| Author | Message | ||
| Kyle Madan (Kmadan)
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I'm not a Lotus expert, but came across this website a while ago. Lots of info on the Esprit. http://www.espritfactfile.com/ | ||
| Eric Eiland (Eric308gtsiqv)
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Thanks, Dave, for sharing your Lotus experiences from a "personal" perspective. All I can say now is "I REALLY WANT ONE!!!!!!".  Also -- on a side note -- I for one am very proud of military personnel like yourself -- and the work, sacrifices, and danger that you face every day to defend this great nation. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot since a youngster, and came very close to applying for the Naval Academy (had all paperwork filled out, letters of recommendation, etc.); but, after thinking long and hard about the commitment, I decided to persue my current career. Was fortunate though to know several pilots who would often take me along to fly the simulators (mainly S3 & P3), watch touch and go's, sit in on briefings, etc. I really admire military pilots for their dedication to not only their training, but also the tasks which they are called upon to do at a moments notice. Keep up the good work!! By the way, if you ever get a chance sometime, could you post some pics of your Lotus? | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
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Hi all. I have a 94 Lotus S4 as some of you may know. Overall if you are looking to add another HANDMADE exotic the Esprit Turbo is a good one. Stick to the fuel injected cars that began life in 86. The most powerful versions began with the Esprit Turbo SE in 89. Ive owned my S4 for 2.5yrs now. The S4S was the last 4cyl and had 300 hp on a nice cold day with a working charge cooler.They were built in 95 only and sold along side the S4. My S4 has 264hp and does 0-60 in 4.7 according the tests/book data for that time. If I keep my foot out of the boost it gets 26 or better on the highway. As Peter stated the cars have been around a few years and continually improved. They are easy to live with and cost less to maintain than a Ferrari. Of course when buying one get one that has been DRIVEN and maintained with records. Overall the cars for maint dont need constant care in any way. One timing belt that can be changed with the motor in the car and the belt is good for 100k miles or changed at 5 yrs. Thats the rule of thumb from Lotus Cars USA for a 4 cyl car. Use Mobil 1 and change it at 3k miles with the higher temps the turbo creates. I use the stock NGK plug they come out out every 15k according to the book.You can change em in about 15min on a 4cyl Turbo. Brake pads are about 50-70 bucks a pair and the clutches are durable as long as you dont drag race the car or ride it at lights etc. I had 46k miles on my 86 Turbo clutch and it was very very tight. My S4 was bought with 6k miles on it. I paid for a full service with timing belt and spent 700 bucks, and drove from Phoenix to Atlanta after the purchase and had a blast. Valves should be looked at at 25k miles and if you havent driven the car too hard they probably wont need an adjustment at all. There are no big deals with these cars as the motor doesnt have to come out for any type of major routine service at all. Yep they are undervalued and that makes the exotic ownership experience affordable both for purchase and maintenance. The cars are very very quick and handle nicely. I know its not a Ferrari, its a Lotus with the heritage of a man who had a defined formula for performance and handling and while he was alive Lotus did very well indeed in Formula 1. I hope to attain a Ferrari of course as I love both marques. If you have a Ferrari and do find interest in Lotus I have owned 3 turbos and will help out if needed with any info or contacts I have at Lotus Cars USA in Atlanta. They are very very helpful, they have a web page and the phone number is 1-800 24 Lotus. Ask for Dwayne, the Field Service Engineer. He is very helpful with maint questions or info on purchase tips on what to look for on different models. I moved from Atlanta to New Orleans and they looked my car over and made sure I was good to go before moving, and they never minded me hanging around the warehouse admiring the new Elise race cars or new V8 Esprits when I had an off day from flying. They have always treated me as if I was Bill Gates even though I didnt buy a new one. Being a small company here in the US you will find them to be very easy to contact and give personal service. Thats nice to have these days. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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What was different on the S4? | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Maybe all the NY/NJ people can plan a track day when raceway park finishes building its road course. | ||
| Michael Fennell (Mfennell70)
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Tom, I'm in Middletown, NJ. About 50 miles south of RS. | ||
| Jim Ewing (Jimpo1)
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Hey Sean, I'll trade you a drive in my 328 for a drive in your Lotus. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
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Michael Where are you located. I live right near rs motor sports in NJ | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
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Michael: Interesting maintenance history. Makes my Europa really seem cheap; half the stuff you did my car doesn't even have!*S* I love 60's technology; seems very organic. | ||
| Michael Fennell (Mfennell70)
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What can I add? I love my '95 Esprit S4s. It's the last of the 4cyl cars with 300hp. Maintenance seems to be about 1/2 of 348/355 Ferraris. The equivalent of a 30k service, for example, is about $2000 from an official Lotus dealer. The shop manual retails for about $150 and it is very easy to get technical information about the cars. That's one thing that really appealled to me and probably what tipped me towards Lotus. Most parts prices are quite reasonable, too. I'm upgrading my lower control arms right now. Retail price on each arm is $275. Retail on both arms, all bushings, and both balljoints is about $850 *AND* I can get 20% off of that from my favorite parts vendor, Paul Spruell Lamborghini. You can review much of my car's service history at http://www.exit109.com/~mfennell/lotus/service Yes, the trans needed a rebuild. 2nd gear chipped a tooth. I didn't own it at the time. The PO spent lavishly on the car too, paying for things like fixing rattles, etc., that I would have done myself. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Sean, the local Dallas FerrariChat'ers get together now and then, I'll put you on the list. Nice cars!!! | ||
| Sean Ruckel (Sruckel)
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I have done the Ferrari / Lotus comparison many times as well. When I first looked for an exotic, I was comparing the 308 and the turbo 4 cyl. Esprit, and I chose the Lotus for two reasons - the Lotus outperformed the Ferrari and the maintenance was much less. Later, I was comparing the 348 with the Esprit V8, and again I chose the Lotus for the same two reasons. But, as much as I love my Lotus, there is something to be said about having a Ferrari. I still have plans to own one - unfortunately, buying a home has delayed that for now. Nothing can beat the looks, the sound of the engines, and the whole experience. Anyway, for a great informative website about the Esprit, check out www.espritfactfile.com. Also, as billy zissis (89tr) offered, if anyone in the Dallas area wants to compare the Esprit V8, let me know. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
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I love my 72 Lotus Europa. It's a real race car in the spirit of the 50's Ferraris, where you'd take your Ferrai to the track on Sat. and . It makes little pretense to luxury in spite of the power windows. People still autocross Europas and win. It's truly a track car for the road. Esprits are Lotus' attempt to compete in the 'luxury' exotic market with Ferrari et. al. and they did a pretty good job in spite of the resale prices being poor. Esprits are done in a year as critical parts are no longer available. The Elise will be US legal next year or sooner; it's an updated Europa in approach. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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You gotta give Lotus credit though, they've had some long-standing designs/concepts. Look at the Lotus Seven: Conceived in 1957, its still being produced today (albeit by Caterham Cars, but still the same design/concept). The Esprit: 26+ years continuous. Dated design, yes, constantly improved, yes. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
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one slight correction: ferrari has had power steering on some of its 12 cyl cars for years:365 2+2;365gtc/4.(Granted, both were big cruisers, not lithe sports cars).348 didn't have it,355 did; i preferred the 348 much for that reason, not because of build quality,which was greatly improved in the later car.But wasn't chapman's whole premise lightening the car to improve the power to weight ratio as well as handling? how did the esprit fit into that? i remember the elan and the europa, which were little more than go-carts; and have seen pictures of that current stripped down track racer, the 340 (correct me if i'm wrong), based on, i believe the elise. but wasn't the esprit in a sense a compromise of chapman's guiding principles? In the supposedly golden days of ferrari, before my time, i believe the dealer network and service were probably no better than that of lotus. ferrari would not have survived the 70's without FIAT's subsidy; look at the fortunes of Lambo, with its iffy ownership commitment until recently.(Perhaps you are right in the sense that survival necessitates compromise. Look at the criticisms by many of the new Lambo). | ||
| Mark (Study)
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The web would be a cheap way for a company like Lotus to solve its marketing problems. Guys into exotics do their homework. And the loss of value.. cars dropping from $90k to $20k seems to be a problem with the used car market. I'd pick one up if I could just find a good source of information so I could learn a bit about what to expect. I think the big drop in value is because people are afraid to take a chance on the used car market with the company. How much would it cost for Lotus to sponser a good www site? | ||
| D Jenn (Denman)
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Good looking lineup there Rob. Isn't that a white Lotus to the right as well? | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
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That they lose value, it is true. It is these misconceptions that continues this depreciation. But then again, buying a car is never a good investment. Actually, Lotus has been as reliable if not more than the Ferrari. The old 4 cylinder are bulletproof. They are just like the 911. They have almost 30 years of evolving experience. The 8 cylinders have been out for a few years and have been nothing but a success. The demise of the esprit is a shame though only because of bad marketing. That is Lotus problem, it is its marketing that sucks and its dealer support. Lotus still believes that if people like the car they will still buy it with its shortcomings. Ferrari beleved that also but then they started listening to the customers gripes and they built the 355, the 456, and the maranello. Who would have thought 10 years ago of putting power steering on a Ferrari? That would have been considered sacrilege. A Ferrari user friendly? No way. But Ferrari took the user friendly course and that is why they have prospered. Lotus still lacks that understanding. The reason for the demise of the Esprit which has been around since 1976 is only because of the depletion of transmissions, (which is the biggest gripe amongst Lotus owners). Can you imagine stopping the production of the 911 because they ran out of transmissions? A shame. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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The one on the far side of my 328 and the GT4 is my friend's Lotus...  | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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late 80, early 90 Esprits are going for low $20's. | ||
| D Jenn (Denman)
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Yep, that's the problem with the Lotus Esprit's is that they don't hold their value too well. The one I was looking for was $64k with 6k miles and when new - its a 2000 model - it was $89k. My 348 wouldn't lose as much value now comparatively. A car is meant to be driven though and depreciation aside, its a great automobile that I wouldn't mind having next to my F-car. I did have that nagging feeling that as soon as I picked up the Lotus, they would either change the body style or as Mark stated drop it for good. That Elise is actually quite the performer with numbers similar to the Esprit's since its so light. What is the future of Lotus? Good question. I don't know what the maintenance is like on the Lotus but I would suspect it wouldn't be much more or would even be less than the Ferrari. Tim, I don't feel bad at all, I'm just glad I could hang with the Mitsu with all the work he's probably done. My 348 is as bone stock as they come! I'm not into drag wars with everyone but I'm in the camp that a car needs some go-fast to back up the looks and its pedigree. ~ I see a 360 in my future...OR maybe Koenig twin turbo my 348...OR hell, I'll just rip out the V-8 and put a Chevy big block back there...j/k! heh heh -Dennis | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
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I think an Elise would be a fun car to have for running errands around town. Not sure about Lotus reliability though. | ||
| Mark (Study)
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What is the future of Lotus ? I hear the Esprit is gone after this year. Is that for good? They dropped the replacement car that was supose to replace the Esprit. Decided not to make it at all. They are bringing over the Elease but with only 180hp (even though its a very small light weight car) that doesn't seem like much HP ? I have always wanted an Esprit but the reason $90k cars sell for $30k a few years later is that no one can keep one running unless they know how to do their own work. Car needs lots of care. I always wanted to learn more, but not a lot of good places to read up on the cars on the web. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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What is maintainence on a lotus? They seem like good values, a 93 esprit turbo that does 0-60 in 4.6 with a 2.2L 4cyl putting out 285hp costs around 30k. Thats a pretty good deal, maybe the extra performance will make up for the l;ack of ferrari sound and those traits that cant be named. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I live in NY and i would love to see what it could do. You should take it out on a future mini rally. Den, dont feel to bad, it was probably an eclipse GSX, which with a blow of valve, exhaust, bigger turbo, and a few other things can be a really fast car. But its a mitsu and you have a ferrari so who cares, obviously if you wanted a mitsu you would have one. I think esprit v8 turbos sound good, but they are no F355, even though they look so similar. I mistook one for a F355 from a distance buecause F355's are more common around me. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
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I own a Lotus v8twin turbo. Let me tell you these cars will run circles around the Ferrari. I know because I have 355 which it is always being compared to. You cannot compare the two cars because they are complete opposites. The Lotus is more of racer whereas the Ferrari has a hint of GT to it. Which do prefer to take out for a drive? I take the Lotus anyday. I am not badmouthing the Ferrari but the Lotus to me is more fun. And like I said before if anyone is interested in a Lotus and lives in the New York area I would love to show you what this car can really do. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Ferraris regardless of top speed or off ther line speed will always be King of the Hill. Human behavior proves that easily -- other cars always want to race us but we don't care about racing them... the best never has anything to prove, second best and below always need to prove themselves. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
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Dennis In the end unless you are driving a dragster there will always be cars out there which can beat you or keep up with you. And even so in a short distance many cars will be able to keep up. The key is they won't look as good as you do doing it. | ||
| D Jenn (Denman)
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Hi Guys, Been a lurker for a while, thought I'd join in the fun. I bought a Ferrari 348 about a couple of months ago and absolutely love the car (Thanks for the advice Dan), though it had some of those 348 problems - electrical: climate control, ECU, etc. But I bought it with the belt change and service and the pre-owned Ferrari warranty. Wouldn't you know it the warranty didn't cover the ECU. After having it a month, I had some problems with the door handle, engine cover and fuel cover release handles and the check engine light would come on cutting power. It was that ECU I was talking about - well.....back to the shop. At that point I didn't get to really enjoy the car. After a week, I had just barely gotten everything fixed on the car when just the other day a 2000 lotus esprit V8 twin turbo caught my eye at the dealership - Steve Harris, great bunch of guys BTW - I seriously considered trading the 348 in -already! I've always wanted a Lotus , great color and it looked awesome. It's a lot faster than the 348 (0-60 - 4.4sec.) Every time I touched the accelerator I felt like I was being squeezed out of a tube of toothpaste when the turbos would kick in. The shifting is tricky though since I'm used to the 348 shifting pattern. The throws are really short and I kept trying to start in 2nd... The ride was pretty firm and when I hit an expansion joint it would feel like it was bottoming out a bit. Cornering was great too but any car with power steering just doesn't give me the feedback the 348 does. The leather kind of creaked because I had the chair back so far that it rubbed the back wall so that kind of annoyed me. I did like the very low seating position but the visibility was hindered a bit due to the back wing. I don't think you get as many looks in the Lotus as you do in the Ferrari either. All in all, the Lotus was awesome and when I got back from the test drive I had to stand back and admire the lines of the car for a while and I almost bought it on the spot. I decided to think about it and that night I decided to take my 348 out for a nice long drive. I haven't really had a chance to drive my car because of the winters in Utah, plus the aforementioned problems so this was the acid test. After the crazy warm up procedure - first to third gear for 5 minutes - I finally achieved Ferrari nirvana. The 348 was feeling so good, shifting was like butter and the steering feel was spot on plus everything was working for once. I was thinking, what the hell was I thinking trading the Ferrari. When I got home, a friend stopped by and we took it up town for another spin, it was about 1:30 in the morning so there weren't any cars. I was getting on the onramp of the freeway to come home and punched it up the ramp, right away, a souped up Mitsubishi Eclipse behind me, straight out of the movie The Fast and the Furious shot right past me. He slowed down and I caught up to him, we were rolling along at about 70 mph when I downshifted into third and punched it. I'd love to tell you guys that I blew him away, but we were neck and neck to 120 when 1) he slammed on his brakes 2) he used his nitrous up 3) blew his engine ...heh heh. The moral of this story? I thought, damn, if I was driving the Lotus, I would have smoked him. I do have to give him Kudos, though; he was quick and no way was that a stock Eclipse, or it better not be! Later that night on the lonely stretch of highway, I did get it up to 150mph and my friend looked over and said, "wow, It doesn't feel like 150" I love the Lotus but even my friend thought it was trading down, "what, you want to trade in your Ferrari for a Lotus?" plus another friend likes the looks of the 348 much more than the Lotus. The great thing about the Lotus is that its a virtually brand new car, year 2000. Good or bad, Lotus hasn't changed the body style for 20-30? years. My wife didn't like the Looks of the Lotus, but then again she's not so hot on my 348 either. She likes the "bubbly" Porsche look. Women.......(shaking head) In the end, I'm keeping my Ferrari. There will be cars faster or just as fast as my Ferrari like that Eclipse but in the end, I'm still driving home in a Ferrari. Plus I just signed up for FOC and I damn well can't do any of the events in a Lotus, Maybe I can buy it as a fourth car? hmmmm - Dennis | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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Sounds nice. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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I think an 88 or 89, it doesn't have the rear spoiler and it's a 4 cylinder turbo. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
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What year was the Esprit? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Friend is trading in a Lotus Esprit over the next month, so he gave me the keys for a drive. The feel of the car is very similar to the 328. They handle about the same. I like how you're down in a cockpit with center console up high. The best thing I like about the Lotus? It's a lot quicker than the 328. R&T by the numbers says it's only a 0.6 second difference in the 0-60, but it felt like more. The Lotus is quick, even right off the line. I didn't really test it much at the high end, so maybe that's where the 328 gets some speed back. I love the turbo feeling and sound. About the only thing I have against the car would be the sound of the engine compared to a Ferrari and the looks, although good, are nothing compared to Ferrari. The Lotus is a great car for a great price, but it's still no Ferrari. |