| Author | Message | ||
| Mark Collins (Markcollins)
New member Username: Markcollins Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2002 |
For info in the UK we have Unleaded 95 premium 97 Super 99 Shell Optimax Leaded 97 (Lead Replacement) 98 Available in small number of sites I was recently in Italy where Shell market the Optimax product as V-max with a claimed Octane of 100 | ||
| Daren L Adkins (Schumi)
New member Username: Schumi Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bruno, I too would like a copy. [email protected] | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1194 Registered: 6-2001 |
When i was in idaho i noticed the octane was so low. I also noticed the rental car was running like crap off of 85 in the summer heat. | ||
| Erik R. Jonsson (Gamester)
New member Username: Gamester Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2002 |
I do believe leaded fuel is a no no for O2 sensors as well. Idaho carries 85, 87 89 as a standard, some 90 and stinker carries 94 (ethanol blend) | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 264 Registered: 5-2001 |
If you have catalytic converters, lead will poison them rather quickly. Other than lead deposits on the spark plugs and perhaps on the piston crowns, I don't believe lead does any harm mechanically. Conversely, use of unleaded fuel, in an engine not designed for it, can fail the valve seats and maybe the valves. One solution is to replace early, softer valve seats, with hardened ones, designed for lead fee use. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 256 Registered: 8-2001 |
I would like a copy. Also any info you have on lead requirements. Thanks, Dave [email protected] Dave Wapinski PO Box 1118 Park City, UT 84060 | ||
| bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have the Ferrari response on octane from and old newsletter. If you want a copy let me know. It beats all this guessing. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 255 Registered: 8-2001 |
Having been a licensed pilot for 20 years and having to demonistrate my knowledge of the regulatins and my flying skills every two years (more often when I rent planes), I am well aware of the regulations and I am sure every licensed pilot on the list is also. Auto fuel is used in planes designed for 80/87 and is suppose to be close. Therefore I would not accept that 80/87 cannot be used in autos without hard evidence. However, it is academatic since the odds of one finding 80/87 are very remote. People have been looking for reliable sources of 80/87 for many,many years. The only likely AV fuel one is likely to find now days is 100 LL. Normally it will cost $1 more a gallon to double. The others have been phased out for practical purposes. Even 100 LL is in the process of being phased out. However, the fuel questions are still on exams. In the real world the main thing is the difference between Jet fuel and 100 LL - that is where mix ups are likely to happen. There are more potential problems. I am not an expert in this area and do not want to be. However, I have read that the wrong amount of lead can cause things like softing and sticking of valves, deposits, fouling of plugs, etc. If the engine is designed for lead that the modern fuels are not delivering, then 100 LL maybe mixed with auto fuel might be a solution. Some AV radial engines (PW R-985) require this approach if ran on auto fuel. Lead also used to be available in cans - do not know if it still is. I would make sure no harm can be done before I would put AV fuel into an engine costing $10,000, $25,000 or whatever Ferrari engines cost. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 161 Registered: 2-2002 |
Dave, The FAA's Federal Aviation Regulations are specific as to the responsibilities of the Pilot-in-Command: Part 1 - DEFINITIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS Sec. 1.1 Pilot in command means the person who: (1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight; (2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and (3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight. Part 91 - GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES Sec. 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command. (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. (b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency. (c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator. Regarding the safe end of a flight, the FARs state in Part 91 GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES Sec. 91.103 Preflight action. Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include-- (a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC; (b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information: (1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and (2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature. Obviously, once airborne, the purpose of the flight is to reach the destination airport and safely conclude the flight. As for my remarks on AvGas, I commented accurately on the grades of AvGas currently available and remarked on their relative availability. I also commented on aromatic additives which might adversely affect automobile engine performance. I did not comment on the obvious fact that leaded fuel in cars with catalytic converters is harmful to the converter. I would really prefer not to mince words here. This is a Ferrari Forum afterall. But I feel it is important for a pilot to accurately understand the rules of flight. I appologize to the others who have read this lengthy post. Barry Wolinsky Private Pilot ASEL Instrument Pilot | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 254 Registered: 8-2001 |
Barry, I only partially agree with you. The Pilot in Command always is legally responsible for the safe end of a flight. However, it has been years since I have seen anything other than 100LL, Auto, or Jet (similar to diesel) at an airport (to include grass strips). Out of curiosity, I went to the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association web site. They have the details on over 7,500 landing facilities in the 50 States. There could be a couple of errors, but searches revealed the following results: 80/87 - 177 airports/fields 100/130 - 57 airports/fields 115/145 - 1 airport (Carson City, NV) It used to be that most carb aircraft engines required 80/87. When 80/87 was virtually discontinued, these planes had problems like lead fouling of plugs when running on 100 LL. Generally they ran better on auto fuel. Engines and spark plugs have been redesigned. GENERALLY a carb aircraft engine can run on 100 LL and auto fuel (if have the Auto Fuel Supemential Type Certificate). GENERALLY a fuel injected aircraft engine can only run on 100 LL. I have heard that 100/130 and 115/145 are no longer being manufactured. The point that I was trying to bring out that one should consider many things before putting AV fuel in a Ferrari. Will it help or hurt the vales seating (Ferrrari engines are not cheap), will the plugs foul, etc. An engine designed for lead in the fuel might be different than an engine designed for no lead in the fuel. I do not know the answers to these questions, but I know there is more than just Octane ratings. Dave I have to go down to the airport now. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 159 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bruce, I'm hardly an authority on gas, but when I'm pilot-in command, I'm responsible for the safety of the flight. It's the pilot's responsibility to see that the correct grade of fuel is being placed in the tanks. That's the reason for the colors. Barry | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 253 Registered: 8-2001 |
Outstanding breakdown on AV fuels. However, most airports now only have 100 LL (low lead) plus a few have auto fuel. 100 LL has far more lead than auto fuel. AV fuel has an exception on the lead restrictions. Eventually the exception will probably be taken away plus there is the economics of limited manufacturing runs. There is much research being done on alternate AV fuels. For the aircraft engines that can run on either 100 LL or auto fuel (my plane for one), they recommend breaking the engine in or after a valve job using 100 LL for 25 hours of use. It seems that a certain amount of lead is needed to properly break-in or seat the valves in an AV engine. Would this lead help or hurt a Ferrari engine? I do not know. It might also vary depending if the engine is new or old design. Traveling across the country, I have seen a few stations advertising leaded fuel. Is this legal and is it really leaded fuel, I do not know. | ||
| Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
New member Username: Standig Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ct: highest at pump is 93 Racing fuels also available in 55 gal drums | ||
| Oliver Cagle (Ocagle)
New member Username: Ocagle Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2001 |
So. CA 91 is highest I have found. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1549 Registered: 2-2001 |
You can purchase Union 76 racing fuel in S.C at the pump with I believe 103 octane. | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 120 Registered: 5-2002 |
Vt. is 87,89,92 I have always used the theory of seeing how the car reacts to the octane of gas I put in it does it ping etc. I have read a lot from car enthusiasts about Chevron with Techron and how that is supposed to be the best as I guess the Techron is a kind of cleaner. John B. I am suprised to hear that some stations still carry leaded I thought that was outlawed. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 477 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oregon- 87/89/92 | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 490 Registered: 4-2002 |
wow barry you are an authority on gas  bruce | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 157 Registered: 2-2002 |
Tim, Aside from AvGas being more expensive than the fuel at your local service station pumps, there is no advantage to using AvGas in your car. Indeed, it might be harmful to the engine. Here is a list of the different grades of AvGas currently available: 1. AvGas 80/87: this product is used in low compression ratio aircraft engines, contains little or no lead, is red in color, and should not be used in any automotive engine due to a low motor octane number of about 80. 2. AvGas 100/130: this product that can be used in some automotive engines. It has both research and motor octane numbers slightly over 100. AvGas 100/130 is green in color, contains four grams of lead per gallon, and is becoming harder to find. 3. AvGas 100 LL: the LL stands for "low-lead" which means two grams per gallon, low compared to the avgas 100/130 that it was designed to replace. It has research and motor octane numbers very similar to the 100/130 product previously mentioned. The color is blue. This product sometimes has a high level of aromatics which can contribute to lazy throttle response and dissatisfaction of the consumer. 4. AvGas 115/145: this product was developed for high performance piston aircraft engines used in World War II and in the Korean war. It is very hard to find anymore due to lack of demand although it is of very high octane quality. The color is purple. Barry | ||
| Marq J Ruben (Qferrari)
Junior Member Username: Qferrari Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2002 |
MD-DC-VA Metro area, same as Martin's listing for FL. 93 Octane is the highest regularly available; but there is the occasional availability of 94 Octane at the odd station or so. | ||
| John Bicsak (Funshipone)
Junior Member Username: Funshipone Post Number: 81 Registered: 1-2002 |
Michigan has, Regular: 87 Mid Grade: 89 Premium: 92 or 93 Sunoco Ultra: 94 A few stations still have Leaded for old cars 100 Popular Brands Sunoco, Shell, Mobil, Standard, BP, Citgo. | ||
| Patrick (Patrickr)
New member Username: Patrickr Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think the most I have seen around here besides race gas is 93 Patrick | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1179 Registered: 6-2001 |
Some stations around me have 87, 89, and 93. Some have 92. The local sunoco has 94 and the local century station has 100 octane, which is like 6 bucks a gallon, and its not good to put in a normal car. The airport has 110, so if i ever own a turbocharged car i know where im going for gas. | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
New member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2002 |
We have it bad here in California Martin, Premium: 91 Octane(down from 92) Plus: 89 Octane Regular: 87 Octane A few select 76 stations carry 94 Octane I was just reading some old threads on octane requirements for Fcars and there was actually quite a large percentage that felt 87 was fine. I myself will stick w/ the premium, but there was a large group that felt higher octanes were not required for daily street use. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 487 Registered: 4-2002 |
same as toms answer...nj has sunoco ultr 94 | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 471 Registered: 10-2001 |
Martin, same here in the Tallahassee area... | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 955 Registered: 9-2001 |
same for NJ though Sunco has ultra 94 | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2360 Registered: 5-2001 |
A curious question. I have seen different octane ratings in different States for "Regular" "Plus" and "Premium" What do you have in octane rating for them? Florida: Regular: 87 Octane (what the Jeep gets) Plus: 89 Octane (who knos who uses that) Premium: 93 Octane (what the Fcar gets) |