| Author |
Message |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 4:16 pm: | |
Heath, I enjoy maintaining my Ferrari, it's my diversion. However I dont' think it hurts to discuss the pros and cons of the car. At this point this discussion reminds me of a group of guys trying to prove who has the "biggest dog". Everyone has their own love affair with their Ferrari, so since this a chat line I think everyone should be able to "Call em as they see em". End of my part in the discussion. Regards, MAGOO |
HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 3:21 pm: | |
OK MAGOO, I WILL HAVE TO RESPECT YOU AND SAY YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT. I WOULD ALSO HAVE TO SAY, IF YOU DON'T TRULY LOVE SPORTS CARS AND HAVE ABIALITY TO TINKER WITH THEM YOU WILL MAKE SOME MECHANIC A VERY HAPPY PERSON. THE PASSION AS SOME WOULD CALL IT IS JUST NOT FOR THE LOOKS OF THE CAR BUT THE DESIRE TO MAINTAIN IT TO PERFECTION. IF FERRARI DID NOT PRODUCE A PERFECT CAR THAT,S QUITE ALRIGHT, I'LL TAKE IT FROM THEIR.
HEATH |
David Prall (Davidpra)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 12:57 pm: | |
Magoo (and everyone else):
That's funny... I actually made a typo, I meant "assess" (as in 'to assess a situation' - verb), not "asses" (as in the plural of the derogatory). My bad... |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 10:03 pm: | |
HEATH, I agree with you 100%. I enjoy my Ferrari very much and it gives me great pleasure when I drive it or just look at it's unique styling sitting in my garage. I am not condeming the car, because it has more going for it then it does against it. The only thing I think should be addressed is the fact that there are problems with the cars that have been the same problems for years. Why? This being a open chat forum it seems to me we should not stick our heads in the sand, but be able to discuss the bad as well as the good. MAGOO |
HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 9:31 pm: | |
MY ANSWER TO A LITTLE DISTURBED IS THIS. TODAY I DROVE MY MONDIAL TO NASHVILLE TN. AROUND 400 MILES ROUND TRIP WENT UP WITH THE TOP UP AND AC BLOWING COLD CAME BACK WITH THE TOP DOWN AND DIGGING THE HELL OUT OF IT. IT'S DAYS LIKE THIS THAT NOT ONLY MAKE THE FERRARI WORTH EVERY PENNY BUT THIS IS WHAT LIFE IS WORTH LIVING FOR!!!
YO BUDDY
HEATH |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 7:02 pm: | |
Hey Dave, again it doesn't make sense, this is the first time I've heard of a person using logic referred to as a ass. Guess your concept of this discussion is much different then how most people see it. MAGOO |
David Prall (Davidpra)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 1:33 pm: | |
Ahhhh...
But, we are not talking about abject "value" -- we are talking about "perceived value", which includes such arbitrary ideas as sentimentality and subjective taste. This is much harder to define and impossible to asses with logic.
All of us here (at Ferrari chat) value our cars, but many people may not value a Ferrari -- especially when the cost of a new one is more than some peoples' homes...
Cheers |
Larry (Larry)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 10:12 pm: | |
having raced, F1600, F2000, FAtlantics; the teams would always go thru and replace or reinforce parts of a space frame or tub, before they hit the tracks. these were brand new, coming from the UK most of the time.(Ralt,Reynard) a new 70k tub that flexed? nothings ever perfect! (ever heard of boeing or supply and demand) though it did allow one to know what the car was all about; which gave confidence to keep your foot buried, knowing it would stick. so, replace those weak valve guides or cheap brakes...........you'll have more fun standing on those peddle's. Cheers mate |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 8:17 pm: | |
Hey Dave, Don't get me wrong, because I'm as crazy about the car as anybody, but doesn't that logic sound stupid when you think of the word "value." MAGOO |
David Prall (Davidpra)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 6:44 pm: | |
Not sure I understand asking the question ---- I mean ask yourself this...
If you could build unreliable cars that you couldn't sell enough of (waiting lists, and open bidding above MSRP from customers) for $150K-300K; what possible incentive would you have to invest money in improvements?
So my answer to your question is simple -- "Ferrari doesn't build them better because they don't have to". People want them despite their shortcomings. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 12:31 pm: | |
Ferrari is race bred. I hang out with the SCCA racing types and race myself. Instead of being race cars made for the street, most of the SCCA cars are street cars made to race. No matter how your car ended up in it's present state, a performance car will experience many of the same challenges. It doesn't matter if it's a Ferrari, Viper, Z06, Porsche, or Dodge Neon club racer. Are you telling me a Ferrari has significantly more problems than these other cars? Most SCCA racers have their race car and a couple other "parts cars" just to keep it going. I think the several opinions about the reliability of Ferraris is from people that are in the performance car arena for the first time. Buy a Lotus Turbo and keep it for a year. |
JPM (John_308qv)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 10:50 am: | |
These are exotic, high performance cars. Check out the chat forums for other high performance vehicles like Corvette/Viper/Porsche and you see a lot of discussion regarding maintenance and repairs. These owners do not consider their cars hunks of junk!
Having owned and maintained my share of sports cars (240Z, Corvette, and Porsche) before the Ferrari, I have always considered regular maintenance and repairs a given. Over the years my main criteria is did the car leave me stranded at any time? If not, I can live with the rest and enjoy.
The Ferrari has never let me down on the road and brightens my day every time I drive it. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 3:47 am: | |
Herbert, I can probably answer your question best as I do something very similar. As you may already know, I build aircraft refuelers. Airports are now using refuelers that pump from underground tanks (intead of a truck that carries the tank, which we also build as well). These hydrant carts were new to us, so I'll admit on our engineers behalf that we hadn't a f---ing clue what we were doing. That first one that rolled off the line...for the third time... ended up costing $600000! We had changed the piping, hose-reel layout, man-lift cage, filters, the driver's cab, etc... All because the other engineers got feedback from the airports that it was wrong. And the hours on it added up.
That was two years ago
Now we are building them on Isuzu 1-ton cab-overs and have figured the layouts and components to use. And price has come down substantialy. Basically our customers were guinea pigs, but our quality of work on the final product is what kept our reputation. Now the orders are coming in.
So in total we've built about eight, three so far with this "evolution". Not a whole lot to learn of all the problems encountered in the real world, but nonetheless we've learned.
So maybe the same applies to Ferrari as well. They probably don't have enough of the resources to work out all of the problems. Like the others had mentioned that giants like GM, Ford, Toyota, spend billions to develop a model...I will say that even they are not totally immune! Sure they can remedy it free to the customer, because of their size, they can absorb the expense. Ferrari is too small and not enough funds to do the same. They are just damn lucky they have us to put up with it and accept it because of that passion. That's the way I understand it and can relate to it. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 12:07 am: | |
YOU know, we're all the same. The reason we like this car is because we want a car that is unique and sexy,that others drool over. Basicly others are afraid to own one. But not us, we are thrill seekers always looking for a challenge and not afraid of the unknown. Well lets face it, we got it and until we change that way of thinking we will be back for more. I'll probably change when hell freezes over. MAGOO |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 10:09 pm: | |
I have been looking to Ferrari for a while, and I am nearing the acquisition of one, a Testarossa. As soon as I find one that meets a demanding criteria of care and condition that I have set for myself. Part of the reason I have set a higher criteria for the car is the fact that I have driven a few examples that have provided more disappointment than excitement. Regardless, I have come out to the conclusion that Ferrari is a little more than numbers and for that matter reliability. Been an engineer, I can appreciate the amount of effort and dedication with which Ferrari designs, and develops its cars. Adding heritage, tradition, and history with everyone that ships from the factory. Nevertheless, the fact remains that no matter how good a design is, there are issues that can only be found through testing and the number of cars tested/produced. Knowing how very limited a Ferrari production is as compared to other manufacturers such as Toyota or GM, it is not wonder to me that there is just not enough cars been produced to catch all the bugs that could be fixed for the next production year. Think about it, GM along outputs more cars in one year than perhaps Ferrari has produced in its long entire history. Companies like GM, Toyota, etc. have the benefit of obtaining tons of data from their support and service centers that can manage to clean up their designs for years to come. And that brings me to another point, Ferrari changes its cars substantially from one model to the next, consequently creating new issues for new designs that can only be solved by their experience with the numbers of cars been produced. Hence, perhaps the reason why initial runs for new models tend to have more bugs and issues than the same model towards the end of their production run. Of course, this is also true for the other manufacturers but they have the benefit of maintaining a large number of components the same from model to model and from year to year which makes any issues easier to detect and consequently solve.
With this in mind is that I reach my final conclusion, it is not how many issues there are with some of the cars, but how lucky we are that there are not many more.
God bless those engineers that with so little can do so much!
Caribe. |
jim galli (Galli)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 10:02 pm: | |
Well when I purchased my 328 I didnt think of it as everyday transportation just as a sunday cruiser but I know what you mean just when you think you have all the kinks worked out some little thing will happen and I am the type of tech that as to fix it RIGHT NOW.I have other sports cars but the ferrari will always put a smile on my face |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 9:09 pm: | |
Magoo, you really hit the nail on the head. We don't really know why we come back for more, and the woman point. Well said. |
Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 7:18 pm: | |
It would seem that many problems stem from a lack of proper maintenance, but yes- Ferrari lacks in the electrical system. I am finding many tend to simply replace inadequate things with like parts.(ie. window motors/fuse panels/relay panels) I find that there not being a whole lot of choices in aftermarket products has us by the shorthairs too. We aren't dealing with a mass production firm either. Overall the technology has made for a more reliable car. Yet emissions and safety are issues Ferrari has to contend with, coupled with a demanding customer, thus creating an ever changing product-and more "bugs." From an engineering standpoint, many of our cars are aging and we need to determine the cause of our gremlins and repair/upgrade the source of the problem. So much for being a purist. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 6:39 pm: | |
Herbert, I tend to agree with you. The more I research and follow the Ferrari history, the more I am disappointed. I like the car and enjoy driving it more than any vehicle I have driven. I don't have the answer, unless the Ferrari is like a woman, "You can't live with em' and you can't live without em'." What is so ironic is that we keep coming back for more. MAGOO |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 6:32 pm: | |
You could make so much evidence to support your case, ridiculous amounts. But they must be doing something right to get all of us hooked. I look at it this way. The Ferrari is the care that you will get the most out of, and following that it is the care you will put the most into. If you want to get the best, you have to work for it. No other cars can offer what a Ferrari can, a person has to decide if it is worth it to them to put in a little more to get so much more out. Deep down inside, we love these Ferrarisms, we wouldn't be so attached to our cars if we didn't have to work on them so much. Anyway, they are essentially detuned racing cars with nice leather interiors, not just mass production cars with a more power and handling like vettes and mustangs. |
Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 5:37 pm: | |
After reading all the posts for a year or so I am becoming a little disturbed and maybe others feel the same way about all of the defective cars that Ferrari makes. Just think before you attack me but the 308s used oil and had weak syncros and some engines were replaced. Every one says not to buy a 348 because of electrical problems, the TRs had timing belt problems, and now I read that there are 355s with problems. Believe me I am a Ferrari fan but Damn, for what these things cost shouldn't you expect reasonable service and factory backing. If 348s have known electrical problems why does the factory not fix them free. The same with all the other defective year models why is there not a factory recall on defective systems and sub systems. I work on all types of cars and no other manufacturer could get away with producing such bad cars and getting away with it especially at the price of the cars. If this were a Yugo we were talking about it would be different but we are talking some of the most expensive cars in the world and it just seems that any time anyone asks about a certain model or year that they want to purchase, someone says not to buy that model or year because of specific major problems. If I am out in left field then let me know, but the evidence keeps mounting. |
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