| Author |
Message |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 804
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 9:45 am: | |
Argyle -- the other side is a similar design -- the light blue/black wire going to the other water fan is connected to the 87 terminal of its corresponding relay. |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 75
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 8:18 pm: | |
Steve and Ben,
Thanks I fixed the blue wire, now what about the bluu/black wire on the same white connector, where does the other end go, which relay or fuse.
Thanks |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 802
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 3:34 pm: | |
Argyle -- Don't overly trust the "LH/RH" labeling in the documentation - a few translations from "driver/passenger" to "LH/RH" back to "passenger/driver", etc. in several different languages and it's easy to see how errors can creep in to the documents. If you remove the relays and (one at a time) connect the top center vertical female 30 terminal of the relay socket to the bottom center horizontal female 87 terminal on the relay socket with a wire/jumper (and the ignition key "on", but engine not running), the corresponding water fan motor should run (of course, in your case one side will run, but the other side won't due to the fusepanel problem). This should give you the best idea about who's who (not saying that I know that there's an error in the document in this case, but the physical jumper test is never wrong). |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 679
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 12:34 pm: | |
%99.99 of cars in the USA are LHD - Left hand drive. So the driver position is the left side of the car. Be real good if I got that backwards today...lol...as I don't have the manuals/car in front of me I couldn't tell you which relay to connect it to but the guide printed on the fuse panel door should be able to point you in the right direction. As to which connector on the relay (once you've identified the proper relay), see (once again) SteveM's post below.
-Ben |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 74
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 11:50 am: | |
Is the driver side considered RH or LH. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 801
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 11:11 am: | |
Argyle -- the light blue wire leaving at the white connector to run the water fan is (or should be) connected to one of the 87 terminals on the corresponding relay (if you remove the relay there should be small numbers printed/stamped/molded indicating which 2 spades are terminal 87) -- it should be the middle center horizontal spade and the bottom center horizontal spade on the relay IIRC. The stock setup only uses the bottom center horizontal spade, but either is OK to use. I'll email the original jpeg of my fix (internally adding a new female connector/wire to pick-up the unused middle center horizontal 87 spade of the relay) this PM, but Ben L.'s solution (adding a wire directly to one of the relay 87 spades itself) has some simplicity advantages. Was someone asking about "TR fragility"? |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 73
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 1:06 am: | |
Ben and Steve,
I saw Steve's post and I guess all I need to know is from which relay and contact on the relay will go to the blue wire on the white connector (water cooling fan on driver side) I can't see that clear on the picture posted, Steve can you send me the picture enlarged.
Thanks |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 72
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 12:46 am: | |
Ben,
I checked the connector and I want to jump it from the white connector, blue wire to ?. You said it goes to one side of the fuse, which fuse and side
Thanks |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 675
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 12:24 am: | |
Argyle - see
http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/10152.html
The "Wire Side" or output from the white connector runs power down to the fans (you can test the fan by making this wire +12v for a moment). On the input side, power comes from the +12v leads on the side of the fuse panel thru the fuse panel/board into the relay (see guide printed on panel cover) then down to the connection that becomes problematic. While you are there cleaning one up do the others that will need it, as SteveM mentioned below.
Hope that helps.
-Ben |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 71
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 11:01 pm: | |
Steve it is the fusepanel problem, I looked and saw that the solder for the fan was melted, blue wire on the white connector. Can someone tell me where this wire goes to this way I can bypass it.
Light blue wire in the white connector, where does it go on the other end of the board.
Thanks a bunch |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 798
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 9:40 am: | |
Argyle -- Unfortunately, yes. The two sides are physically/electrically independent (downstream of the main power supply) so one side "out" is the usual failure mode. This is probably the inherent fusepanel problem where something in the trace-to-solder connection-to-male tab-to-female prong connector path at the bottom of the fusepanel is frazzled (this is the path from the relay's switched output terminal 87 supplying +12V and ~9A to the large wire going to the water fan motor). IIRC the water fan wires leaving the white connectors at the bottom of the fusepanel are A (light blue) and AN (light blue/black) so you may be able to see some heat discoloration on the housing if you unplug the appropriate white connectors. It's really a potential problem on all the high-current devices driven thru the TR fusepanel (AC, fuel pumps, water fans, oil fan, etc.). If things are still in decent shape, it might be repairable/cleanable; otherwise, it requires some rewiring (there are previous posts on this). The other option is a dead motor, but that'd be lucky. |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 68
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 9:11 am: | |
Seems like my fan behind the driver's side is not coming on (only passenger side fan turns on). I swapped the fuses and relays to see if that was it, but it wasn't. Any ideas |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 669
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 5:57 pm: | |
To add to this,
Mine seems very similar to SteveM's, expect twice. First time crawling uphill in stop (and go?) traffic on a hot day with no wind, when I realized one set/side of my radiator fans had failed (the wiring issue we've discussed previously). The 2nd time was recently, very hot day (100degF ambient weather), no air movement outside, and driving a very twisty/hilly backroad at high RPM/low gears, everything got hot that day.
I think it was normal, the engine just couldn't get rid of the heat in the same way it does when it's 65-70degF with a nice Ocean breeze.
-Ben |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 796
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:21 pm: | |
My response is similar to bruce w.'s -- normal operation between ~180 deg F and maybe a needle width above the 195 deg F mark (which is where the fans kick on and they pull it back to ~185 even if just idling). What's your symptom Argyle?
|
Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Member
Username: Icnsltmfg
Post Number: 342
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:12 pm: | |
I never have had mine go beyond half way even on high temp days sitting in traffic. The car runs very cool. The oil tem is also very reasonable, and once warm stays at that number. |
bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 423
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 6:43 am: | |
argyle
as billy said, my tr goes to about 180(a little before halfway which is 195)for normal conditions and when it hits half way about 195 or so, the fans kick on and goes back down.. |
billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member
Username: 89tr
Post Number: 197
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 6:24 am: | |
Mine hardly goes up to the middle while driving in any condition. In heavy traffic it goes a tad over the middle then the fan kicks in. Do not remember numerical values off hand. |
Argyle Co (Argyleco)
Junior Member
Username: Argyleco
Post Number: 67
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:29 am: | |
Hey guys,
What should the water temperature gauge be on normal operating conditions on a Testarossa. |