| Author |
Message |
ROBERTO H. (Roberto)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 11:39 am: | |
Arnaldo
thanks for the info. but he told me the car was traded in to a dealer in New York for $66,000. Good Deal! |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 10:47 am: | |
Rick, I am not looking for a perfect car. In fact, anybody that even considers buying a Ferrari knows that it is buying a car that can not stand to a Mercedes, or a Toyota for that matter, in terms of reliability and longevity. Anyone that says otherwise is simply in denial. Nevertheless, given that you really understand what a Ferrari is all about then you must realize that a clean history in most aspects is not only required, but a must if you want to make sure your investment (or rather sacrifice!) holds its value. Specially when you consider having to sell it some day to another person with the same passion and attention to details. I am very demanding of myself and of those around me, and believe me, the fact that it is a Ferrari means NOTHING if it cannot support its own ownership, service, and maintenance history.
Roberto H., the car is actually listed in the "For Sale" section of this forum. The owner's name is Eli Youssian. Do a keyword search and it will pop-up right away. Good luck!
Arnaldo Torres. |
ROBERTO H. (Roberto)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 10:33 am: | |
ARNALDO:
CAN YOU GIVE ME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE CAR YOU WERE LOOKING TO PURCHASE. IT SOUNDS LIKE A NICE CAR AT THE RIGHT PRICE. I AM IN THE MARKET FOR A TR.
I AM NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT THE MILEAGE YOU HAVE STATED. MOST OF THESE SERVICE RECORDS ARE NOT ACCURATE ANYWAYS.
THANKS |
RICK ROMERO (Tr90)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 10:28 am: | |
HOW CAN THE MECHANIC HAVE ANY FEAR? AS YOU STATED THIS GUY IS BUYING A NEW FERRARI?
I BELIEVE YOU SHOULD PAY TOP DOLLAR AND BUY A CAR FROM A DEALER. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU WANT A PERFECT CAR AT A DIRT CHEAP PRICE? SUCH THINGS DOES NOT EXIST MY FRIEND.
GOOD LUCK! |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 6:32 pm: | |
Sounds odd, but I think you may have made the right decision based upon your own comfort level with the situation. Don't lose faith, you will find a car that's right for you.
-Ben |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 6:10 pm: | |
To those of you that assisted in my near first Ferrari purchase, an update:
After agreeing with the seller on every term of the sale, I contacted Vinny in New Jersey, which some of you and the seller suggested. After a couple of talks, and after noticing a reluctance from him to do a deep inspection of the engine and powertrain (at my expense),he finally admitted that he did not want to go to deep for fear of losing a customer (the seller who is buying another Ferrari). I appreciated his honesty. I guess the morale of the story is that no matter how good a mechanic is, if the mechanic has done work for the seller, then there is always a conflict of interest when doing a pre-purchase evaluation for a buyer.
in spite of this I decided to continue with the purchase. UNTIL!!! the night before I decided to purchase my tickets to go see the car in NY, I noticed a discrepancy in odometer readings from CarFax and car's maintenance receipts. It turns out that the car received its 7500 Miles service on January 1995, and the servicing dealer recorded a mileage of 8641 miles. Then, according to CarFax the car was titled in NY on April of the same year with a mileage of 6800 miles (give or take a few since I do not have the CarFax listing with me at the moment). After discussing it with the seller, and finding no way of confirming the CarFax numbers appropiately, I called the purchase off. Hence, I am on the market once more for my dream car.
Anyway, thanks so much for your suggestions and advice. They proved invaluable in this case.
Caribe. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 2:55 pm: | |
Yes, my insurance did not/has not required any CA proof of Reg, all they wanted to see was a COPY of my title, which was not a CA title. I walked in with my original they made themselves a copy then off to the safe deposit box with it. That was all they wanted to see. Contact me directly for more info (and to schedule your test drive).
-Ben |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 2:23 pm: | |
Ben, Did your insurance covered your car for those 91 days out state?
I know people do this when buying a large boat in CA. They keep the boat in a marina in Mexico, normally Ensenada, for at least those 91 days to avoid paying the sales tax, but I heard the state was cracking down on this practice. Perhaps, the door is still open for cars. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 1:04 pm: | |
Carfax isn't always accurate, altho they will refund your money ($20) if you find that their info is wrong. Not trying to scare everyone just this is what I have seen.
-Ben |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 1:00 pm: | |
FYI if you buy a car out of CA and then take 91 days before you reg it (technically 91 before it enters CA, but who's looking) on day 91 get it smogged then go to CHP/DMV for inspection then reg you will NOT have to pay CA sales tax. Most states have this rule as well. So if you are planning to do any work on it and not have it out on the road for a while (where it could be caught in CA) you can save yourself the tax. I know this because I did exactly that.
-Ben |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 12:44 pm: | |
Julian - I too talked with Phil - he was extremely helpful and generous with his time and knowledge.
Arnaldo, CONCOURS TRANSPORT SYSTEMS was who I used and they were great! Phone 253-973-3987. They did everything they said they would, delivered the car on time without issues and the owner, Fred Koller, was easy to get ahold of and didn't seem to mind at all when I kept bugging him about all of the details. They also seemed to be one of the more reasonably priced transporters as well.
The documents I insisted my attorney receive in exchange for the check were; the title, any lean release(s), an odometer statement, a purchase order, buyers guide/as-is statement, all service records (this is really important!) and all records pertaining to the conversion (mine is a Euro). Hope this helps - good luck! |
Julian Pham (Julian_Blk348)
| | Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 12:05 pm: | |
Arnaldo,
I'm in CA and am in the process of buying my 348ts from PA. In fact, I've already wire-transferred the money to them. This is what I did:
(1) Talked to the dealer and asked for a few recommended car inspectors
(2) I talked to Phil Tegtmeier, a 40 year veteran ferrari coucourse judge kind of guy and selected him to provide the pre-purchase inspection for me.
(3) When Phil recommended against the purchase of the car because the "as-is" condition is not the right car for me since I'm not at all a mechanic.
(4) I requested the dealer to have an independent shop (Foreign Aid) evaluate the car for a full report and cost of repairs
(5) When Sam, owner of Foreign Aid, told me that the car needs a major service to repair leaks and clutch adjustment, I negotiated with the dealer to split the cost with me.
(6) After agreeing on the final price and shipping cost, the dealer faxed me the contract with the vin# and I wire-transferred the money.
(7) The dealer will send me the title on Monday so I can get insurance for it, fax back the proof of insurance so they can get me a temp 30 day tag
(8) Once I receive the car, I will drive it to the DMV and register. Only CA tax will be paid.
Lessons learned: dealer claimed car was serviced 4K miles ago and has a brand new clutch 2K miles ago. This is true, however... it has leaks at cam seal, retainer seal, and clutch was hard to depress, out of adjustment.
Pay $200-$250 to get a thorough inspection and you won't be sorry later. Good luck and email me if you have any questions.
Julian |
frank shimie (F355)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 5:09 pm: | |
AS FOR YOUR TITLE DILEMA, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TO RUN A CARFAX AND IF THERE ARE ANY LIENS REPORTED ON THE CAR IT WILL BE LISTED NEXT TO THE CURRENT OWNERS TITLE. GOOD LUCK WITH THE CAR. |
frank shimie (F355)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 5:07 pm: | |
Arnaldo
As long as i have know vinny, he will never jeopardize his reputation and business ingiving anyone wrong information. First of all anyone that take their Ferrari's to him must be serious about keeping up with the car and is looking for quality work.
I am sure that he will give you an unbias assesment of the car. Again this is from my past experience with him. |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 4:30 pm: | |
Arnaldo..
I used a company called Dependable Auto Shippers. Look at: http://pages.ebay.com/ebaymotors/services/DAS-shipping.html
The only problem I had with them was that they told me 10 day delivery and the car wasn't going to be delivered on that day. So I called them and demanded delivery like they had promised. I needed this because I had not built any time flexibility into my escrow.com agreement. The agreement could have been changed but it does cause difficulty and the seller and I had already changed the agreement twice before. They did deliver the car on time. I can say I was happy with the handling of my car -- no damage and a good/courteous driver. I did use door-to-door delivery in an enclosed container, which is slightly more expensive. Overall, I was satisfied and would use them again but I would make my agreement with escrow.com a little different.
As far as the other items required for the sale, a bill of sale would be beneficial for registering the car in your state. If you are concerned about liens against the title, you should be able to contact that state's motor vehicle dept to check. Try this link:
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/abstract.htm |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 3:41 pm: | |
Is there a way to verify liens, and such, on a title besides looking at a copy of the owners title alone?
Stu - you said your attorney exchanged title and other appropriate docs, could you be more specific about what those proper documents were? Thanks.
Craig and Stu - which transport company did you guys use?, and were you please with them?
Frank and Robert - Do you think Vinny will be able to provide an unbias assesstment of the car since he has worked on it before?
Thanks guys, things are starting to clear up for me. Both, the escrow.com and hiring an attorney suggestions are clever recommendations that I will follow through during this process.
Arnaldo Torres. |
ROBERTO H. (Roberto)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 12:51 pm: | |
ARNALDO:
I SAW YOUR POST TODAY AND IT IS AUTO ELITE WHICH HAD PERFORMED ALL SERVICES ON MY CAR. HIS SHOP IS APPROXIMATELY 15 MINUTES AWAY FROM NEW YORK CITY AND HIS WORK IS OUTSTANDING. IF ALL THE WORK HAVE BEEN PERFORMED BY HIM OR AN AUTHORIZED FERRARI DEALER I DON'T THINK YOU WILL HAVE ANY PROBLEMS.
ANYHOW TALK TO HIM AND GET THE REAL STORY FROM THE HORSES MOUTH. LET ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. |
frank shimie (F355)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 9:04 am: | |
I used to live in princeton new jersey and moved to pennsylvania few years ago where i owned a 95 F355.
unfortunately hard times hit and had to sell my pride posession. AFter reading your post regarding a reputable ferrari mechanic in new york area i saw that you had mentioned Auto Elite.
Vinny used to work on my cars for years. He is one of the top if not the best Ferrari mechanic in east coast. I knew him from back when he used to work at Wide World Of Cars (this is the ferrari dealer where i purchased my F355). This guy is amazing and can be trusted 100%. He went on his own few years ago along with many other guys from the dealer ship, coinsidentaly most of whom are working at the ferrari dealership in glen cove long island.
I honestly do not know or heard of the shop European Motors but all i can tell you is that vinny is the man when it comes to ferrari's. |
Doug Meredith (Doug308)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 7:44 am: | |
New York to California, that's what Ferrari built the TR for. Have an unbiased inspection, fly in for a personal inspection, and then drive it home. A 12 year old car with only 17,300 miles needs to have it's legs stretched a bit. Besides the S!!! eating grin you will have on your face. you will know that car like you had owned it for years. |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 5:47 am: | |
My experience was similiar to Stu's. The only difference was that I used Escrow.com to secure my payment rather than an attorney local to the purchase. Using escrow.com cost less than $500.00 but allowed me to inspect the car on arrival and not release any money to the seller until I was satisfied. If you buy the car sight unseen, transportation should be part of the deal. Then, if you reject the car, you will only be liable for return transportation.
My only snag with the transport company was that both the seller and buyer should make sure they know EXACTLY what is required of them the day the car is to be picked up. If the car isn't ready, the pickup gets rescheduled and the timeline is thrown off.
The trickiest thing to me is to be sure the car has clear title. I had the seller fax the title to me and it showed clear. If the title has a lien, then you need to find a way to release it before you release final funds to the seller- obviously a reputable dealer is safer. The title should have a place for the lienholer to release his hold on the title- you just need to be sure that it is done properly & legally. Once this is done, you will be able to register the car in your own state. |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 2:49 am: | |
I live in Seattle and just purchased an '85 308QV - "sight unseen" - from an independent dealer in Indiana. I spoke with him a few times, asking him as many questions about the car and it's history as I could think of. With the history information, I was able to call the previous owner and spoke with him as well. Once the dealer and I agreed on a price (which did not included sales tax because you pay that in the State in which you regester the car), I did a lot of phone calling and internet searching and found an independent mechanic in the area I felt was qualified to do an unbiased, complete inspection (paid $200, which I thought was reasonable). I had the dealer drive the car to him. I then had the dealer take the vehicle to a body shop (which I also found through lot's of phone calling) to have the overall body/paint inspected. After I asked both of these shops as many questions as I could think of, I believed I had found the "right" car. (I did renegotiate the price a bit due to a few minor unforseen issues). I then, again through internet searching, found an attourney in the area to complete the transaction for me. I gave him power of attourney and sent him the funds, which he exchanged for the title and all other proper docs. I again made many phone calls and finally arranged transport with "Concours" shipping, talked to the owner of the company and was assured that the car was completlely insured and would be delivered in a safe and timely manner (which it was). I also called my insurance agent to verify and make sure that I was covered for any damages that might not be covered by the transport co. I was pleased with the overall purchase, however if I had actually seen the car, I would have negotiated for a few more items which were not described as acurately as I felt they could have been. Thankfully my mechanic said that it's one of the tightest 308's he's seen in a long time (whew!). It was a bit of a nerve-wracking experience, but it turned out great! The whole process took about 10 days and lots of long distance phone calls. The dealer felt I was being overly cautious, (to which I think he might have taken a slight bit of offense) but I'm glad I took as many precautions as I did. Certinally better "safe than sorry" with this transaction. Feel free to ask me about any other part of the process I may have forgot to mention. Good luck and have fun with it! |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 1:15 am: | |
Thanks Billy for the reference, I will definitely be calling Mike to get inform about the evaluation and services he performs.
Erik - Pardon me for been a little slow, but I have a question about this part of your reply:
"You probably will be paying on receipt of clear title, before trucking.". Who issues clear title?, and how do I get it done? Is it the State of New York?
Thanks again,
Arnaldo Torres. |
Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 12:29 am: | |
Is driving the car back to LA an option?
You will only have to deal with Ca tax.
Go with your gut feeling, it tends to take you in the right direction.
The transport co will keep you and the seller informed. You may want to try Waggoners, they do exotic enclosed transport. You probably will be paying on reciept of clear title, before trucking.
The truck co will have insurance on the car during transport as well.
I will fly to NY upon your call and drive it to LA for you. |
billy zissis (89tr)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 11:20 pm: | |
I may be able to help you a little bit in this area. I live on long island. I do not know that taking the car to the dealer is the greatest way of checking out the car because they are losing a potential customer. I know of someone in long island, whose father-in-law owned ferrari of LI before it moved to glen cove. This guy has a shop in Huntington and knows his way around Ferraris. His shop is called European Motors and his name is Mike. He has all the machines for these cars because he was the head mechanic of the dealer. I take my car there to be serviced and I trust him compleely. You can tell him that Billy with the white Tr asked you to call. He knows who I am. Try giving him a call anf see what you think, his # is (631)271-9615. He has no motive in telling you tonot buy the car, (asn a dealer might) because he is not trying to sell you anything. Buying from a private owner is competition to a dealer. Try giving him a call. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Friday, April 06, 2001 - 11:00 pm: | |
Any ideas as to how to proceed? I want to put the car (89 Testarossa, 17300 mi., black/tan) through an authorized dealer(or better) evaluation, but I need to know who to trust in the New York area. The owner faxed me all receipts since new, and everything looks very good. The major service (done 2K mi ago) and all scheduled maintenances had been carried out appropriately. The car has been serviced mostly at Ferrari of Long Island, and at Auto Elite Corp. in New Jersey. He offered his mechanic number, Vinny Latino, which I believe use to be the master mechanic for Wide World of Cars.
(ROBERTO H. - Does any of these places sound familiar? how about the mechanic you mentioned you could not remember his name or shop name? Could it be this person?)
I would like to take the car to a place where the car has not been before to get an unbiased assesstment of its condition. Hence, this two places will not do.
As far as closing the deal, what steps, in what sequence, should I follow to ensure an optimal transaction? Do these steps seem correct:
a. Obtain a comprehensive car evaluation from a reputable dealer, or Ferrari shop. What does a comprehensive evaluation should include? Compression testing, overall accessories and major components functionality inspection and testing, what else?
b. If a successful evaluation has been obtained on the car, fly over to inspect the car personally.
c. If I like what I see, should I close the deal then, or Am I forgetting something?
d. Should transportation arrangements be part of the deal? How do I ensure that the car would be available on a timely manner when the car transport company goes to pick it up? Should there be a clause in the purchase agreement to this effect?
e. Do I have to pay New York sales tax, and fees, or only California's?
f. What should I bring with me to close the deal? Should I pay on closing the deal, or when the car gets pickup, and/or deliver to me in CA?
g. Anything you guys can think of that the car transport company will require from both parties before they commit to picking up and delivering the car?
Thanks for your support on this one. I am sure many would be buyers are going or will be going through what I am going thru right now, and it helps to know that there a group of people with our best interest at heart since we all share and enjoy the passion and excitement of Ferrari.
Arnaldo Torres. |
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