| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Junior Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2002 |
Toooooo serious guys, relax a little! | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 220 Registered: 11-2001 |
Bruce, I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with Chris Hill. I have always been very happy with his work and professionalism. When we've had problems with work, he has always fixed them for me. PPIs are very difficult. Chris didn't find everything with my 275. It just is not possible to find everything without a major teardown, and that is usually not what we sign up for. I always hope to shake out the major items, and expect with any used car that there are going to be items that don't meet my personal level of acceptance. And Martin, I guess the saying goes if you can't beat them, join them. My wife and I actually travel to England on a regular basis. She is studying at Cambridge this summer. If anything we are probably Anglophiles, but I was trying to make a point the hard way. Let's face it, Ferrari owners are a passionate lot. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 413 Registered: 4-2002 |
martin lol  thab=nks for the nice words about the car, i used chris hill for a ppi and was NOT very happy..he missed aloot of things on it, and down the line was financially a set back. i know you fly him here for your ppi of your car.. have a good day stephen.. martin..keep your sense of humor.. bruce | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2283 Registered: 5-2001 |
So Stephen, if you made a stupid comment about somebody else being Britisch, that is not so bad then, or no loss if he would leave. | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 219 Registered: 11-2001 |
Bruce, That's all I'm trying to say. If you were to leave FC because someone made a stupid comment about your being Jewish it would be a loss for this board. BTW I love your yellow TR. Only got to see it once here in KC, but damn it was bella! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2280 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am Jewmacian! I guess I would have it tough at the Country Club  | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 412 Registered: 4-2002 |
steve i agree with you about a individual getting crap about a religious figure on his plate..thats his business and if wants to proudly show it, so be done. my feelings that debates and arguements are ok as they "dont get out of hand and hurt people" im jewish and i know about anti semitism all around but will never judge a book by its cover and never hold a hard on against a person unless they hurt me or my family.. my arguement still stands..let people talk and express their views... | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2001 |
Bruce, How can you possibly say this thread was uncalled for when, by my count, at least half those posting think something does need to be done about this problem. Now, is it really the "death" of FC? Of course not, I only used that to get your attention. But I think you are dead wrong if you think this issue need not be addressed. I would rather have Rob thinking about this now than have the problem get any worse. Like it or not, people have been driven away from this site for stupid, selfish reasons. How is this problem any different than a golf club not allowing blacks or jews to join? I remember here in KC when Tom Watson resigned from the KC Country Club because they would not allow Henry Block (H&R Block Tax Folks) to join. If we have a new member and drive him away because of some very stupid comments, then how is the greater good of this site served? I don't mind having an area to discuss everything under the sun. But I am not comfortable being a member of this board if an individual can be attacked for his personal beliefs simply by posting a photo of his car. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 411 Registered: 4-2002 |
thought that phrase was used when we didnt even have pubic hair | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 460 Registered: 10-2001 |
Dave said "Titties" heh heh heh heh heh | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 408 Registered: 4-2002 |
clashing is good, if done with taste, and doesnt hurt anyone, this thread"the death of f-chat" is uncalled for.... my 2 cents | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
Junior Member Username: Rmv Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2002 |
Oh well, I believe this thread has served its purpose: it has got members thinking and expressing their views/opinions. Perhaps censorship is too extreme a next step to take. Things may not be quite as bad as I originally thought. One will find wherever there are personalities interacting, there will be the occasional personality clash. Fact of life I suppose. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2268 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rob, this threat has to be moved. This is entirely non-Ferrari related! Or have it deleted. This threat should be censored. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Junior Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2002 |
I personally couldn't give a monkeys, read what you want ignore what you want, and dont be so damned easily upset. You aren't forced into being here or reading anything whilst you are here. Its often a readers insecurity and human nature that makes them not resist opening a thread, if you do this and don't like what you read, to coin an old english phrase, tough titties. The vast majority of stuff is still a great read. Most of whats not a great read is often very amusing. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2888 Registered: 2-2001 |
Also in my opinion you have three choices in controlling this problem. "You have to fish or cut bait." Eliminate these threads entirely, give them another place to vent, or leave them where they are and live with it." JMO | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2887 Registered: 2-2001 |
I really think most of these bastard threads are given attention because they are thrown amongst the rest of the threads. Members pick them up and get involved. It seems to be human nature. I think they should be deleted, but if you don't want to delete them move these threads to another location where one has to leave the Ferrari Chat threads and go into the bastard threads to post. This way in my opinion these threads will be greatly ignored and these hecklers will get tired of posting. Also they will not be in the main stream of the Ferrari Chat discussions. JMO | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
Junior Member Username: 328infoseeker Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2001 |
Alright, I skimmed this topic due to the lead post. Why don't you have two sections,the most flamable topics RELIGION AND POLITICS. If a tread goes off in that direction say 10 posts transfer the thread to that area to coninue until they are finished. Multiple comments/complaints to Rob about this type of thread will allow Rob not to monitor but react a couple times a quarter. This should not bother the participants and gives them the right to vent. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 458 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm guilty of contributing to some off topic threads (although I never started one) and I thought some were fun. Some were boring. Some Ferrari threads are pretty boring to me too; but not to everyone. I was amazed at how civilized some of the off topics were and that's a tribute to the people here who can talk about sensitive subjects as adults. Without picking old wounds (floor mats; 1st edition *S*), I remeber some of the worst flames starting on Ferrari subjects! It IS a Ferrari site so it seems right that most threads should be Ferrari related. And most are. The technical section should be sacred: no one should post what's not somehow related to Ferraris and how they work. In the General section, I'm with the crowd. If it's boring then skip it; doesn't matter if it's Ferrari related or not. It would be bad to start censoring stuff. | ||
| John Bicsak (Funshipone)
Junior Member Username: Funshipone Post Number: 77 Registered: 1-2002 |
I like this site and enjoy reading what pertains to what I am interested in, and what I am not interested in I don't read. I am realy happy I bought a Ferrari, and glad my salesman from Jack Cauley told me of this site. | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 125 Registered: 5-2002 |
I believe in freedom of speech, but after that thread we are all refering to, I found it to be an embarassment to the site.. My opinion ofcourse. I know that most topics end up taking a turn, but when i saw where that was going, I made a decision to remove myself from it ..There are many more topics that I can learn from and go there instead. We are here with a common interest and that is FERRARIES.. That doesn't mean we should only talk Ferrrari, but we should be sensitive to others and express some form of respect to one another.. I will not stop visiting this site, and will still refer it to friends. Maybe an Off Topic section is a great idea with an enter at own risk in red..You go in, it's on you...... | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2263 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey Frank, are you stirring up trouble again? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2262 Registered: 5-2001 |
<in> "I WAZ ONE OF ZE HIJACKERS OF ZE JUST GOT MY CAMERA THEAT" Steve, I see your point 200%. Those who do not wish to participate in these heated debates, that are sometimes personal and can sometimes offend, would rather see these reduced or banned altogether, because they have nothing to do with our common love for Ferrari. I find though that while these "battles" are going on you can have a great discussion on another threat with the same person you are fighting on another non-Ferrari subject. So you disagree on something, big deal. Not everybody can like TUBI. On some of the really stupid posts, well, that refelcts to the poster more than the reader. I think the good people, and most of them here are, are all above some really personal attacks. I would say we are mature enough. The only change I would like to see here is a spil chik vor may bat riting scilz. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 972 Registered: 9-2001 |
I'll vote for adding an "Off Topic" section as well. While I admit to helping fuel the fire at times to some WAY off topic subjects, I do not see the big deal for the adults on the board. It seems that only insecure children would get so hot and bothered about such enlightened discussions on religion, philosophy, God and such. Lighten up guys, lifes to short to sweat the little stuff. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 503 Registered: 7-2001 |
I like the 'Off Topic' idea. That way anybody that wants to know if you've seen Star Wars can't interrupt our Ferrari discussions. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 163 Registered: 2-2001 |
My vote is keep up the good work. Site seems to moderate itself fairly well, I think. And am with those who say it's pretty easy to motor past any post/thread that isn't of interest. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1750 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think a code of ethics might be good, not strongly enforced, but maybe a place for new users to learn a little about the culture and then we can always refer back to it mid stride as reminders. See another thread in a few days for the initial code and then provide your feedback. | ||
| Nunja Bitness (Jaxfl)
Junior Member Username: Jaxfl Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2001 |
"The problem I see with your TV analogy (ie just don't watch that show) is that the Trolls attack some of our members. I don't know many TV shows that attack, in a personal way, someones beliefs." Stephen, I was one of the people who had his beliefs (or lack of) attacked in another thread. I didn't mind the exchange at all. Hopefully the heated exchanges will be contained to just a few wacky threads which can be easily ignored by anybody seeking different content. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 467 Registered: 6-2001 |
Steve: I thnk that Rob has the right idea. Leave well enough alone. If there are threads that you don't want to read, your choice. I like the technical, I like the personal issues that someones come up on the site, and I think that most of the folks who have been here a while, feel the same way. Those threads where people lose it are quickly brought back into control, with little or no harm done. You are right Rob has created something special, but it is special because it is what it is, and it would not be as special with any further rules, etc. Just my thoughts on this issue. I do notice that neither Martin nor Magoo have checked in with their ideas on this issue. Art | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 209 Registered: 11-2001 |
The problem I see with your TV analogy (ie just don't watch that show) is that the Trolls attack some of our members. I don't know many TV shows that attack, in a personal way, someones beliefs. I don't want to see this site die, or even change much. I like the idea of a Nuclear deterent. If someone is constantly upsetting the apple cart, they run the risk of Rob (or whoever) banning them from the site. Now, I'm all for free speech. And I'm not suggesting that we need censorship. But wouldn't a code of ethics be helpful? Do we really want to drive anyone away by not giving some level of protection from personal attacks? BTW I only called this thread "The death of FerrariChat" because I want to win Rob's contest | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well said David Harris. In the religion thread, did it really get all that bad as far as mud slinging and hate goes? I thought it was mostly a reasonably civil discussion with some humor and some emotion thrown in but overall pretty tame. Certainly no biggie as bullitin board discussions go. Rob: This is one of the best chat boards I have participated in. Please dont change it. Having some broad discussions tossed in just adds flavor. Those with no taste for the spicy can simply choose not to read a thread. I think the analogy to people wanting to ban TV channels they find obscene or undesirably is very valid. Good goodness sake, if you dont like a thread just ignore it! The funny thing is, ignoring it can be tough in reality. Its like Howard Stern syndrome. 44% of listeners said they liked him and they listen an average of 1.5 hours per day. 56% of listeners say they hate him and listen an average of 2.5 hours per day. Both groups state the same reason for listening: "We want to see what he will say next". Gluttons for punishment! | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 457 Registered: 5-2001 |
As probably the oldest (68y) fart on the chat I'll add my 2 cents. Yes, there have been a few juvenile and intentionally inflammatory postings,however they represent a very small percent of the topics.I personally have benefited greatly from members who are much better informed technically than I. I believe Stephen's posting serves a useful purpose--appealing to the membership not to sabotage what is so useful to many.However,I do not agree with his premise that this is the end of Fchat and do not believe censorship is the answer.The answer is a little self-discipline by all of us.End of pontification!.Ooops-not in a "religious vein" | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1744 Registered: 12-2000 |
OOooo, I forgot about the gore picks, those were bad. I guess the little red dots and I think that thread were the only thing I've done. I'm kinda proud I haven't had to do more. I've seen major problems when moderators get on a power trip. I've decided not to do anything for now, but if the next few months are as bad as the last few weeks, then I'll be doing something. I'm open to ideas, but I'm likely to keep things unchanged. I don't mind getting a bunch of recipes, but too many cooks is a problem. I know most of the users on this board are cooks though. | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
New member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2002 |
Being new to Ferrari and Ferrarichat, I just sponge what info I need and contribute where ever I feel I can help. I have found the site extremely helpful in my first week yet I can see where alot of subjects get really carried away...especially when you don't have alot of time to read through the fluff. Maybe just take some stuff off line via email or phone calls? Anyway...I look forward to meeting the people who are in my area (NJ) and if you are traveling in my area I welcome you to call me so we can BS a bit over a beer. | ||
| bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm with Sloan83. If I approve or disapprove of something is strictly my opinion and I can always change the channnel but censorship is unthinkable. If something offends me I simply remeber I only sign on to talk cars and LET IT GO ! | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 362 Registered: 3-2001 |
I have 300 choices on my Cable TV, there are several channels I don't like, guess what I do? I don't watch the ones I don't like. If you don't like a thread ignore it...so simple. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 356 Registered: 12-2001 |
Take a look at some of the threads tha have generated this "problem" (I frankly don't see the need for censorship, but whatever). They were started by people with earnest points or questions: eg what kind of wax should i use; here's a picture of my car. How does relegating these to an off topic section solve the problem? And, if moderated, doesn't that force somebody, Rob or otherwise, to monitor and decide when a thread goes off track? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Junior Member Username: Newman Post Number: 241 Registered: 12-2001 |
Just a question regarding the anything goes section. What stops a person who wants to stir the pot from posting things in the tech or general sections? If they want to stir things up, why post in an area where people will ignore it? I know I wouldnt if that was my goal. Wouldnt that bring rob back to having to read all the posts anyway to weed them out or put them where they belong? | ||
| Steve Hanis (Steve_hanis)
New member Username: Steve_hanis Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2002 |
Changing the board software to UBB or PHP (or one of their derivations) may also help. They are very easy to manage and moderate with several nice features. An example of the UBB style can be found here: http://www.hoodscoop.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi and PHP (open source Freeware ) here: http://www.ls1.com/forums/index.php | ||
| Steve Hanis (Steve_hanis)
New member Username: Steve_hanis Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2002 |
>I welcome your comments and suggestions. And I >hope Rob is listening as well. He has created >something very special. I would hate to see this >site go down like a shopping center in a "bad" >part of town. Many boards have an 'open' or 'anything goes' section. The purpose is to keep the off topic, chit-chat, trash talking post separate from the original purpose of the board. This serves two purposes: 1) Allows for the people who want to discuss the passion of Ferrari and help each other with Ferrari related questions to do so without sifting through the riff-raff. At the same time, members who enjoy stirring the pot or posting about their new pet dog will also have a place to do so. 2) Makes life easier for admins and moderators. Instead of being faced with banning members and or deleting/editing post, they can simply transfer an out of control thread to 'open topic/anything goes.' | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2001 |
If the flames, religious posts and NFC stuff that some find distracting or offensive were simply confined to a few "bad apples", they would not achieve the attention and prominence they do. It seems like alot of us participate in these things, whether to vent, intervene or just enjoy the ride. So what S Patterson may be calling for is a bit more maturity from all of us; i am not adverse to paying for the privilege here, either, but i don't think the real problem is "riff raff" that can't afford a $20 posting fee. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 511 Registered: 2-2001 |
Rob, I think the sight is great. Yes sometimes some of the threads get a little petty but I really believe it is just human nature and you can't avoid it. One thing about deleting threads. Didn't you delete the one where someone posted some really gross pictures of a wrecked Ferrari? It was there on day and gone the next. Personally I was sorry I clicked on it. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1743 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think a page somewhere for "When Ferrari threads go wrong" to put all those threads would be good. I don't think charging a subscription would help anything, that would only give users a self perception of more power and freedom. It's funny, but most of us are guilty of hijacking a thread or loosing our cool now and then. Some maybe more than others, but it just depends on the conditions in this one dimensional world and then we have a "Ferrari thread gone wrong". One idea I have is a special topic that you have to submit a special request or be a long time "in good standing" user to gain access. At least to post and maybe even to view. But that's also the kind of elitism and separation that some car clubs struggle with. | ||
| Emilio Frattaruolo (Paintballny)
New member Username: Paintballny Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2002 |
I understand your concern. I myself do not participate as much as I would like to in some threads but this forum is one of my favorites. For the most part your members are very curtious, mature, and so on. This is most likely because a ferrari owner is different from any other car owner I know of. They understand the simple yet menacing beauty that is Ferrari. Between the sounds and the looks I was obsessed with Ferrari's cars ever since I was a little boy(i'm only 18 now). I hope one day to start off small with maybe a 308 or 348 if I am lucky. For now I will just read the things that put a smile to my face. Please for everyone's sake lets keep the discussions on topic and the trolls out of here. Just ingnore moronic statements it keeps you from looking like the idiot that posted it and from the forum turning into a flame war. cya Emilio | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 266 Registered: 10-2001 |
What we are realy seeing here is two schools of thought. Should this be a more serious site for the die-hard hobbiest or should this be a broader site for the greater public. If you want to be a smaller privte club... a monthly fee would keep out the causal user. Or a half-step is to add an "Off Topic" section. Third possablity is to leave the site alone. Leaving it broadly popular and making the experts grummpy at the expenses of the novice. It would be cool to take a poll and see how everyone votes. I like it the way it is. | ||
| David Harris (Dakharris)
Junior Member Username: Dakharris Post Number: 137 Registered: 6-2001 |
Let's really make the sparks fly! All you wimpy liberal commies who want Rob to be your Daddy and protect you from the posts you don't want to read can go to Cuba, where they don't have any Ferraris. I'm an American. We are still allowed the freedom to speak and think independently. There are no children who need to be protected on this site, so we don't need any censors. There are many (we call them the Thought Police) who want to limit our Constitutional rights, but I will fight them anywhere...including FerrariChat. I have always ignored the types of posts questioned on this thread, as any lover of freedom would do. But I couldn't ignore this one as I draw the line at censorship. Patrick Henry remains a hero of mine. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 424 Registered: 2-2001 |
Me too. Ernesto | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1121 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think everyone is over reacting. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 404 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hey Stephen, I seem to recall when I looked at your bio that you were recently trading in the 355. Is that right? Did you get the 550? I'm going on memory here, which is always an adventure! Don't know if I missed your feedback elsewhere, but I was just curious how you liked it. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2001 |
Rob, I think both viewpoints (FC death or just different) are valid - although I have to admit I rarely read the posts here on GFD vs Technical due to the flame wars. The Supra/religion/anti-Ferrari people seem to stay out of the Technical board, so it still has the "feel" that all of FerrariChat had when I first started lurking in late 2000. Moderating the posts is an onerous concept - the internet is one of the last examples of true free speech, HOWEVER about 25% of the threads drift off what I consider the value of the board - Ferrari discussion. Rob, as much as you don't want to do it, I'm afraid some kind of control is going to be necessary. Remember the discussion you started several months ago on how to keep FerrariChat economically viable? The general concensus at the time seemed to be that keeping the site free with additional advertisers was the best way to go - I expressed concern that the Technical Board would suffer if professional mechanics like Brian Stewart had to pay for the privilege of sharing their expertise. In the meantime, the GFD board has been beseiged by trolls with no other purpose but taunting and flaming - and all they have to do is sign up with a user name, password, and a free e-mail address. I think the time has come for a dramatic change for FerrariChat - free viewing, but a $20 annual fee for posting priviliges. Fortunately, control comes in many forms, and most of the trolls here wouldn't bother posting flames if they had to pay for it. This would allow the forums to "self-moderate" without the need for you (or anyone) to physically read and evaluate every post. As for the input of the professionals to the Technical or other boards, I propose a "scholarship" program. Individuals, whether technical masters, those young future Ferrari owners who have delivered quality posts in the past, or anyone else at your discretion, could be issued a free membership so that the full "Ferrari experience" can still be shared by owners and enthusiasts as it used to be. Sorry for the length of this post, but this site is important to me on many levels - and I want it to thrive for many years to come. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 265 Registered: 10-2001 |
Stephen- I just went and looked at your profile. I see you are a engineer..or at least own a electronics Mfg company. I could have guessed. All my friends are Electrical engineers. I must enjoy the abuse. I hope you don't take my post the wrong way. I enjoy sourounding myself with smart fun people. Even if I make a engineer joke or two. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 264 Registered: 10-2001 |
Stephen you seem to be hyper sensitive I don't mean that in a bad way. I like to know all kinds of people. You should be proud of your Mature, Pure, attitude. And I really mean that. The NSX fourm has a guy that calls himself the "NSX Nazi" some people take offense but he is very smart and knows everything... so most on the borad find him helpful. Plus it is just a take-off on the Jerry Sinfeld joke about Soup Nazi. My point is... people come here for entertainment, learning, and techy stuff. Everyone has differnt needs. Your needs are not the only one's. A post like "Fchat is dead" seems a bit over dramatic? My best friend is a engineer and he has no sence of hummor, so I can understand where you come from. My buddy is dead serious about everything. And I work with engineers as my business...thus seeing a lot of wonderfully smart people, although some tend to have some social handicaps when it comes to people skills. But no problem...too much brains and less personality, eveyone is unique. That's whats cool. I come here for fun. I am an idea person, a creative person, and a funny person. I leave the tech stuff to my engineer friends. We are opposites. The only thing this world needs is more rules? I disagree. Adults know how to ignore a few kids that prank around with a post like "supra's are great". There just kids...ignore them. I realy get pissed off when people can't just skip post that look silly. PLEASE, if you don't like whats on... change the channel. Don't cry for sensorship, someone else may be enjoying that show. and lastly. I am for kicking people off the board if they constantly start flame wars. I saw a guy get kicked off NSXprime and it was Sweet! Guy was too intense and started fights about every little pioint. Now his email and all his new attempts to come back are blocked. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 238 Registered: 7-2001 |
Rob, I have a suggestion. Why don't you set up another discussion area called "Off Topic" or "Anything Goes" Then, people can post their off topic thoughts, and the "Ferrari only" users can access the area only if they want to. If a legimate thread gets hijacked, you can simply move it to this "anything goes" area. It seems to work on other car forums I visit. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Junior Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 113 Registered: 10-2001 |
I agree with Ernesto . Self moderating is pretty easy . Otherwise there's still the owners.ferrari forum if you really cant bare any longer F chat | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 554 Registered: 6-2001 |
You know, I agree with Stephen. BUT we cannot let a few bad apples ruin Ferrarichat. I have used this site religiously for over a year, and I can still post a question and get a dozen great answers here....despite those few morons who try to antagonize us and "tease" us. Who teases a guy or gal with a Ferrari??? A jealous little jerk. With that said, who gives a crap if some Supra owner comes over here and teases us about owning a Ferrari? Not me. Mr Supra Owner wishes he was me. To the rest of the great people on this site, FOOOOORRRRZAAA FEEERRAARRII!!! I still love this site. | ||
| Mitchell Minh Le (Yelcab1)
Junior Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2001 |
I have been members of Porsche chat and BMW Chat. I have seen similar issues on both chats. What I found that worked on the Porsche chat is a "slight" amount of moderation where: 1. Off-topics are allowed but moved to a different place. This happens about once a month. 2. Offenders are banned forever from the site. This rarely happens but works like a Nuclear deterent What I like about FC is that there is one page in the site that is dedicated to Technical Q&A and that is where I spend 90% of my time here. The "Technical" word is self-regulating enough to not have non-technical postings. IMHO, there is not enough time during the day for Rob Lay to police the site, and there are not that many blatant offenders to ban from the site anyway. If the problems truly gets out of hand, Rob can (and has the right to) ban certain persons from his site. Please keep the tech information site alive. It is truly doing a service to those of us who drive these beautiful machines but need some hand holding from the experts when working on them Ferraris. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1742 Registered: 12-2000 |
You weren't a user back then, but we had a 9-11 post that was probably worse than this one. It went on and on, but finally after a month it died and everything has been mostly cool since then. I think it just goes in cycles. Would a majority of users really want "Ferrari Only" rules? I'm afraid I'll have a management nightmare when those posters get mad and keep posting the same message and I keep having to delete them. Then I'll have to get into IP blocking, which is a nightmare within itself. That's really not what I want FC to become. I don't agree that the tone of the NFC messages have spread over into the others. There are still great message threads going right now in Technical Q&A and about Ferrari events and etc. That NFC post only had about 2-3 users that were really out of line and took it to a level that was inappropriate. I also don't want to make overall painful changes for 2-3 users, if 1,400 don't fill that way. If over 750 users want heavier moderation, then I will always do what's best for the overall board. Others please speak... | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2001 |
Rob, I have to tell you that I think you are wrong about a hands off approach to FerrariChat. I truly believe that very soon you will not be able to find the good for all the garbage. You can wish all you want to have people return to a more civil time and attitude on this board, but I fear that time has passed. What we need is moderation that keeps from happening what happened with JScott. Yes, I posted to it with a comment like "this is better than TV". I also occasionally stop channel surfing when I come across Howard Stern. Doesn't mean I want to watch it all the time though... Rob, now is the time for you to figure out where FC goes from here. I hope it is not a continuation of the slide we have been on. | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2001 |
When the negative comments outpace the good, who has time to muddle through all the garbage. J Scott, your thread, through no fault of your own, quickly turned into an embarassment for this site. Now, I don't really care what anyone believes in. But when we start attacking one another and defending positions on who is right we create a "hostile work environment" that any lawyer would be all over. I know we can just ignore the bullies, but why should we? Isn't this FERRARIChat? It is starting to feel like OPEN SEASON ON EVERY TOPIC UNDER THE SUN CHAT. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1739 Registered: 12-2000 |
Why is FerrariChat.com going downhill because of 1 or 2 NFC's per 100 posts? I don't like them and wish users wouldn't post them, but I think you would like FC less if I ruled with an iron hand. In over 50,000 posts, I've never deleted one, the most management I do at all is edit out bad words, send people personal e-mails, and post to these threads. Go visit some other boards and you'll find that FC is really one of the most positive environments you'll find. Even I did a few NFC posts to the religion post and so did you Stephen! Like I told the old timers on the board that didn't like their 5 person message board growing to over 1,400 and there were actually some of these users that owned more expensive cars than a 308. Geez. Who really has time to read every single thread. I sure don't. Pick the threads you want and ignore the rest. Stop the bitchin! | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2001 |
It's easy. If a thread has over 100 posts it is probably a big mess of non Ferrari realated bickering. Just skip those. They take too long to load anyway. | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Junior Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 113 Registered: 1-2002 |
You are overreacting! Read and post what and where you want, ignore the rest. | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2001 |
The problem with self regulation, instead of having moderators, is that these destructive comments are not just showing up in stand alone threads like "All Ferrari Owners Must Die", but in the everyday threads that we have all enjoyed. Two things I have learned about us Ferrari folks: 1. We are passionate about our love of Ferrari 2. We are usually very busy people and don't waste alot of time. I feel that our current system is broken, and that the last two weeks worth of fighting will only invite more of the type of "car bomb" posts that we have been getting. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 275 Registered: 2-2002 |
Stephen has a valid argument. This site has gone downhill in a big way in the last couple of weeks. People don't seem to want to talk about Ferraris anymore. I've ignored the stupid posts but, since there aren't any good, provocative posts alongside them, we run the risk of getting bored and moving on. Rob's making an effort by instituting his "Best Thread' contest. I hope it works. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 510 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think it is fine. It has just gotten bigger and with more people posting you are going to get that kind of stuff. I just don't get people getting upset about certain threads. If you aren't interested in it just don't click it. If you see something that interests you then give it a click. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 423 Registered: 2-2001 |
Just ignore the posts that dont interest you. Self-moderator... Ernesto | ||
| RM Valher (Rmv)
New member Username: Rmv Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2002 |
I agree, moderating is the key. That religious thread was a little over the top in my humble opinion. I am a non-owning Ferrari and car fanatic and I enjoy reading about the experiences of owners (whose rank I hope to join in the future once I graduate from university), but I don't feel so comfortable about posting here anymore because of the negativity. I know I cannot contribute on the technical side of things, but where appropriate I post a comment because I am a Ferrari lover. Can't we just enjoy talking about the cars we love and/or own? | ||
| Michael Yip (Mightyslash)
Junior Member Username: Mightyslash Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think we need some moderators here. | ||
| NGSVDO (Azspider)
Junior Member Username: Azspider Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2001 |
I agree. I beleive in free speech and voicing your opinion, but I also got away from the BS on the.rec ferrari group for that reason and have not looked at it since. This has been a good informational site and I hope it continues. | ||
| Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member Username: Srpatterson Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ladies and Gentlemen, It is with much regret that I forsee the end of the FerrariChat that we have known and loved. What seems to have replaced it lately is something more akin to an episode of the "Jerry Springer" show. The only difference is that there are no big guys in black t-shirts to keep the participants from ripping into one another. Just look at the latest round of disfunctional threads and you quickly see a patern developing that has very little to do with the exchange of Ferrari information or the sharing of a common love of the brand. I do not believe that FerrariChat will survive under the current system of non-regulation. Oh, this site will probably still be here, but the good members (those with the most information to share) will be gone. In the wake of endless posts about religion and Supras, the Tifosi will drift away. I welcome your comments and suggestions. And I hope Rob is listening as well. He has created something very special. I would hate to see this site go down like a shopping center in a "bad" part of town. |