken (Allyn)
Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 425
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 8:26 am: | |
Goes both ways with Lotus' and I suspect Ferraris too. There's the DPO (dreaded previous owner) who jury riggs ingenious but flawed repairs for systems he doesn't quite understand, and then the gearhead who loves and understands his car. He will take the time to do things right and will be better than most 'Authorized' mechanics.
I just fixed an air leak in my manifold/carb interface by just tightening down some nuts that cured my idle problem, that my mechanic said I'd have to rebuild the carbs to cure. He shold have recognized the symptoms and started with the simple stuff...but he had $$$ in his eyes. |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 71
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 8:15 am: | |
Thank you for all the good advise. Alot of good info.
Keep it coming.. |
S. Long (Sml)
Junior Member
Username: Sml
Post Number: 51
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 7:01 am: | |
Most of the respondants in this thread appear to have good working knowledge of their car. I do the "normal" maintenance on my '89 328 GTS, but how would I get the more advanced training to perform other tasks? I am a working professional in NYC, but would like to take weekend classes to gain the knowledge to do more myself. Does Classic Coach or other F-dealers provide technical classes? Pls advise on Ferrari classes |
joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member
Username: Ironjoe
Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 9:19 pm: | |
If the guy is well versed in mechanics,he should have the right answer about HIS car for you within 1 (one) second.I have never taken a car to a dealer or a repair shop in my life.. 99% of the guys that are GEARHEADS are like this..EVERY nut n bolt torqued to spec,loctite,all pans and surfaces spotless before assembly,new cables,washers,lines, its endless,its a love of building it perfectly, evreytime no matter how long it takes.I know tons of great mechanics,and they love to do the job well...M,T,W,TH,FRI,, sometimes comitted to a few more engine bays than they desire by the service write up guys...I can tell by his garage,look at his toolbox,any good air-tools,how bout a floor jack,compression tester,Snap-on,( out of 10 hes a honest guy,Id go with the Gearhead handsdown.GET a Leakdown test take it for a rip
for an hour..... |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 316
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 8:37 pm: | |
You bet I do it myself! Do you know how much love and attention I put into it? I will be surprised that an under paid mechanic having to service, who knows how many cars in a day/week/, will take the time and consideration that I take with mine. After all most maintenance and repairs tasks are not rocket science material, but then, it pays to know when to leave it to the professionals. As Dirty Harry used to say: "A man's gotta know its limitations!". Nevertheless, receipts from a dealer had less weight for me than from a reputable independent mechanic. I don't know about you guys, but I have never had to argue/fight with the Independent guys that I have used in the past. I just wish I could say that for the service at the dealers that I have used when my cars were under warranty (only reason cars went to the dealer). |
C. Smith (Italianauto)
Junior Member
Username: Italianauto
Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 7:15 pm: | |
Hmmmmm......get a HUGE discount unless he can prove his ability to do the service. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 6:49 pm: | |
I have so far done all the service (oil changes mainly) on my 360 myself. If you think "professionals" at the dealer are doing a better job than yourself, you are in for a big shock.
Ernesto |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 483
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 6:01 pm: | |
I would rather have it done by a professional. |
Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member
Username: Owens84qv
Post Number: 382
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 5:51 pm: | |
Ron, I purchased a '84 308 where the owner said he did the 15K/30K by himself rather than at a dealer. My previous owner did have all the records, reciepts for parts, and videos to back it up. In my case and knowing the previous owner of my 308, I actually felt better knowing the owner did the service rather than the dealer. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 5:20 pm: | |
I would also prefer owner serviced. He loved it... the dealer could care less. Make sure there are receipts for all the parts, and check the dates on the parts to verify what was done when. I would not pay more or less for owner serviced, just less if there is no proof of service either way.
Pictures also help a ton. Whenever I do work on a classic car, I shoot pictures. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 316
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 5:04 pm: | |
I would prefer it in most cases especially if the owner knows what he is talking about. After all it is their car and they should know best how their own car drives/responds. If they have documents then all is good. I wouldn't pay less either that really has nothing to do with it. IMO the owner since it is his car will be very careful when repairing it. HTH. |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 3:23 pm: | |
The model would be a 79 carburated 308. I've heard that they can be serviced by the owner if you know your way around the engine.
I know Ferrari doesn't pay their mechanics well for something I can do myself..
Would you buy a car like this..
Tom, that is a good question to ask. I didn't think of the reciepts.. |
Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member
Username: Najib
Post Number: 142
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 3:09 pm: | |
Its got to be at the right price as well. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 730
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 2:53 pm: | |
Ron -- what year/model/version? Did the Owner take any jpegs of the work? |
TomD (Tifosi)
Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 731
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 2:52 pm: | |
depends, make sure he has the reciepts for the parts /and other doc of his work. I am a pretty good judge of character, thow him a few old ball questions about the service and see how he responds- |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 68
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 20, 2002 - 2:45 pm: | |
How do you feel about purchasing a Ferrari that the owner says he did all the service including the 30k ..
Do you think the car should be serviced by a dealer to get the adjustments right, or would you trust the owner doing everything right even if he wasn't a authorized mechanic but really good with his hands.. |