| Author | Message | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well I kind of fell into the stroker motor. I just went to rebuild the engine with larger valves and a little head work. When I got into the engine I realize that the crank needed to be replaced so instead I just bought the all forged crank, rods, and piston kit for $1000. Then I figured I probably overdid the car. I figure if I did then I will buy another stock Trans Am or Camaro to race in a lower class. Oh and I have no intention on cheating or running this car in any other class than what it is legal to run in. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 477 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jason: Getting sponsorship is difficult. I would start with those people you know and whose customer base would include people with an interest in performance and the demographics that racing attracts, i.e., 16 to 35 year old white males. An example of the types of businesses that cater to that specific group would be jeans manufacturers, people who supply performance parts for motorcycles and cars, motorcycle dealers, i.e., businesses who deal with that particular demographic group. I would contact an advertising agency, and ask them for the specific demgraphics of that group. You could also contact the SCCA and ask them for the specific demographics of their spectators. I'm sure that they keep that information, and they should make it available to you, if you are a competitor and a member. As to the stroker motor issue. I also found that you are only cheating when you are caught. The art of building a race vehicle is to extend the rules to the point where they throw you off the track. An example of something like that is Honda and Fords' use of the a low pressure area underneath the pop off valve in CART racing. That effectively gave them an extra 3 - 4 inches of boost. It wasn't until Honda's chief mechanic was hired by Toyota that they were caught. CART then changed the height of the pop off valve and all of a sudden neither Honda nor Ford were competitive, and the Toyotas were compeitive. You may recall the stink 1 or 2 years ago about that rule change. So I would do what you think is necessary to get enough HP to watch the leaders, and learn from them. When you get into the winner's circle, you better have a legal engine. Hope this helps. Art | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 415 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jason, I've known guys who have just put the names of companies (big or small) on their cars and gone racing. Then they take race photos of their cars around and show them to those companies. It has worked. Also, consider starting off with asking some garages to sponsor you in trade. Probably a better value than asking for $$. Especially since you're most likely to spend the cash there anyhow. You'll need to accumulate some results before anyone of importance will be interested. Or else, since you've been around the site a while, perhaps you can start a racing donation thread! So what if a Trans Am says "FerrariChat.com". | ||
| Michael Fennell (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 62 Registered: 7-2001 |
Not to be a jerk, but did you look into the different cars and classes before you built the car? My guess is that you now own a car with no place to competitively race it wheel to wheel. From the asedan website: "The main intent of these specifications is to restrict modifications to those useful and necessary to construct a safe competition automobile." That probably eliminates stroker motors! Most SCCA regions would probably let you race ITE but it would be hopelessly outclassed. Maybe NASA American Iron would be appropriate. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 90 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thanks I will look into that. In any case I have to start at the bottom. Any advice on getting sponsors? | ||
| Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member Username: Goggles_pisano Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2002 |
Maybe your car would be eligible for SCCA American Sedan-that class looks like total fun! Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds thrashing around like the original Trans-Am series. There is a website you can check out at http://www.asedan.com My two cents, anyways. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 89 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thank you all for the advice. I just want to drive the Bentley LM car and also the Prodrive Maranello. Anyway my racecar is a car I picked up a few months ago. It is a really nice '94 Trans Am. I haven't talked about it on here because this is the Ferrari board and reading some of the other posts here, some people don't like that. Anyway when I drove it home it wouldn't start and it was diagnosed as a blown head gasket. Well I picked this car up for just $4500, about half of what it should have been from it's condition, so I didn't mind putting some money into it. I told my wife that it would cost about $2000 to change the head gasket and add a few hop-up parts here and there. Well...I was only off by about $6000. In fact I am just in the middle of bolting the engine together and I should have it set into the car tomorrow. The machine shop said that I should have about 400hp and about 450ft/lb. I will get this dynoed to make sure, I really hate when people guess. Oh and it is now a stroker motor, that is where all the money went to. I think since I have put so much time and money into this car that I will just stick to the auto racing. I would like to know which racing club would get me the most exposure. SCCA or? Again guys thanks alot. I love this board and I always know that I can get good honest advice from here whether it is about my racing or my drawings. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 164 Registered: 2-2001 |
I also would've expected that Memo'd have a seat in open-wheel this season, Jon. Although not super-young, he's fast, American, and good with fans and sponsors. Seems like the right ingredients, IMO. A couple of other local karters, Alex Barron and George Mack, have IRL gigs this season. Perhaps Memo's soon to follow? As far as a career spawned from karting, Jason, I think it's where things are headed. As others have stated, karting has been a source for fast guys in Europe for a while now - with the time span between karts and F1 decreasing more and more. Kimi Raikkonen being a prime recent example. High-level open wheel racing was, at one time, pretty much a rich guy's game. Rich guys are often old guys and so the average entrant tended to have some mileage. That, and having bank doesn't guarantee skill. The influx of corporate money in modern big-league racing and the associated need for scoreboard has made it a fast guy's game. Fast guys are identified at a young age and compete at the top levels at a young age (while they're still fast). For CART to survive, it will need a fast American or ten. They will come from karting. And so, most likely, will the next U.S.-born F1 competitor, IMO. If you're interested in karting, go for it. Wouldn't hesistate to go directly to a shifter, either. Maybe you're the next fast guy. Minimally, there'll be some fun involved. As the racing's good and the visceral thrills a kart offers can't be matched by anything with four wheels and fenders, IMO. Although World Rally looks pretty entertaining. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 471 Registered: 6-2001 |
JON: I SPENT A DAY AT LAGUNA SECA WITH MEMO TWO YEARS AGO BEFORE THE RACE. HE IS A GREAT GUY. CHIP IS CHIP. I THINK THAT HIS CURRENT DRIVERS DID PAY FOR THEIR RIDES, BUT THEY DO HAVE TALENT. DID SPEND SOME TIME WITH J. MONTOYA AT THAT SAME RACE: WHAT AN A**HOLE! OBVIOUSLY AT THAT LEVEL, EVEN THE WORST IS BETTER THAN THE GROUP JUST BELOW HIM. A GOOD WAY TO LOOK AT THIS IS A SERIES OF PRYMAIDS. WHEN YO GET TO THE TOP OF ONE, YOU HAVE TO MOVE TO THE NEXT, AND THE ISSUE OF HOW GOOD YOU ARE STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN. AN EXAMPLE: I WAS A MID PACK RUNNER MOST OF THE TIME IN THE AMA NATIONALS, BUT WHEN I WENT CLUB RACING, I HAD AN EASY TIME OF IT. THE GAME AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL WAS A A RACE OF ALL OF THE LOCAL STARS TO SEE WHO WAS GOOD AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL. WHOLE NEW PECKING ORDER. MUST BE THE SAME AT THE CART AND F1 LEVELS. HAVING SAID THAT JASON, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DO WHAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DOING, IF YOU DECIDE TO DO IT. THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO IS NOTHING, BECAUSE WHEN YOU GET OLD, AND CAN NO LONGER COMPETE, YOU'LL NEVER KNOW IF YOU COULD HAVE. HAVE FUN, AND DO WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO DO. ART | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bill you are correct. Rahal did race Formula Atlantics in the mid 70's. However his big break came in the late 70's with F1 and he was nearing 30 when this occurred. You are correct in that he did not get into racing at age 30 (had been racing amateur SCCA since he was a kid with his father who also raced at the club level). Arthur: I also agree with your statement about the money but they all have varying degrees of world class talent in CART and wouldn't be there with just the money. The guys with just the money are in ALMS and Grand Am. To compete in F1 and CART you have to have money (yours or someone else's) but that will only get you in the door it will not keep you there. Some of the well funded Japanese drivers of the 80's didn't really belong in CART but had the money (Matushista with Panasonic). There are planty of F1 backmarkers that have money, but they also have talent, though not on the level of the front runners like Shumi, Montoya, JV, DC etc... And certainly the backmarkers sometimes look like the are moving in slow motion but they have talent or the wouldn't live long driving Formula cars. ONE EXCEPTION; Alex Yooung, loads of money from the Malaysian gov't but little talent compared to the rest of the field. He is always 4-6 secs of the pace and this is unusual in F1 over the past 10 years. However that being said he could probably spank all of us Challenge racers in a Ford Tarus. There are varying degrees of talent within F1, but even the slower drivers are on another planet compared to even the most seasoned amatuer racers. F1 is more money oriented than CART in terms of using your own money. I venture to guess that both F1 drivers and CART drivers bring large amounts of money to the table, but F1 is a rich playboy's sandbox. In the 80's and early 90's many of the South American and European drivers came from wealthy families with big checkbooks (Pedro Dinitz for example). In the case of CART less so as the money might have been similar but the source was a bit different (Sponsor money, not primarily family owned money). Bottom line is that money will open doors, but only talent will keep you from killing yourself in a 900 horsepower missle at 220 mph. Intetesting story I have told before from Skip Barber's new Karting school. The three regional champions get to test a full blown CART Indy car. Last year they had three young kids about 15-16 years old who had never driven anything but Karts. They tested one of Rahal's 98 or 99 CART cars at Mid-Ohio. The slowest kid was 8 seconds off the pace while one kid was only 4 seconds off the pace of Rahals test driver that day. That is world class talent. Bryan Herta set up a similar deal with some of his Karting youngsters in another of Rahal's cars. Perfect example of talent and no money is Memo Gidley who has world class talent but no money. He has won hundreds of Karting championships and got three podium finishes last year as a sub for Ganassi's CART team. I can't figure out how he didn't get a ride this year. Cheers, Jon | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 408 Registered: 3-2002 |
Art, I think your numbers are a little more on the money. Jason, if you really have the time and money to apply, then there's no reason that, as Jon pointed out, you can't find yourself driving somewhere in the professional ranks of sports cars and the like. Being 25 wouldn't be as bad if you had been participating in competition all along. What isn't going to happen is for someone to "notice" you and put you on the fast track of the CART ladder. However, over time you can gain experience and also make acquaintances. Somewhere this could pay off. With the popularity of sports car racing on the rise, and with cars requiring often 3+ drivers, there's always opportunity out there. Hmmm, maybe I should dust off the ol' Nomex. One of my favorite lines is from Dear Abby (not everybody at once, please) when a woman in her 30's was apprehensive about going to med school because of her age, and that by the time she'd be done, she would be nearing 40. The response was: "How old will you be in 7 years if you DON'T go to med school?" Don't mortgage your future on it, but definitely give racing a go, and enjoy the ride. Keep us posted. BTW, what kind of race car do you have? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 466 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jon: I hate to tell you this, but 90% of the CART drivers get their ride by paying money. The going rate for a CART ride is 4 million. We can thank Fitapaldi and the Brazilians for that circumstance. To a lesser extent, the same holds true for the IRL, but the entry money is less, about 2 - 3 million per year. I've even heard that some of the F1 drivers contribute for their ride. The guy who knows about the specifics of probably each driver is an associate of my David Atlas, who represents a good portion of the drivers (at least the Americans and Japanese drivers). Having said all of that, while it will probably be difficult for Jason, it is not impossible. One last thing: someone mentioned vision. Here is a trick that I used when I was racing: I had my doctor perscribe a set of glasses that gave me 20/10 vision. That put me on a par with the better riders, who to a man, had vision of 20/15 or better. It's amazing what a difference that made for me, I moved up 2, 3 positions just with that better vision. Art | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 284 Registered: 2-2002 |
I think you are wrong about Rahal, Jon. He ran in Formula Atlantic in his twenties, then quit for a while, took a job in an ad agency, then returned to racing. Gerald Donaldson's biography of Gilles Villeneuve lists Rahal as competing in the F Atl race at Edmonton in 1975. That was 27 years ago. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 173 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jason, First off my motto in life is "don't listen to what others tell you can't be done". However, at your age the odds are greatly stacked against you to becoming a professional racer. First off we need to make two distinctions. Driving in a professional series vs. being a professional racer. There are many talented folks racing in Grand Am, ALMS, Trans Am, etc. that have large budget and a passion for racing. They compete in the highest forms of motorsport and are professionals only in the sense that they have the ability and talent and a lot of money to race in a pro series. The other group of racers are of course the folks who get asked to race for teams and are paid a salary. In some cases they need sponsors or other forms of funds but they are not paying out of their pocket and they are getting paid to race. All of the guys CART, F1, and the top runners in Grand Am, FIA Sportscars, and most of the top IRL and ALSM runners fit this bill. The other issue has already been mentioned by others, the more talent you have, the less money you need, but make no mistake about it, you will need money to get into professional racing. the question will then be whether it's your money (usally means you have less talent) or someone else's money (you have boat loads of talent). Again like many other things in life "who you know" also plays a part. Karting is the way to go but keep in mind you wil, be competing against kids half your age and in Karting this makes a difference as weight is a huge factor. Ayrton Senna won his first Kart race ever competing against kids that were two and three years older. He states in his autobiography that he had the same level of talent they did (probably more) but that he also weighed nearly 15 pounds less than the others and that is why he won. This got him noticed and the rest is history. I have competed in the Skip Barber Regional Formula Dodoge Series and they are plucking kids out of karts at the age of 9-13 and putting them into their racing program. Most talented kids they pick to race in Formula Dodge are prior Karting champions from Europe, South American and the US. Most of these kids have won multiple championships before they turn 14 or 15. Then they go to Formula Dodge, Barber Dodge Pro and Formula Atlantic before moving on to CART (like Herta, Tracy, Villeneuve) or F1 (Montoya). If you have not been noticed by the time you are in your mid-teens your chances are getting slimmer. The other thing that has greatly changed is that todays young racers are not just expected to be fast in a car, they are expected to perform out of the car in areas of technical knowledge, marketing, networking, and other aspects of racing. You practically need a physics degree and a marketing degree to succeed (don't forget to brush up on your social skills as well). I certainly don't want to discourage you from trying because anything is possible and you will never know unless you try. Here is some food for thought. Bobby Rahal didn't start his racing career until after age 30, so it can be done. Good Luck! Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 2000 Spec Racer Ford #6 (SCCA National) | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
New member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2002 |
To be frank , 25 is about 10 years too old to begin in professional motorsports. McLaren ( F1 team )has a program thats signs drivers with talent around 14 / 15 years old .They are from the karting ranks. Here in the states the order seems to be karting , Toyota Atlantics, CART/IRL. Agree with the others cash is very important , not only to begin your career but also to travel to venues to press the flesh. Along with that it requires a high level of comfort with all types of people , speaking in front of groups and a professional appearance . My own experience was in motorcycle road racing in the late eighties until 95. I had a bit of a break in that I was well connected with a clothing company that sponsored my program but I can tell you that my club racing that led up to the next level was funded by family well in excess of the amount you are using per month. I think that Memo and Herta have a kart program in Las Vegas called Stars of Tommorow that promote future CART drivers, but most of the contestants are in their teens. My 3 year old has shown a small interest in cars (wonder how that happened)and my wife and I have purchased a Kadet Kart for him to learn to drive on the property.Senna and Schuey began that early. Who knows where this may take him . Also many F1 drivers have said that many hours of racing sims have helped them with track knowledge and improving reflexes. My point being ,a good investment on your part would be to have yourself tested to see how well you see and react. The vision test is not only a 20 -20 thing but a whole range of tests to see how much you respond to, they will tell you what your reaction times are and how they compare to a top level driver. Or you could try for something like NASCAR. I think they have drivers in their fifties .Or it just looks that way with the beer bellies and the gray hair. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 86 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well I did talk to him about Ducati the other day and he gave me an unclear answer. But last fall he told me he was going to ride for them this season. His name is John Dugan. I do not follow motorcycle racing but I know he is good and is always at the top in points. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 463 Registered: 6-2001 |
Robert; Not only did I race against him, but I beat him a couple of times (when he was first roadracing) at a local track called Vacaville. I was on a production Honda 750 (1970) and he was on Irv Kannemoto's HR1. My Honda was highly tuned, and maybe a little illegal for the production class, but boy was it fast. At any rate, we went at it the entire race, and I got him at the end. Still have the Cycle New Picture. Jason: who is your friend riding for Ducati? I used to ride for them in the early 80s. Art | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am 25 and I have about $2000 a month that goes into my racing, so far my car. I won a Portland International Raceway championship when I was 17. That was dragracing though. I undertand that time and money thing because I have watched a friend of mine who races motorcycles go from where I am at now to starting to race for Ducati next year. Well that is where I am now. I might have this dream now because I am too nieve to see the road blocks but this is the only thing that I can see myself doing. This is the only thing I have done that felt natural and not that I was faking it to someone else or myself. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 401 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jason, some things you need to think about are: How old are you? You can race cars for decades, but to launch an attempt at a professional career after a certain age is futile. What, if any, training do you have? While many of us fantasize that we're "naturals", there is no such thing when it comes to racing cars. Do you have a financial plan? Karts are probably the best bang for your buck. But at some point you'll have to step up to cars. While most great racers started out in karts, it is my belief that it had as much to do with the young age at which they began racing as it did the particular vehicle they raced. As far as costs, getting your car to the track is just the beginning. You will spend a lot of time and money on repairs and general upkeep. Right now, the SCCA Pro ranks are peppered with top rate drivers. When I raced Formula cars, I teamed up with a strong CART candidate and a former ELF Formula 3 Scholarship winner. Both are incredible drivers, and kicked my a** regularly, but I watched their careers go nowhere. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but just to let you know what's really out there. You will definitely enjoy competitive racing, whichever level, but just don't let yourself get disappointed if a professional career doesn't materialize. Good luck. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2002 |
Art did you ever compete with Kenny Roberts? I was always impressed by his abilities. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 461 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jason: I've got a 125. I had no prior car racing experience (I did have 20 years of national level motorcycle racing experience), and I found it easy to drive, and became competitve within 10 hours of seat time, with an instructor. I have a Track Magic Kart. I would go to the local races and see who is running what. The top drivers will be using what works there, and I would see what their set is, and generally they will usually tell you, if you ask. The general rule is to start with a 100 and move to the 80 shifter, but it really depends upon your skills and dedication. If you really intend to become a professional racers, I hope you have a lot of available cash. I do represent some riders and drivers, and find that unless you are in the top .0001%, your own money or friends' money is how to get to go racing. I know of only 2 drivers in CART that didn't have money Jeff Ward and Momo Gidley, but in Ward's case he had won a zillon motorcycle championships, and Gidley is a VERY VERY race individual. Almost all of the other racers pay for their rides. That is true in all other venues, except perhaps nascar. Art | ||
| Michael Russell (Michael_russell)
New member Username: Michael_russell Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2002 |
WOW a post I can actually help with!  I just this year started running shifter karts. I am fortunate that in my regeon, everyone is runnign the 80cc shifters, instead of the 125's. I say fortunate because the are much less expensive, to buy and to run, and they aer 95% of the fun of the 125's. I do tend to agree with Michael though, I would do a season in a non-shifter class first. I have done a bit of track dirving including the Skip Barber race series, (the FF cars, not the big cars) as well as many Porsche club events and the like. This past winter I did an indoor karting seriese with the Quebec BMW club, and I was TOTALLY hooked! I could nto believe how much fun 6hp could be! Seriously! Anyway I bought a used shifter to run, and have been learning and loving every minute of it. Make sure you go out to you local track, see what folks are running, see what classes are popular, and talk to the racers, they will be more than will to help, I promise. If you want to go pro, think SKUSA pro-moto. There is a link on the ekartingnews.com site. Have fun, and let me know if you ahve any questions I will try and help out. Michael | ||
| Michael Fennell (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 61 Registered: 7-2001 |
Start at http://www.ekartingnews.com Everyone I have talked to suggests starting with a KT100 (aircooled, very simple) NON-shifter kart. The shifters are brutally fast (power to weight like a viper but geared for 80mph) and difficult to learn to drive well. The KT100 karts are far more popular, at least around here. My local races had 21 drivers in the Sr. Sportsman KT100 class last Sunday and maybe 8 running 125 shifters. More drivers = more competition = more learning. Have fun. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 84 Registered: 9-2001 |
I need some advice guys. I am in the middle of building a race car and I have sunk all of my money for the last 6 months into it. My dream is to become a professional driver, the problem is I don't know how to get the exposure that I will surely need. I figured I would get my car done and race it this summer in track days and then next summer get into SCCA for points. The problem is I really don't want to wreck my car now that I have so much time and money in it. I then read a post on here about the terrible 360 Challenge accident and someone mentioned Shifter Carts. I looked them up and they are realitively inexpensive and I have heard good things about these cars as far as exposure. Would this be a wise move? Do you have any advice on Shifter Carts as far as brand and so on? Thanks for your time. |