| Author | Message | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1621 Registered: 12-2000 |
To sum up what I said: Who's going to buy these cars in the future? Me  Not because I grew up with them, I just think they're neat. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1620 Registered: 12-2000 |
BobD, I should hope that prices do drop for those vintage cars. It may sound tired that I keep boasting my friend's Bugatti here, but there's nothing else like it. This car is close to eighty years old, but that supercharged 8 hauls! The precision craftsmanship is beyond anything else that came after it. It isn't a car, its a machine. I've seen this attribute in alot of other vintage cars: Morgan, Riley, Fraser Nash, etc... I've got a soft spot for these cars, I appreciate the mechanical beauty of them. And I'd love to have one! Don't worry, I have the same feelings for my GT4. Its 1975, but look at its spec compared to other cars of that period. Big fat carbs, four cams, Double-A-arm suspension, etc... Pretty tasty | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 454 Registered: 6-2001 |
I didnt know they started devlivering them that early. Where on the Taconic can you go fast? After yorktown it is 2 lanes all the way up. The only place i can think of is from hawthorne to millwood. I can tell u from experience that 287 is good for speed too but it has some traffic, one time my friend made it from p'ville to white plains in 5 minutes (with no traffic and not doing anything stupid of course). I dont care much for high speeds on highways, i just love taking corners fast. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 95 Registered: 12-2001 |
Tim: i usually avoid 684 as a speed trap; also, the expansion joints make a nasty thrum at speeds short of aircraft take-off. Did play with a big block 67 vette there a couple of years ago. i prefer the taconic, both the big stretches for speed and the windy, hilly stuff with the stone walls, etc. Ditto, 9w near storm king. As to the top, i guess i'm getting old but there are occasions when it would be nice to be able to put the top up, say late evening, driving home from a nite out with my wife (she gets cold sooner than me) or, yes, when it rains... Let's see, 4005 miles from mid-july thru early Nov., when i put the car up (all recreational, noncommuting, during the day, dry weather driving). | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 94 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yep, i've had the occasional limo driver refuse to go there. From what i gather, its not exactly an oasis on the hudson. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 446 Registered: 6-2001 |
Theres an Irvington, NJ? | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
Junior Member Username: Icnsltmfg Post Number: 240 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whart...are you talking about Irvington NJ or is there an Irvington NY. I have not seen too many Ferrari's in Irvington NJ when I drive to EWR. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2002 |
Yes, Bob, it makes lots of sense. Some old cars continue to hold their value because they have a 'name', like Duesenberg. Ferrari may do the same. Even so, Duesie prices have dropped a lot lately, at least partly because the Imperial Palace in Las Vegas had about 40 of them that they dumped on the market. Eventually, all cars will drop in price as their core group of enthusiasts die out. The question is, how far will they drop? The people that spent $100K plus for COPO Camaro's at Barrett Jackson are bound to get hurt someday. And pity the poor guys paying $4 million for Cobra Daytona Coupes. But then again, money is relative. A person making $35 K/year would think it decadent to pay $70k over list (200% of their yearly take) to get a Ferrari faster than the next guy in line. An NBA player making $7 million per year wouldn't think twice about spending 1% of his income for that same privilege. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 444 Registered: 6-2001 |
Billy, another good road to step on it is 684 after armonk, it was repaved last year so its smooth. I dont like to speed that much but i was in a rush to get back from the SATs at fox lane for a football game and i did 130 for about 8 miles and my car has absolutely no power and there arent any cops. 84 is the road to danbury right? Speaking of danbury some of u ferrari guys should go to the classic car show at marcus dairy and give lambo nick some italian company, hes the only one there with an italian car (there might be an alfa or two). Wm hart- They really shouldnt have provided a top. Its only good to 70mph and it looks awkward on the car but i gues its good to have in case it rains unexpectedly. How many miles are on it? i bet you couldnt wait till the engine was broken in so u could open her up. Its good to see you and most of the guys on the board use your car for what its meant for while still being responsible. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 257 Registered: 3-2001 |
Here's my take on "Classics". Classics are the cars we all grew up with... the ones we always dreamed about when we were 16-20 years old. It's all relative. So as we grow older and generate disposable income, we're able to purchase that special car we always desired XX years ago but couldn't afford at the time. Take a look at the Pebble Beach Concours participants... most of these guys appear to be in their 60's and 70's, right? And they're entering cars manufactured back when they were teenagers... cars from the 40's, 50's & 60's. This isn't always the case but it sure seems to be the trend. So the question becomes what will these cars be worth in another 20 or 30 years when all these guys are dead... the guys that always dreamed of owning them? Are any of us going to be interested in cars we never grew up with? I think the value of the really old classic cars will drop as the population ages and demand decreases. I don't know about the rest of you, but I could care less about a 1938 Delahaye 135MS De Villars Cabriolet. It may be a $Million car but I have zero desire to own it, I never grew up with it. And to say the least, I'd feel like an idiot driving the thing. And this car won it's class at Pebble. Make any sense??? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 88 Registered: 12-2001 |
Don't know if any of the modern cars fit into a definition of "classic" since that suggests to me, attributes of a bygone era, like the 365 gt 2+2 and gtb/4 which started this thread. (at the same time, i am glad that Ferrari has not indulged in the retromobile styling that has been the rage among U.S. automakers, since there is something about a "new" T-bird that just doesn't cut it with me). I don't honestly know what the long range market for the Barchetta is. A few of the cars have interesting little "one-off" details, owing to their owners' sufficiently close relationship to the factory, to get that little "extra." (That is one of the things i really love about the early Ferraris:-every one was different even if it was the "same," at least up through the 250 series, and for a little longer, on some of the other cars). The top is truly a pain in the ass, and having said that, i am tempted to then say: they shouldn't have bothered to provide a top at all. Guess what? They didn't. I don't even keep it in the trunk. As to the performance of the car (i actually drive these things) it is in all respects better than the 97 Maranello i had. I don't know if brand new out of the box 550's have all been improved to the same extent, but the low end torque is better, and the car(despite its open top) is altogether tighter feeling. May be its a function of a brand new car (i got the Maranello used), but i've put a few miles on the Barchetta and it is just getting sweeter, not "looser." | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2002 |
William: I saw your car in Forza and R&T and love it! Now that you've had it a while, what are your impressions? Do you ever use the top, or do you leave it in the trunk? Do you think the Barchetta will become a classic? | ||
| michelangelo pinto (Michelangelonyc)
New member Username: Michelangelonyc Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2002 |
nice Don didn't think there were tht many around... it seems as if the value of ours went up a bit, called a dealer today and they had a 68 365gt 2+2 with 111k kilometers =60k ish miles with 7 out of ten paint & he was asking 59thou.. | ||
| michelangelo pinto (Michelangelonyc)
New member Username: Michelangelonyc Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2002 |
i went to pick up the corrado today and told him someone on the ferrari board saw the car in the shop and he got a nice chuckle...and in regards to how longwehave owned it ..i'll tell the story since its a good one... okay once upon a time in 1972 my father was in Italyat the ferrari dealer( which one i dont recal) and they had many to choose from ..but my father kept going back to this 365gt and the salesman said..nah forget hat car thats the old man's car (which was the owner ofthe place and very close with enzo ferrari) in Italy once you turn i believe its 65 you cant drive a 12cylinder car so it was in the show room with about 4k kilometers...the old man came out and asked my father why he kept looking at that one .."cuesta qua no ne per vendere" (its not for sale) after a while the old man said ..i'll sell it to you if you promise to never sell it.. and so he sold my father the car for 5k thats right 5,000 !! car now has 22k kilometers and is fully restored ..we just got it back on new years eve after a year or more of restoration which included going to metal then full paint and full interior .. other that the very recent ferrari's i agree you cant beat the late 50's to late 60's F's !! | ||
| Don Vollum (Donv)
New member Username: Donv Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2002 |
Nice 365! I have a 365GT 2+2 as well. Mine is red with a black interior. I've owned it for nine years, and driven it about 10,000 miles with very few problems. Just last week I bought a 3.2 Mondial Cabriolet, so now I have a "modern" (for me, anyway) Ferrari. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 119 Registered: 4-2001 |
I have seen you driving up around that area. I always have either the 355 or the TR up there. My girlfriend lives in Dobbs Ferry. Best road to step on it is on 87 north after the tolls. I have hit 150 with the TR and 160 with the 355. I have seen the car in person. Beautiful car. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Junior Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have that article in front of me as I type. We are surrounded by a celeb! I can't wait to see the car. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1761 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well I'll be damned, I never even realized. I guess I know what your car looks like now Bill. I just happened to have the Forza on my desk as I was reading this post. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 435 Registered: 6-2001 |
So i guess you do know him. Thats a beautiful car, enjoy it. 448 is so much fun in between sleepy hollow phelps way. I blast through there at about 75 in my Audi. There are alot of nice roads off of 22 in bedford. Rt 433 in armonk is nice too, so is 128. There are lots of fun roads just over the ct boarder around banksville too. Cant wait to see you and your car at that auction. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 85 Registered: 12-2001 |
Dude: i am the guy in Irvington with the 550 barchetta that was featured in R&T (and is also the Forza cover car, April,2002). There is another one in the neighborhood, also black, but i think he ordered the seats in cuio (naturale). Love driving up 448, heading your way, but usually crank up 9A, hit 100 (the route, i would never drive at that speed) and then do the Taconic or 22. The Tarrytown auction is a very nice event, the catalog costs a few bucks, but that's your admission fee, and there are alot of fun cars to see: bugatti single seaters, old bentley convertibles (the Goldfinger Rolls was there a year or two ago), usually a bunch of ferraris, as part of the sale and in the parking lot. I'll post the date here, unless somebody beats me to it. See you. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 433 Registered: 6-2001 |
Whart, do you know the guy in irvington with the 550 Barchetta? It was featured in road and track. What other kinds if cars are there at the auction? I never heard of it and i live in plesasntville, but that might be because im not into cars that old. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 83 Registered: 12-2001 |
Michelangelo: your 365 looks better than new. Did you buy it fully restored? Do you keep it in NYC? Ihave always loved the 50's and 60's cars, but every time i have bought an F car (i've had six so far), i wind up opting for a more modern car, largely because i drive them, and am concerned about reliability, and parts, as well as drivability. Earliest F car i owned was an 83 boxer, which was great, but i think this car may have been less trouble than its predecessors. Do you drive north of the city? i am in Irvington, just south of the TZ bridge and would love to see your car if you come up this way... | ||
| Kendall Kim (Kenny)
New member Username: Kenny Post Number: 23 Registered: 9-2001 |
Michelangelo- good luck with the Ferrari, I remember a few years back when that car was nothing more than a shell sitting in storage in the back of his garage.. Gianni's been servicing my BMW for years now, if your Corrado is dark green with aftermarket wheels, I've seen it there.. I'm still trying to meet the owner of the silver Maserati Bi-turbo coupe that seems to be in Gianni's shop EVERYTIME I been there.. Someday, I will get my F-Car and Gianni will the first person I go to.. | ||
| michelangelo pinto (Michelangelonyc)
New member Username: Michelangelonyc Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2002 |
here are some more pics ..   | ||
| michelangelo pinto (Michelangelonyc)
New member Username: Michelangelonyc Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2002 |
yessss kenny.. same car! gianni is a friend of ours he does all our work. He is cleaning up my lil VW Corrado VR-6 now. He also did our 76' Fiat 500. Car is so cute painted in ferrari yellow. He had extra paint from a job. I will upload pics when i get the chance. Its a small world after all... | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2002 |
What makes a classic? Time is one factor, exclusivity another. If you want to know what the coming hot car will be, determine what cars the people with money lusted after in high school. Those are the cars that are on the 'must have' list when we reach a certain economic level. Yes, any Ferrari will be a classic to some extent, but some will be more coveted than others. Very few Ferraris that were built past 1970 are true classics because the production levels are so high. How else do you explain $30K 308's? Dinos seem to be doing well, but Daytona prices have dropped severely over the past eighteen months. Bill Noon at Symbolic told me that he expects them to plateau at $75k. that was in October, 2000 and it hasn't happened yet, but they seem to be hovering around $90K. Those are asking prices, so maybe people are really getting $75K. 288 GTO's, F40's and F 50's will be the strong performers because of their rarity. Remember that most cars go in and out of style. That's why Testarossa prices aren't as strong as they had been. They are very 'eighties' cars, and they represent a period that rewarded excess. They also have a bit of a drug dealer connotation thanks to Sonny Crockett and Miami Vice. If you love the cars for what they are like I do, now may be the time to buy a Testarossa and the hell with what the general public thinks. The 360 will probably hold it's value fairly well because it is so awesome, but it too will eventually become a used car. Few high volume Ferraris will command high six figure prices like the cars of the Fifty's and Sixty's do, at least as long as hundreds and maybe thousands of them remain on the planet. Remember, many of those Sixty's Ferraris had production runs of a hundred or less. Buy the car you love because you love it and, if you can also make money, that's icing on the cake. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Junior Member Username: Jay Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that ANY Ferrari will be a classic, by anyones standards. Look at what is happening to the muscle cars in the US. Mass produced Camaros and Buicks are selling for tens of thousands of dollars. Certainly a Ferrari with it's low production numbers, styling and image will be classics in the future. Personally, I love the older Ferraris best, you can't beat the lines from the 60's & 70's. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 202 Registered: 10-2001 |
Cars with a long history of the same general body style like the Lotus Esprit tend to be less 'classic' even though Esprit S1 owners pretend they are. I consider the 308/328 classic for their beauty even if they are 'plentiful'; I doubt the 348 will fare as well in 30 yeras. I think ANY pre 308 is a classic, as is a 512 BB...TR's should become classics in 30 years I would think. It's important however that the car in question is not too 'common' even by Ferrari standards. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1076 Registered: 2-2001 |
How many years have to pass before a car is considered vintage or classic ? I love my 9 yr old 512TR & wouldnt think of trading her for any other road Ferrari, well Just maybe a nice F40 if the price was right. For classics I have an 84 308QV, an 86 Lambo Countach which is a 32 year old design & the 68 Corvette which is almost as old as I am | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2001 |
Older cars are timeless. You never want to trade them for the newest model or worry about mileage. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 115 Registered: 12-2001 |
WOW, that's a great looking car! | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
New member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2002 |
I agree, we need more vintage Ferrari's on this board  | ||
| Kendall Kim (Kenny)
New member Username: Kenny Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2001 |
Very nice car, Off chance question, but is this the same car restored by Gianni Gugliotta at G&B motors in Long Island City?? He had the same exact car he's been restoring for some time now.. | ||
| James P. Smith (Tigermilk)
Junior Member Username: Tigermilk Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2001 |
Nice looking car. For my "next" Ferrari some years in the future, I'm torn between something beautiful like a TR or a classic 60s car. I love the 330 2+2. Your 2+2 is a piece of art. Thanks for sharing. | ||
| Lung (Lung7707)
New member Username: Lung7707 Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2002 |
OH MAN!!! | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
New member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2001 |
WOW! | ||
| michelangelo pinto (Michelangelonyc)
New member Username: Michelangelonyc Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2002 |
greetings from nyc.. just curious to what kind of classics we have on this board.. fully restored 69' 365gt2+2 22k kilometers here ..   |