| Author | Message | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
New member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2002 |
Peter... A couple of heads shots for you...In reality, these cars aren't that difficult to work on, seems they just require extreme attention to detail to get right, i.e. make reliable.   | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 760 Registered: 9-2001 |
I like the 365 too, but there are not many around to be had, damn | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 279 Registered: 2-2002 |
The 365GT4BB - the best boxer of the lot. I truly love this car. Always have done and always will do. David - I commend your intimate knowledge of the cars internals - apparently THIS is the car that even the authorised dealers may fear to work on. | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
New member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2002 |
Peter, The engine has been completely rebuilt...Everything, including pistonsand liners. I did all the work myself...and am (unfortunately?) intimately familiar with the internals of this car. However!!, I recently went through the heads again, due to the concern over the sodium valve issues and the recent leakdown tests revealed one cylinder with exhaust leakage. Despite the high parts costs involved, I replaced all the exhaust valves with the lastest non-sodium ones...as well as some extremely high quality (and cheap) American made guides. Notice the Aeroquip fuel lines...After a small carb fire...and numerous fuel leaks at the (hidden) carb hoses...I had enough. Easy to do, and moderate costs involved. (BTW...I've got a spare set of the unobtainable carb bodies, if you need them) Tom..Thanks for the compliment! David | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 198 Registered: 5-2001 |
David, I am in the process of building up a burnt 365. I am changing the valves to stainless as a couple of the original valves on mine were corroded at the stem as I stated in a earlier post. How much work has been done to your engine? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 757 Registered: 9-2001 |
David She is a thing of beauty | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
New member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2002 |
Going on 20 years of ownership with a 365BB...As to doing the timing belts with the engine in the car, I think not...Although possible, it is far easier to remove the engine then it is to change the RHS belt... I have done all the repairs and maintenance on this car from the first day of purchase...and am currently doing a little "freshening up", including a transaxle overhaul. Feel free to fire those BB questions... Regards, David    | ||
| Joseph Caretti (Pino)
New member Username: Pino Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2002 |
There was a nice one sold at an auction listed in this week's AutoWeek magazine. The small article went on to say that BB's prices are on their way up again for various reasons. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 313 Registered: 12-2001 |
If you are looking for a one-off, a speciale, there was a boxer being offered in Conn. (a post about the car was on that "other" site, the F-list): car was allegedly bought new by owner who, after a few miles, thought it did not have enough oomph. Had Francois Sicord (sp?) install a BB/LM engine in it, and, i assume , made other improvements as well. Car looks largely stock. Dennis Lui on the "list" knows the guy who is offering it (can't remember if he is the first owner, but is someone who has owned quite a few good cars). don't know if the car is still available but you might post there, with this data in mind, if you are serious about a "special" boxer. I think he wanted regular boxer money for the car. Of course, you will need Francois to work on it for you, but, ... | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
New member Username: Davem Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2002 |
Tom It was nice meeting you at WWOC's tech day last Sunday. Looking at E-bay about a week ago there was a red Konieg 512 listed from the metro NYC area. The reserve seemed strangely low not sure if you looked at it. I was curious about the car myself as i think the BB's are simply gorgeous an would love to have one myself. BTW the Konieg conversion is probably not my idea of an improvement, not sure how you feel. Happy hunting! Dave | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 756 Registered: 9-2001 |
jim any comments on it, says it won a third at concours in dallas - not sure how strong a field it was though | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 755 Registered: 9-2001 |
yeah, I saw that one, I am checking it out | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 458 Registered: 7-2001 |
There was a gorgeous BBi for sale in Dallas last month, we all saw it at Norwoods. I think it's now for sale at Exotic Car World. Click the ad link above. | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
New member Username: Drewa Post Number: 29 Registered: 2-2002 |
I believe all 365BB's had the black boxer bottom. Maybe all 512BB's had it also. However, I believe the BBi's came in both solid and black boxer bottoms. I have the Nichols book and in it there are pictures of solid colored BBi's at the factory. Look at the FML under the BBi section. There are a lot of solid colored cars. I don't think this many people have repainted the fiberglass portion to match the upper color. Hope this helps. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 754 Registered: 9-2001 |
thats what I thought - part of the boxer design - I have seen people paint there 3X8 this way too | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 436 Registered: 10-2001 |
All Boxers had the black lower panel originally. | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2002 |
Correct if I am wrong guys, but the black is the original way of the boxer. Owners have gone and finished off the black area with the color of the car-I prefer solid color IMO. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 753 Registered: 9-2001 |
I see that some have the two tone paint while other don't. Which way is correct - maybe both? | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
Junior Member Username: Srandrsn Post Number: 117 Registered: 4-2001 |
Theres an 81 on e-bay right now that might be worth looking into...black and red, $ in the low 40's right now...strange that it would sell for that little but you never know | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
New member Username: Drewa Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2002 |
Tom, I had a major service done on the car just after I bought it. The engine came out to access the belts and most people do the water pump at the same time. Once set up it should be good to go for several years. The weber carbs are the same as used on the Porsche only there are twice as many. So its not that difficult to get someone to set them up. The HP listed for the 365BB was originally 380. The Nichols book, which I have, says it was actually closer to 360. The quoted HP for the BB and BBi's were 360 but actually were closer to 340. The biggest drivability difference between the 512BB and BBi's is stated that the BBi was tuned for better bottom and midrange performance with the carbed cars having the higher top end. Go to Mike Sheehan's site www.ferraris-online.com, click under articles and read the one from January 2000. Sheehan probably has had the most Boxers to do a side by side comparison. Good luck. The first time you light a Boxer up it will bring a smile to your face. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 748 Registered: 9-2001 |
The car seems to have pretty good access to the engine - but most people I have talked to say you need to take it out. Ken there is prob a way to do it with it in | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2002 |
Peter: My understanding was that the engine does not have to be removed from a BB or BBi for a major service. I know of several mechanics that do the major service with belts while the engine is still in the car. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 747 Registered: 9-2001 |
thanks for all the info, I did not know about the valve situation - is it on all BB's? Drew, i would love to read the articles - I will email you my fax number , thanks | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 197 Registered: 5-2001 |
The BBi where actually quicker and more powerful than the carb cars as the torque spred was flatter with more useable power delivery over the rev range. The one thing to look at is maintenance records as the engine has to come out for any major service. If you find a low mileage BB, then the first thing to do (if not already done and recorded) is pull the motor, remove the heads and replace all valves, guides and cam seals. The bb's had sodium filled valves which corrode at the stems. This is an age related problem more than mileage. With age these valves are prone to letting go at high revs with disasterous results. Most well maintained and driven BB's would have had this changed to stainless steel by smart owners, but a few garage queens out there would still have the original valves. BB's were also prone to spark plug thread damage in the heads due to the angles. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2001 |
I had a BBi and loved it; i bought it as a garage queen and put a fair amount of $ into it to get in mechanically perfect. I put 10k miles on it in a year, and drove it from NY to Florida without a hiccup. They are great cars, but don't go bargain hunting here cause a cheap car that needs parts and labor will cost more in the long run. I agree that the carb'd cars are nicer in some respects, but there were some suspension changes in the BBi. Has anyone really compared their performance first hand, cause the carb'd 512 probably had overstated horsepower figures. It was my understanding that the fastest ones were the 365/bb's which are really scarce. i also really hated the metric wheel tire stuff cause you were stuck driving on the equivalent of snow tires. Guy i know (broker) eddie Karem gets pristine boxers from time to time, super low mileage, but plan on sinking some bread into the car for engine work, new hoses, shocks, etc. They are great cars: if you truly decide on the carb'd ones, buy the out of print book by Nichols on the boxer. Its a treasure trove. | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
New member Username: Drewa Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2002 |
Tom, I've had a 79 512BB for about 3 years now. I am very happy with it. I looked at several BBi's and just wanted something a little more brutal. Its a great car to blast around in during weekends. The BBi's are easier to start, doesn't foul plugs as much and are a little more refined than the carbed 512; probably better on a longer trip. There are a lot more injected cars for sale in the USA than carbed cars probably due to the fact that it was easier to make them meet EPA requirements. FORZA did an article on them as did Prancing Horse magazine #85 and #86 ( I think). If you would like I'd be happy to copy the articles and fax them to you. Regards, Drew Alemara | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 269 Registered: 2-2002 |
P.S. MEGA MEGA running costs (relatively speaking) - a very standard regular service is an engine-out job - it's worth it though! | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 268 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'd imagine they are all Euros because the carbed 365GT4BB had difficulty meeting tighter US emissions controls - thats actually the reason Ferrari introduced FI to clean the car up - hence the loss of grunt. I personally have always loved the original BB - scary, beautiful, brutal, sexy and a great great noise (were they webers....) fantastic! Get one!!! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 744 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am looking at a 79 yellow on black with 30k miles. It is sweet. I guess I will find out about the papers and who did the conversion. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 743 Registered: 9-2001 |
yeah that is what I am thinking. I see a lot of nice ones in the 70s. It is one of the cheaper 2 seater 12s. I like the TRs too. | ||
| Kirk Stevenson (Miuraguy)
New member Username: Miuraguy Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bob is correct...All Boxers are European... it's important to check for proper EPA and DOT papers prior to purchase. You want to make sure that the conversion work was done. I've heard that the BBi's are a little more user friendly than the carbureted Boxers. Although all those carbs are very tempting! You can't go wrong with a Boxer these days...they really seem to be great buys now...I guess because they aren't the "flavor of the month". I've heard that $65k will get you a really nice one. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
New member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2002 |
All are Euro cars. Make sure you get full paperwork on the conversion. Love those BB's!! | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 199 Registered: 9-2001 |
I believe they are all euros, it was never imported to the US by the factory. BTW a carbed boxer is my next lust car. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 742 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am considering getting a 12 and I really like the boxers. I think I prefer the carbed model due to better sound and more power. anything to look out for other than the normal stuff on either a bb or bbi. also, pardon my ignorance but why are most of these euros?? |