| Author |
Message |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Junior Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 59
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 1:36 pm: | |
One of the reasons that a dented F1 car just leavs the race is that the points stop at 6th place. No reason to push a dangerous car around a track and risk more damage and expenses.
In NASCAR there are points for every car in the starting field. So after a big wreck, you get the car running, put a few more laps on, adn voila, you get 10-30 more points than if you just parked it after the wreck. You are no longer racing, but still getting points--does this make any sense? |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 499
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 7:36 pm: | |
What really impressed me about F1 is that the drivers will take those cars which cost millons of dollars and put them so close together in the turns and sometimes even touch. I takes a huge amount of skill IMO to drive those cars at the level they are driven. More so the NASCAR. The same thing goes for the Indy 500. They are going 225-230 and sometimes it is unreal how close they get to each other. It takes a lot of nerve to drive like that. That is not to say I don't respect the NASCAR drives. To me open wheel racing is just on a much higher level. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 415
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 7:22 pm: | |
Sorry, but I absolutely detest Demolition Derby... oh, sorry, I mean NASCAR. I find it completely boring and I'd rather watch paint dry than 175 hicks drive 475 laps around a circle in their Ford. I am not saying that I don't respect the drivers, because every form of motorsport requries skill. In F1 passing is an event in itself because it is so difficult, in NASCAR every three seconds there is a pass along one of the four turns. Drivers can rub, hit, bang, touch, etc etc. Do this in an F1 car and you are out of the race. Hey, I realize to each his own, but it aint exactly my cup of tea... Going around a SuperSpeedway (ie glorified circle) is not my idea of excitement.
Ernesto |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1006
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 6:51 pm: | |
Nascar is not what it looks like from the outside either. In nascar its setup, setup, setup. In F1 its also that, but more who has more money. A poorly funded NASCAR team can do better than a poorly funded F1 team. At least with nascar if the car taps the wall, it isnt out of the race. With F1 the cars break to easily. With nascar, especially on the really short tracks, its not unusal to see cars without fenders or hoods because they got too banged up. Also, its not unusual for every car to have body damage. On the bigger tracks and superspeedways a bent up car usually sucks for aerodynamics reasons though. The point is each form is good, but i just like nascar more, its so much more exiting. Races usually end with no more than a car length lead, often times its a hood length. How often does that happen in F1. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 229
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 9:13 am: | |
Driving an oval in the rain is a highly scary suggestion! Actually Goodyear experimented briefly with oval track rain tires years ago, but wisely shelved them.
Driving at Monaco must be like running full speed along a tightrope with a hoard of bees in close pursuit. The drama in that race lies in what DOESN'T happen and the efforts taken to avoid it. |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Junior Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 9:07 am: | |
The most interesting parts about the Monaco race were the crashes--no yellows, no pace cars! The drivers had to do------well-----drive around the problem, rather than be given a vacation from the race for 10 minutes. I hate Yellows, and expecially reds. I think NASCAR would be a lot better racing if they actually had to drive the ovals in the rain. That would separate the men from the boys--F1 has already done that! |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 228
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 8:21 am: | |
I think that I have a better than average understanding of oval track racing, Frederick. I was Director of Marketing for CART in 1983 and I have seen them from the inside. I've also done some work on the NASCAR circuit.
Even checkers has strategy. Don Panoz' point was that oval track racing is relatively transparent. The average fan can detect MOST of what's going on. Most road racing newbies are completely baffled by their first experiences.
That said, I love all types of racing. This week my son and I will probably visit the local short track and I always try to see sprint cars on dirt at least once a season. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 498
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 7:11 am: | |
I think there is more to oval track racing then you think. The Indy 500 this weekend it a good example. Castroneves (sp) and team penske took a huge gamble and left him out on the track and he finished with about a half a laps worth of fuel. Also when you have two equaly fast cars, setting up for a pass is no easy task. Pit strategy plays a big part in it. Restarts are also very exciting, watching the guy in the lead try to get a good jump on the field knowing that the guy behind him is waiting to pounch on him if he makes a mistake. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 227
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 6:34 am: | |
As Don Panoz once said, Oval Track racing is like checkers and Road Racing is like chess. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 641
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 11:38 pm: | |
Matt -
Great points/post! I'm also a newbie to F1 (my first season catching every race) and am working on finding these nuances, that make this such an interesting sport. I know there is a tremendous amount if information out there on F1 (how many webistes alone!), so I'm taking the learning process slowly, instead of suffering from information overload. But as well I could see how if someone were to watch the 2002 Monaco GP as their first and only F1 experience, I could see how they could find it less than "thrilling". I took a special friend with me (very NOT into sports of any kind) to a local watching of the 2002 Austria GP, they found they race enjoyable and interesting to watch, not an instant fan, but it did hold the attention span.
OK that was more than $0.02 worth
-Ben |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Junior Member
Username: Squidracing
Post Number: 110
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:43 pm: | |
Regarding my reference to Mercedes, I am refering to the fact that their powerplant is believed to be a minimum of 70 horsepower less than those of BMW and Ferrari. Ferrari caught up with BMW in the offseason, and it looks as if Mercedes did nothing during the same time. |
Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Junior Member
Username: Squidracing
Post Number: 109
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:39 pm: | |
F1 racing is not just about the racing itself. There are tremendous amounts of subplots which are played out during every race. The constructors put so much effort into making these 'beyond state of the art' machines, that it is all about bragging rights as well. How does one think Mercedes is being perceived by the world of F1 fans? I am using the assumption that the readers here are aware that F1 is the third most watched sport worldwide, following only soccer and the olympics. Can Michelin beat Bridgestone and visa-versa? Who makes the best chasis for the power circuits, or the tight circuits, or both? Whose windtunnel work pays off the best? Whose chief aerodynamist is the best? Can one organisation singlehandedly create a better car than a group of two, in which each focuses on the engine or chasis? How did Ferrari catch BMW this season in the engine department?
What I am getting at is that yes....there are more exciting forms of motor racing than F1. If one watches F1 and judges it solely on how many lead changes take place per race, then it is probably not the right form of racing for them to watch. MotoGP shows tons of passing (and is awesome to watch those guys race). Nascar shows passing as well. WRC showcases some of the most talented drivers around. The simple fact about F1 racing, is that it is composed of the worlds most talanted open wheel racecar drivers. They have the most technologically advanced machines in the world. It is the sexiest form of open wheel racing. The manufacturers use the sport for bragging rights and to stimulate car sales.
Im not saying anyone here is right or wrong, Im just pointing out that there are tremendous, tremendous differences between F1 and other forms of automobile racing, and those nuances should be understood when deciding whether one chooses to become a fan of F1 or not. |
Tim N (Timn88)
Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 999
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:11 pm: | |
Ben-
I assumed that because this was a street course it wouldnt be as fast or exciting as a track, so i'll wait and see. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 640
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 9:44 pm: | |
Tim,
I couldn't agree with Dave(Maranelloman) more, this I think was the SLOWEST (speed and entertainment value - strictly from a racing perspective) race of the season. There were great views, sounds (the tunnel!), and a few crashes to keep us entertained meanwhile. Check out a few more GP's before passing full judgement. Some of the races are FAR more exciting than others, that's just the way the sport is, like many sports if you were to look at season as a whole. Some contests are better than others.
-Ben |
bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
New member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 9:17 pm: | |
Apples and Oranges |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Junior Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 189
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 9:12 pm: | |
I meant no disrespect to the NASCAR folks. I never suggested they weren't talented drivers--they have to be to drive those beasts as fast, and as closely, as they do every weekend. I was merely saying that circle-track racing is not my cup of tea. This also goes for the Indy 500, sprint cars, and most IRL events, not just stock cars. |
Tim N (Timn88)
Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 994
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 5:04 pm: | |
Jack, thats a good point. Last night's coca-cola 600 was 5 hours long, thats pretty rough on a driver. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 336
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 4:39 pm: | |
While NASCAR isn't my favorite form of racing, I could never think of those driver as any less talented than open wheelers. To call it "going in circles" really understates what they go through, both mentally and physically. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 413
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 3:51 pm: | |
NASCAR? What is that?
Ernesto |
Tim N (Timn88)
Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 993
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 3:35 pm: | |
Dave, people dont realize how good the NASCAR drivers are. They are truly phenominal. |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Junior Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 187
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 3:24 pm: | |
Tim, Monaco is an anamoly (sp.?), as there is rarely any passing unless someone screws up. This is due to it being run on city streets in a tiny little town hanging over the side of the Med, with narrow little streets. Qualifying usually determines the race. But give F1 a chance--there is usually a lot of passing in Montreal (next race), U.S., and many other Grands Prix. NASCAR has its own merits, but, IMO, going round & round is not one of them. However, 2 of my favorite races of the year are when NASCAR does the road courses at Sears Point & Watkins Glen. Now, THAT'S racing!! Seeing these guys wrestle those 3600 pound monsters around these road courses is a real treat--and some of them are VERY good road racers! |
Tim N (Timn88)
Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 988
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 2:06 pm: | |
I saw that race on ABC. It wsa the first time i ever saw an F1 race. All i can say is i could not wait for NASCAR to come on to releive the pain of such a boring race. There was hardly any passing and no lead changes!! Thats not fun to watch! There definately are more passes in one NASCAR race than in an entire F1 season. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 334
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 11:27 am: | |
Are you referring to Ralf's "no team orders" comment, when asked about getting by Montoya? |
Randy (Schatten)
Member
Username: Schatten
Post Number: 310
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 8:03 pm: | |
yeup! I caught it, as I'm sure most people did! and thanks for the no spoiler content. =) |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 219
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 5:36 pm: | |
i don't know if it's gotten everywhere yet with the time delay, so no spoilers, but watch through to the post-race press released - there's an amusing Team Ferrari jab :-)
doody. |