| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Junior Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 202 Registered: 8-2001 |
Frank, I think you like to get to people. Maybe that is one of the reasons you are a good attorney. Dave | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 943 Registered: 9-2001 |
I like your rational Bill. If they would have kept the Dino name on the 308GT4, 308, 328, 348, 355 and now 360 it would have became a well respected name through out the world . After all, it should be the looks and performance of the cars that gives them respect, not just the name plate. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 263 Registered: 2-2002 |
I don't think that Frank is entirely wrong about the Dino brand name. The arguments I've read against it here are mainly saying that the name doesn't hold as much cache as Ferrari. Well, how could it? They wimped out and didn't give it a chance, in my opinion. I'm not advocating changing all non-twelve Ferrari's back to Dino's, but I think they should have stuck it out a little longer. After all, what is Maserati but a Porsche alterrnative from Ferrari, exactly as Dino was intended to be. Let's hope they're smarter about it this time. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
New member Username: Manatee Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2002 |
Frank, absolutely NO disrepect meant, but when it comes time to sell your car, will you advertise it as a Ferrari 348, or a Dino 348 ? | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Junior Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 201 Registered: 8-2001 |
Sorry Frank, in the mid 1960s, I was going to school full time, working full time, working part time plus partying. Did not see many movies. I will try to find a copy of the movie. If you do sell your "Dino" 348 (which I would recommend against, but they are my values) and I also buy it, it will become a Ferrari 348. I think the Ferrari name is too much of a marketing tool to ever be changed to Dino. Have you seen any Dino shoes lately ???? LOL, Dave | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 792 Registered: 9-2001 |
Frank Great info - what name should be on Schmui's v 10 mid engine? where does a 512 boxer and TR stand? | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
New member Username: Manatee Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2002 |
Frank, I did not know son Dino was named after a deceased brother. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 738 Registered: 8-2001 |
A separate line for lower cost cars would be OK. But I think Ferrari already have their hands full with Maserati. Frank, If the car says it's a Ferrari and the factory label it as such, who am I to argue? Besides, the factory already learned a lesson on how well the Dino brand sold the first time around.  | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 941 Registered: 9-2001 |
Grand Prix was a great F1 movie of the mid 1960s that showed Enzo in his daily driver, a blue 330GTC, a front engined V12. And Willis, V6 and V8 Ferraris are Dinos, which is a great name by the way. I am the proud owner of a Dino 348 Spider and have owned a Dino 328GTS as well. Enzo must have liked the name too as he named his son Dino(after his deceased brother) and chose that name as his first mid-engined road car. I wish Ferrari would bring back the Dino name for all mid-engined road cars ! Don't you Willis ? | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Junior Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 199 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thanks for the info Frank. I did not realize that. People like me who first saw a Ferrari on TV think of Ferraris as mid engined cars. The laws of physics seem to suggest that mid-engined cars would be less stable and have more of a tendency to spin out. I assume this is true. Is it? So Enzo would be right in this respect. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. Mid engined cars seem to be faster. I assume this is due to better traction from more weight on the rear wheels. However, modern design might cancel this advantage. Am I correct? Ross, I do not know if I would ever say that a Ferrari would not drop below a price. From FML it appears that 348s are now declining about 7 % a year and this rate appears to be increasing. I see nothing in the world economy to change this. I am not a Ferrari afficionado (and never will be), but I like beautiful, fun things. I like the looks of the TR, 348, and 360. In my eyes they are more beautiful. The looks of a 550 (which I like) does not move me as much as the above 3 cars. I copied photos from the Internet and put different similar painted/interior cars side by side. I liked the 348 over the 355 although I am sure the 355 will handle far better. I showed the photos to several people who are lovers of cars and beauty, but not Ferrari afficionados. They liked the 348 better. I also took Frank's silver 348 photo from his profile and pasted it beside a red/black 348 Spider. His looked better - it did bring out the lines better. I did the same think with medium blue vs red. The blue was better. Black left me dead. I showed the photos to others. Everyone liked the silver or blue better. Part of the future value will depend on the type of person mainly buying Ferraris. Will it be Ferrari afficionados? Will it be lovers of beauty and cars who can afford it? I do not know. As for me, I want to have the highest milage 348 Spider (or 360) in the world. Then the people I leave behind or the organization I leave it to can worry about the value. But I will have gotten my enjoyment from it. Dave PS: sorry if this is a little off topic. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 736 Registered: 8-2001 |
With exceptions to some early cars, that argument about all V8 cars being "Dinos" don't cut it anymore. It might be to some purists (is that anything like religious extremists?), but all the labels in my 360 says that it's a Ferrari. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 102 Registered: 3-2002 |
manu, u r right about that one: the 348 spider is great vfm. they came along late in the run and so have all the goodies and little of the bad points and fantastic looks. you can probably pick up a lhd version for as low as �40k and i doubt if it will ever drop below that. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 939 Registered: 9-2001 |
Dave, Enzo disagreed with you. Enzo fought for years with his engineers against making a mid engined Ferrari. A famous quote of his was "...a horse always pulls a wagon, they never push one..." It wasn't until mid engined F1 cars started regularly beating Ferraris in the early 1960s did Enzo consent to changing his front drive F1 cars to mid engined. Ferrari never made a mid engined road car until 1973 with the 365GT4BB as the 206 and 246 were both badged as a Dino. The first mid engined Ferrrai road car was not made until over 25 years after Ferrari started making road cars. Most Ferrari afficionados consider a true Ferrari to be a front engined V12 with a mid engined V8 being a Dino. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 286 Registered: 2-2002 |
The 348 is easily THE best value for money Ferrari available in the UK. The difference between the 355 and 348 is relatively small, as compared to 360 and 355 - it is also arguably more 'Ferrari-looking' than either of its two successors - chuck in the fact that it is not a car for people who can't drive (namely testing good drivers), and it becomes a BARGAIN. It sounds nice, looks fab, and is also a rarer sight than 355s in this part of the world. I really quite like it. I think I might get one myself at some stage -perhaps an LHD example - a giallo Spyder.... | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 383 Registered: 3-2002 |
Doody, what all is involved when you "grok" a car? Just kidding. My opinion is that both the 360 & 550/575 will hold interest in the long term. Totally different, obviously, but both have beautiful lines. The reason I've never favored the TRs or 348s is because of their angular cuts. I feel the same way about the F60. Looks like they were trying to do too much when they drew it. It seems strange that model interest would change with regions. For me it had more to do with which model you first fell in love with as a kid. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
New member Username: Manatee Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2002 |
Supply, demand and alternatives. There just happens to be a low demand for Maranello's right now compared to the demand for 360's. The strong demand for 360's has kept the 355 values up. The supply of 355's have kept the values of 348's down. It will be interesting to see what happens to the pre-owned market when the economy turns around. Personally I think Maranellos are a terrific buy right now. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Junior Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 198 Registered: 8-2001 |
Many people new to Ferraris (including myself) think of Ferraris as rear (mid) engined cars. Could this hurt the prices of the 550s both now and in the future? After all, Frank, the 360 is a "true" Ferrari - it is mid-engined. No offense intended, but many think that way. Of course, I would have to get the Bar... - however it is spelled. dave | ||
| Kendall Kim (Kenny)
New member Username: Kenny Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2001 |
Why would 348's be prized over 355's anywhere in the world?? The 355 is a superior car in almost every aspect.. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2001 |
at the risk of skewing the discussion, i'd be interested to hear how the preowned f-car markets in various geographies behave. i can't imagine that they'd all behave similarly since buying a preowned f-car is hardly driven by trends or marketing. i find it very easy to believe that in the UK 348s are prized over 355s, for example, while in Asia the 355 is prized over 348s. and so on. are there big distinctions in how different locales behave? or is it more homogeneous than that? doody. | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2001 |
I also think people are attracted to the more aggressive design. Cars keep getting smoother and sleeker and less distinctive. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
New member Username: Dapper Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dont agree about the 348 Frank, its turned to being extremely popular over this side of the pond. They are selling like hot cakes. I guess this is in part due to 355 values still being so strong so its making a similarly modernish looking 348 look extremely good vfm. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 934 Registered: 9-2001 |
All valuable cars are rare, but not all rare cars are valuable. Many cars are rare because no one wanted them when they were new and no one wants them now. I afraid the 512M may fall in that group. The 512M suffers from the same perceived appearance problems of the TR and 348. While I love them, a lot of people don't. I believe the 550 will hold value long term as does the Daytona where the 360 will be just another V8 car in a few years. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2148 Registered: 5-2001 |
RAy, I have a 2001 as a consignment. Look at my website: www.4Ferrari.com. The car has all options (which makes a difference), was originally $225,000 plus lux. tax and the guy is giving it up for $ 200,000, maybe less. It has 600 miles on the clock and is flawless, books still in the plastic wrapper. (305) 867-7676 | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 731 Registered: 8-2001 |
The 512Ms are pretty rare cars (only 75 US spec. cars) so the prices on them should be up there. Love the 550 but can't get comfortable in it like the 360 for some reason. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 226 Registered: 11-2001 |
i totally agree, frank! where do people think the pricing will bottom out? it seems like it's been a slow and steady downward decline over the past 18 months or so. truth be told, i'm surprised they didn't hold at 150 - i was certain that was where market support would kick in. could they get to 125K? nice 512TRs are still commanding 95-105. 512Ms seem to be asking well more than some of the 97 and 98 550s. doody. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 284 Registered: 2-2002 |
The 550 Maranello wheelspins at 60mph - its also "drive of the century." | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 933 Registered: 9-2001 |
In the long run the 550 will be worth a lot more than the 360. The 550 is the bargin of the century so far ! | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 225 Registered: 11-2001 |
i can grok a very-low-mileage, perfect showroom condition 2000 asking 190 and selling for 180. if that's what you want, you'll pay for it. 1997s are starting to list at 159 and i've seen some PP 1997s list at 149. i kinda doubt you could find a 2001 for 160K (andrew do you have pointers?), but for 170 perhaps? you might find a high-mileage 2000 for 160 maybe. word on the street is that 550s aren't selling high. they're selling, but the prices have notably dropped since the start of the year. the 550s have not held their value like the 360s have. even 355 spider shopping i was astounded (annoyed?) that some of the 99s and 98s were still going above original MSRP. i think it has more to do with the high price point (people won't drop 200K+ on a used car) than anything else. but what do i know! :-) my two pennies, fwiw. doody. | ||
| Ray (F3606m)
New member Username: F3606m Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2002 |
Most dealership prices for the car around 2001 - 190K - 200K 2000 - 185K - 190K Am i missing something because Andrew you say the car should be selling for around 160K? If so where could i find a car at such a price? I would appreciate your help | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 356 Registered: 3-2002 |
Maranello's are going for the same price as a 360 modena right now..Personally I would look for one with around 5-10k miles. I would say about 160k for a 2001..a 98 or 99 would cost about 15-20k less..If you end up getting one with 10k miles..I would prefer that the 15k service not be performed..just so you could have it done at a dealer of your choice..you might also be able to have the owner take off a fair amount off the asking price for this service to be performed..whatever kind of 550 you get, you're buying a great ferrari! Enjoy! | ||
| Ray (F3606m)
New member Username: F3606m Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2002 |
I am looking to buy a 2001 Marnello how should mileage effect the price of the car? What would be a fair price to buy such a car? |