| Author | Message | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2001 |
A friend of the family is getting his 996 Turbo with all the bells and whistles. Porsche Germany turned in his car to a tuner (not sure which one) which added 100bhp to it! So it now has 520Bhp as well as 700Nm (I'm not sure what it is in lb/ft). All this under the factory guarantee. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 117 Registered: 2-2001 |
In Dec. Porsche added an option to the AWD 996TT that bumps the HP an extra 40. Price is $16k, bringing a base car with that option only to @$132k. They send the motor to some specialists to be worked on. Kind of like the BMW M series. My father tried as a last ditch effort to get his dealer to change his build to this option but no go. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1718 Registered: 2-2001 |
As per Car & Driver it's the same engine with higher boost (I'm not sure if they have to change other engine components to compensate for increased boost, but the block, pistons, etc are the same). The aerodynamics, chassis, etc all have to be quite similar. I don't doubt that it drives a lot different, a 996TT with awd can't be anywhere as cool as the GT2. It's a great car, I just think for the money they could do more with it. Excluding guys like us, most would never be able to tell it from the more common Porsches. I've seen two of them while with my friends and not one of the guys took a second look cause they don't know any better, me of course was running for a better look and listening to the exhaust. Even though I don't like Porsche that much doesn't mean that I don't respect them. | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2001 |
Bret, your statements are not correct, the GT2 is completely different from the 996TT, actually it is really a GT3 with a modified TT engine and racing GT3 RS tranny.I own one since June and it feels and drives completely differently. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2001 |
Brett, I cannot believe the premium being charged for the GT2 over the regular 996 twinner. Even the difference in MSRP is insane. I heard guys are getting 50 grand on EBAY for their waiting list spot for the GT2. It is definatly Porsche taking advantage of the yuppy/soccer mom crowd. If you really wanted to go racing, you could probably get a regular turbo, convert it to rear wheel drive, rip out the rear seats, do some major engine mods to get you 600 hp and still have enough change left over to buy yourself a Z06. That being said, there is no doubting the performance of the GT2. It is going to be very fast on the street and even faster on the track. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1709 Registered: 2-2001 |
$140K not $140, although that would be nice. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1708 Registered: 2-2001 |
The GT2 has an asinine price IMO too Tenney. I really don't see how they same basic car (engine is the same, just more boost, not sure about chassis, but it's got to be very similar, has 2wd instead of 4wd so it's not like there is added technology) is worth like $75K more. List on the 360 is $140 base, around there at least. Theoretically if you were to pick up a stripped down 360 with no options, you could twin turbo it or something along those lines for the price of the GT2, and beat the GT2. Wow, I never thought I'd say you could buy a Ferrari and make it faster than something more expensive, I thought that phrase was to be reserved for Corvettes. I'd still take the stock 360 over the GT2, of course my opinion is highly biased though. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 82 Registered: 2-2001 |
Realizing that (drivers being equal) the GT2 is the stronger car, unless every day was a track day I'd still prefer a 360 (coupe) or 550. Additionally, Porsche has priced the GT2 at too high a premium over the 996TT, IMO. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 93 Registered: 7-2001 |
well if the last F50 was made in 1998, then its not fair to list one as being available at a dealership. Therefore, Ernie, which car would you choose from the respective dealerships?? A new 996 GT2 or a new Ferrari??? Considering you guys always seem to talk about racing and performance, you must consider the GT2 as it would beat all the current F cars currently sold at dealerships. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1587 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think the last F50 rolled off the line in '97 or '98 | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 92 Registered: 7-2001 |
Ernie, Are they still making the F50?? Or are you talking about a used car at the dealership?? James | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Junior Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 160 Registered: 8-2001 |
Right now, the GT2 is the best car at the Porsche dealer- soon to be the Carrera GT... Its all opinions- F50 vs. GT | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 145 Registered: 11-2001 |
If you could only get ONE, which would you pick? Lets say the best car at each dealership. 996 Twin Turbo or F50? I'll have the Ferrari thank you very much. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 287 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tks for the information | ||
| nick m........ (Nickm)
New member Username: Nickm Post Number: 46 Registered: 8-2001 |
No Doubt. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 412 Registered: 6-2001 |
Probably 550 of the 600 changes are things like that | ||
| nick m........ (Nickm)
New member Username: Nickm Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2001 |
I'll betcha 400 of those 600 differences between the US cars and Euros are little nothings, like a nut, a bolt, a washer, a gasket, a turnsignal, a light bulb, a wire, etc... etc.. etc... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 407 Registered: 6-2001 |
Kenny, you drive so much faster than me yet i have managed to get 3 speeding tickets, luckily one was in CT so i dont get points, the other was a 55 in a 45 which i shouldnt have gotten ticketed for in the first place and the court never supplied me with a supporting deposition (5 months ago) so my dad is confident he can get it dismissed, and the other happened last week, so i still havent decided how im gonna get out of it, but i love the american justice system with all its loopholes. One day i have to teach you how to use the e-brake and control liftoff oversteer in fwd cars. Carl, dont rub it in that we dont get some of the cars u guys get. Im not sure of the differences between euro and usa cars but FNA claims there are something like 600 differences between euro and usa 360's. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Junior Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 157 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ken, An amazing Porsche site/forum- http://www.flat-6.net I treat my Volvo like I would treat the 333sp- like a race car  . Considering it is safe (to speed), the speed limit is not an issue. | ||
| Todd Chen (Tec)
New member Username: Tec Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2002 |
Vilamoura, check out: http://www.funcarsonline.com This has the best 996 and Turbo boards. and http://forums.rennlist.com Also, there's http://www.986board.com/board/986board.htm but it's primarily boxster content. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 285 Registered: 9-2001 |
Which Porsche forum would you recommend? | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hey Kenny: My complaint was about Volvo drivers who drive too slow, so you're the rare breed who drives it as it was intended. I see too many Volvo drivers who are oblivious to those around them. Like doing 25 in a 40 zone. Usually on a cell phone. Or those who pass you and slow down (when I'm in my Honda that is). If it's not an SUV doing that stuff, it's a Volvo. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Junior Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 154 Registered: 8-2001 |
In response to: "I say Volvo owners are the worst, especially the female ones. I swear they can't drive. Even my wife makes comments about them. (With apologies to the female Volvo owners who CAN drive!)" HEY!!! I drive a Volvo S40 1.9t and this turbo could take almost any ferrari*. I am a great driver- no accidents, no speeding tickets- nothing of the sort. *in safety | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
New member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2001 |
From what I understand we will be getting the elise in a year or so. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tim, I have also noticed that US. 360s have what looks like an extra indicator infront of the front wheels. What other differences are there between US issue F355s and 360s compared with their European counterparts. I do pity you guys for missing out on such an excellent roadster as the elise. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 282 Registered: 9-2001 |
Tks Mr. Doody (Doody) for your kind information. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 402 Registered: 6-2001 |
Those bumpers are to meet stupid US crash standards. Those standards keep us from getting the lotus elise, 959, and others. You will see simialr things on a countach, and a mclaren f1 (i think)if u are lucky enough. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 88 Registered: 7-2001 |
Todd, I think you have made an excellent point. The marketing department at Porsche must have hired some Stanford MBA's because they are doing an amazing job of switching the soccer moms and yuppie poseurs from buying Audis,Beemers and Benzs to 996's and boxsters. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2001 |
Overall Porsches do tend to be less "tempremental" than Ferraris. Especially during winter here in Sweden where I live. During this very harsh winter I saw several 996 Turbos being driven in downtown Stockholm. The other major advantage is the lower amount of maintenance required. This is probably the reason why my dad chose his 993 Carrera 4S over the 348 that I suggested. After having driven it I was really amazed at how much grip it had and the way you could really get all its power down early in the curve. But still I can't help feeling that there is less "soul" in a Porsche than the Ferraris I have been fortunate to encounter. Ps. What is up with these small black plastic "boxes" on the bumper of all US. 996 models? We sure don't need them in Europe, why should you guys suffer? Ds. | ||
| Warren Dodge (Spiderman)
New member Username: Spiderman Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2001 |
As a daily P-car driver, here is my take. Transaxle car owners (944,928) are the friendliest by far. Boxster owners are the snobbiest(or clueless). | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 502 Registered: 8-2001 |
Todd, the same can be said of Ferrari owners. There are factions within the Ferrari enthusiasts' rank too. The hardcore vintage guys don't really hang with the newer model guys and they don't particularly care for the new cars. It's really weird but most newer model guys I know have a keen interest in the vintage cars. There are actually some people who have a dislike (even hatred) for mid-engined V8 Ferraris. I don't understand those kind of people at all. | ||
| Todd Chen (Tec)
New member Username: Tec Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2002 |
Almost all of the Pcar owners I have met in connection with discussion boards and PCA events have been very, very cool. On top of being friendly and courteous, many of these people are very eager to share their vast amounts of knowledge and experience, and find it satisfying to help out fledgling enthisiasts like myself. These people are the true (and somewhat rare) exceptions to the porcupine rule, and the enjoyment that I get out of interacting with them makes up for all the other jerks out there who give us a bad name. This statement also holds true for the few Ferrari owners I have met at track events. The oddest thing about the Porscheworld is the amount of politics involved, which is definitely a turn-off. There's a whole lot of this petty debates about rear-engine, front-engine, mid-engine, under-powered, liquid cooled, air cooled--you name it. It seems that virtually every new Pcar is denounced by some faction as not being a "real Porsche." There's also this new ever-espoused heirarchy among Boxsters, 911's, and Turbos that you'll constantly hear about from the "experts" who office at the card table in the men's locker room at the country club. I've also note that the bulk of the people who put down the "lesser cars" have never driven their cars to any where near the limits and have never even been on (or even to) a race track. It's terribly childish. There is not really a whole lot of mutual respect between the different classes and vintages of the cars, and that takes away a lot of the enjoyment of ownership and pride in the marque. Sad, I think. Here's what I see to be the real problem with the image that Pcar owners have these days. Only 10-15% of Pcar owners I encounter in the real world are friendly, let alone cool. I believe that this phenomenon results from the fact true enthusiasts are becoming vastly outnumbered by the people who chose a 996 over, say, an SL Benz or SC430, or a Boxster over a Bimmer. Not that there's anything wrong with those cars or these people, they just aren't sports cars and their owners aren't "sports car people", nor do they care to be. There are plenty of cool Pcar owners out there, but they are not the majority. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 192 Registered: 10-2001 |
I say Volvo owners are the worst, especially the female ones. I swear they can't drive. Even my wife makes comments about them. (With apologies to the female Volvo owners who CAN drive!) | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
Junior Member Username: Markg Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2001 |
Year ago when I was in the Import Auto parts business, we had a riddle: Q: What's the difference between a Porsche and a Porcupine ? A: Porcupines have the pricks on the outside. I owned Porsches for 13 years and was a member for a month of the PCA. By and large a good group of folks - a few weeks ago I was driving up a long road in my 308 when a bright red 911 Carrera raced to cathc up to me just to wave and smile 'hello'. I think a true auto enthusiast can and does appreciate all types and model cars - I know I do! | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 115 Registered: 2-2001 |
James, I did refer to "new" Porsche owners as being the non-aficianado. I meant newer car when I said this. Owners of older Porsche cars are definitely more involved in their car. My brother has a 2001 Cabriolet and probably doesn't know how to even check the oil level. I have an '89 928GT and spent all day Sunday replacing some older worn components and seals. I am not a mechanic and can afford to have the shop do it, but I wanted to know my car better. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Junior Member Username: Solly Post Number: 180 Registered: 6-2001 |
James- Sorry about my statistically invalid sampling methodology, but I am a Porsche owner myself, so I have no innate bias against P-cars, otherwise I would not have bought one. It happens to be a terrific sports car. My opinions of the owners are based on personal experiences, and are anecdotal in nature. They are only my opinions and you are free to rebut them. | ||
| TWA (Exoticars)
Junior Member Username: Exoticars Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think it all boils down to exclusivity. The rarer the sight the more response. For example, twin turbo Porsche owners may wave and respond much more than boxster/carrera owners. Also Supra, NSX, classic corvette/musclecars, lotus, Lambo etc. owners certainly acknowledge each other on the streets more because it's a rare sight to see any of them. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1648 Registered: 2-2001 |
There is nowhere near the same percentage of Porsche driver's that are aficionados. I would go out and say there are probably a higher percentage of car guys driving Corvettes than Porsches. The only group I've ever met as cool or that waves as much to each other is Jeep Wrangler owners. They all wave when going by the other way. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 87 Registered: 7-2001 |
Doug you made some very valid points in your post, except for "They are not an enthusiast or aficianado." I think that totally wrong, although it appears that it is slowly becoming the norm with Porsches new marketing campaign towards soccer moms, yuppies and poseurs. I think the guys that are driving pre 993 based 911's have to be enthusiasts and not guys who want comfortable cars. The older 911's are noisy, the HVAC systems are terrible and they exhibit tricky handling that your average driver would simply not put up with. James | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member Username: Doug308 Post Number: 114 Registered: 2-2001 |
Many new Porsche owners buy their cars as daily drivers because they want a fun and reliable sports car with a local dealer support. They are not an enthusiast or aficianado. They just want a sports car. When they are in the car it is not primarily a weekend, nice weather, "fun" drive. They are going about their everyday business. How often do you give a "thumbs up" to every Jeep, Mercedes, Honda etc...that passes by when you are in your everyday driver? I am by no means saying that every Porsche is for everyday driving and inferring that Ferraris are always weekend only cars. But this seems to be the majority. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2001 |
Well put Peter!! that must mean you agree with what I am saying With that many Porsches on the road, you are definatly going to notice more snotty owners driving them. The overall number of snobs driving Porsches is higher than Ferraris but the percentage of snobs driving either marque is similar. Perhaps the snobs that were unable to find a Ferrari (since there are so few of them) and decided to buy a Porsche instead therefore keeping the total percentage of snobs similar between the two brands. | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 173 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry, I put one too many 'dak' in my last post. | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 172 Registered: 5-2001 |
They churn out more Porsche in one year than the total Ferrari production since day 1. Ferrari cars can be traced back to the early days of racing and F1. Porsche still remind where they originally came from,....dak dak dak dak dak ! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1645 Registered: 2-2001 |
Just cause everyone's being too nice to Pcars, I hate them again. I'm with Solly on this one. Based on my field studies, biased, incomplete, whatever they may be, Porsche owners are much more often like Steve described. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn Solly had a Pcar also so I would value his opinion. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 85 Registered: 7-2001 |
Solly, If I remember correctly from my stats class.. You have drawn a conclusion about a population of sports car drivers based on a sample that is biased or prejudiced in some manner. This is not a random sample, as you stated that there were more Porsche owners parking their cars than Ferrari and Rolls Royce owners. Your sampling technique did not adequately represent the population from which it is drawn. There are probably more Porsche cars on the street than Ferraris and Rollies combined. Therefore, it is probable that you saw a lot more snotty Porsche owners give you attitude than Ferrari owners, but the frequency of Porsche cars entering the valet must also have been higher. I suspect that the overall percentage of snobs who drive Porsches is comparable to the percentage of snobs who drive Ferraris. James | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Junior Member Username: Solly Post Number: 177 Registered: 6-2001 |
I just have this image in my mind from my childhood on Long Island of Porsche drivers as annoying, newly-rich physicians, dentists, lawyers who didn't have the time of day for a financially-challenged kid who was also a car enthusiast. Got a lot of arrogant treatment from the above as a teenager, and it colored my perception. I used to work as a valet-parker at a catering hall for extra income, and the Porsche guys were the worst. On the other hand, those few people who pulled up in Rollses, Ferraris etc. were generally nicer and "classier" IMHO. I still find this true today, and I've been to many PCA and FCA events. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Junior Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 196 Registered: 4-2001 |
ouch Willis, sounds like you've been to at least one of the PCA events in your area. =) | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 501 Registered: 8-2001 |
Dispite what some of my friends say about Porsche owners, I've yet to meet any who's rude, snooty, or just generally unpleasant. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2001 |
villamoura - the 996s are very solid cars. i own two, including a C2 Cab, and they are virtually problem-free. and i track one of them - still no problems. enjoy! doody. | ||
| 1989 328 GTS (Vilamoura2002)
Member Username: Vilamoura2002 Post Number: 281 Registered: 9-2001 |
I'll be again a Porsche owner very very soon..... I was in the past but I had so many problems with them that I decided never to buy a Porsche in the future. I will try a Carrera 4 cabrio, let's see... :-) | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
New member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2001 |
Thankyou | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 84 Registered: 7-2001 |
Solly, I dont think this has anything to do with drivers attitudes of certain marques. I certainly hope you are not implying that most Porsche owners are stuck up snobs. The fact is, there are a lot more Porsches on the roads than Ferraris. If you tried waving to every P car owner you would never be able to concentrate on driving. I give the occasional wave to a fellow supra driver, and always receive a response which is probably due to the fact that supras are not very common. I would imagine this is the case with Ferraris and other less common cars such as NSX's, MG's, Loutus, Triumphs and Austin Minis. James | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Junior Member Username: Solly Post Number: 176 Registered: 6-2001 |
I have a 911 C-4 as my daily driver, and almost always wave or blink headlights at other P-cars on the road. Approximately half respond. In the Ferrari, everyone I wave to or blink the lights at responds. Why is this? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1636 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think James has hit it, love for cars is the most important thing. I feel satisfied now, it's like the great question has now been answered. Good work James. I was just gonna say silent on a Porsche praising post, but I have to say that this was worthwhile. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Junior Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 82 Registered: 7-2001 |
I think you will find that owners of any car model can be "cool". I know guys that drive around in $6,000 mustangs, and they love their cars as much as some members on this board love their Ferraris. As much as we all like to argue and debate as to which car is better, faster and looks better. The thing that we all have in common is our love for cars, regardless of the make or how much it costs. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 568 Registered: 9-2001 |
I agree. And Porsche has excelled in every type of racing it has ever decided to challenge. The times in Porsche Club racing, the equivalent of the Ferrari Challenge Series, are much faster than the Ferrrais do. At the USGP in Indy last year the times of Porsche Club racers were much faster than the Ferrari Challenge race. Back when Porsche was in F1 during the turbo era they excelled as well. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 392 Registered: 6-2001 |
I hope i dont catch too much flack for saying this but porsche owners are cool guys too. Last night i was driving my friends black 99 camaro SS through greenwhich, ct. I dont know if any of you are familiar with the area but i pulled up next to a 996tt. I revved it at him and he rolled down his window and said "we'll see" and we talked for like 15 seconds about the cars. I knew i had no chance, but when the light turned green i figures what the hell and put it to the floor. To my suprise i didnt get my ass handed to me as bad as i thought. I know how much some of you look down on street racing but the roads were empty and how often do u get a chance to race a car like that. Anyway i think the fact that i didnt get beat badly was because the guy didnt know how to shift. Later on the road we slowed down, then i passed him and he wasnt going to let that happen and sped up. I dont see why Porsche and Ferrari drivers all cant just get along. I know there are more stuck up porshce drivers, but they all arent that way, the porsche owners on this board are cool. |