| Author | Message | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 344 Registered: 2-2002 |
In a way you guys are making my point for me. In the high performance car market image and perception are more important than fact. If, as Sports Car Market magazine said, the 456 is doomed to be the next 412 resale-wise, image and perception are the cause--not actual performance. WE know that the 456 is a very competent high performance machine, but the people who populate this board tend to buy their cars because of the way they perform and not because of what it says about them when they throw their key fob down on the restaurant table. Unfortunately everyone isn't like that and it takes the opinions of many different types of people to create a buzz about a model and therefore affect demand--especially for very expensive used cars. How do you revive the image of the 456? The 456 engine has always been a detuned version of the 550. Why not equalize the engines between the 2 and 4 seat models? Then you aren't giving up anything on the spec page and the perception that the 456 is somehow inferior is no longer valid. I also think that the automatic transmission hurts the image. A switch to an F1 transmission will help. The flip side is that people who understand can buy an excellent four seat performance GT very cheaply because of lack of demand. But Ferrari is a smart company and they aren't going to continue selling a model that is not in high demand. They got out of the 4 seat business for many years, and may do so again, leaving that part of the market to Maserati. If they do, we all lose. | ||
| Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
New member Username: Jammy Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2002 |
"people may PERCEIVE that it is less sporting and rather dull. " I'm sure this is what people PERCEIVE as I howl through my village in a bright red 456 with a Koenig exhaust  Shouldn't really be in first gear but it does keep the revs up! | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 196 Registered: 3-2002 |
bill, how much more sporting can you make a luxury 4 seater coupe gt? they are currently saying the 456 replacement will of course be quicker,faster etc. but i suspect it will be less than a 5pct increase in any category. this is great, but i think it is warping people's perception of the capabilities of the current car. refer to the other thread currently going on about 456's. seems to me ferrari have made the fastest (regular production) car in that category. whether or not people think its sporty enough. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 340 Registered: 2-2002 |
Do you think Ferrari is responsible for the poor resale value on the 456? Upgrade the power to 575 levels, make it more sporty and make it a 4-seater worthy of the Ferrari name. This is not to say that it doesn't deserve the name now, but that people may PERCEIVE that it is less sporting and rather dull. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 796 Registered: 8-2001 |
Forget about the term "investment". If someone is smittened by the 456, he/she will buy it and enjoy it. I hope everyone here bought your Ferrari(s) because you liked your car(s), as I did, rather than hoping for a potential lurcrative resale value. | ||
| James ODonnell (355m3)
New member Username: 355m3 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2002 |
Beware of the 456 resale." Sports car market"states the 456 may turn out to be the next 412 resale wise. The 355 has and will continue to be a better investment. Hope this helps. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2002 |
Personally, I'm absolutely in love with the 465, have been ever since I saw it for the first time in Performance Car (Interior shot, looking out at a blured landscape.) I really feel the 465 is one of the best kept Ferrari secrets of all time. Then again, I also feel the F355 is one of, if not THE single greatest automobile ever created... In other words, I want to own both, and am unsure of the order. Tough call, don't think I helped much :D) Economy wise, the 465 is a bit of a better buy now, so you could do an early car, then a 355 later when they're below 100k. Best! Ben. | ||
| Lung (Lung7707)
Junior Member Username: Lung7707 Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2002 |
John, I have to agree with you, am veering towards a 355, already have a 7 series, wife drives it...so no real point have another "family" car. hmmmm...btw do you know what 5 year US$IRS doing today? Mitchell, will email you seperately when i get home. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 120 Registered: 4-2002 |
Lung, I know this is off topic, but would you mind e-mailing me with some information on your TR - 512M look conversion? I am ver interested in your experience. I know we are all bussy, if you do not have time, no bother | ||
| John Li (Pchop)
New member Username: Pchop Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2002 |
Lung: from the picture of your profile, you either retain your youth extremely well, or you're too young to drive. Nevertheless, I suggest get a well maintained 355 spider (I love mine) for $125K and buy a brand new family mobile (S-Class, 7 Series, LS430, etc) for another 70K. You get to have the best of both world. Although I agree that a 456 is a extremely well put together, but if you're into comfort, then get a true German Flagship. Owning a 355 spider is like having a Sexy Victoria Secret Lingerie model that you're maddly in love with, but goes in and out of drug rehab... | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 161 Registered: 5-2002 |
You can look at it this way, You've already owed two 2 seater F-cars. It wouldn't hurt to owe one of the greatest 4 seater around.. $225,000 brand new and you can get an excellent example now for under 100k.. Value wise, I'd go with the 456... | ||
| Pascal A. J. Maeter (Maeter)
New member Username: Maeter Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2001 |
I had both at the same time until last year when I traded the F355 for an F40. The main reason was that although the "packaging" of the 355 was fantastic, it did not "go" as much as I wanted a two seater Ferrari to go. The 456GT is used for all long-distance driving because of its comfort, great handling and unbelievable performance. There is a long list of Porsche owners who thought they were toying with a big sedan and did not realize it packs 442 bhp! I would also aggree that the build quality and finish is of a much higher, touring standard than the V8 cars. In addition, it has what I believe to be one of the best line ever, and reminds me of the Daytonas. Will be a classic one day and I will never sell it because everytime I look at it or drive it, it amazes me how great it really is. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1045 Registered: 9-2001 |
I agree with Ross. My 400GT, TR and 330GTC were all better constructed than my 328GTS and current 348 Spider. Although my 1994 348 Spider has a much better build quality than my 1986 328GTS did. I guess the whole 348 line had improved by 1994. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 180 Registered: 3-2002 |
you are trying to compare apples and oranges. but here are some comments: i had a 348, loved the engine but everything else about it was substandard in my opinion. build quality, interior parts, leaking roof etc. complained to the dealer all the time, finally he tells me that 8cyl cars are not built to the same spec as 12 cyl cars since the audience is totally different. so if i wanted german build quality i should buy a 12 cyl (post '92). so i bought a 512tr. night and day. that car is the best car i have ever owned, as a combination of build quality vs performance vs cost. and an immense improvement over the 348. i have friends with 355's who love them and i have driven them numerous times at track days. the interior is a step up from 348 but still not as good as the 512tr, plus everything feels a little brittle. whereas the 550's i have sat in, and the 456's i am currently looking at buying, again seem bulletproof (as much as italian machinery can...). they are extremely well put together and inspire confidence. i think this build quality has also now come into the 360's. so on quality i would say 456 wins over 355. driving it is a different thing altogether. and others have already made that point. | ||
| Mark Izzo (Tdf355)
Junior Member Username: Tdf355 Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2002 |
Frank- Im telling my 355 you called it a Dino. She is gonna be pissed!! | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2002 |
I also like both cars, but a used 456 is just too good of a value to pass on. For $90K you should be able to find a mint condition low mileage 456 with a full service history. One word of warning if you do get the 456. Many of the 456 cars have large gaps between the windows and door frames (an inch or more is not uncommon). Six months ago Ferrari was refusing to repair this under warranty due to the $7K price tag to correct the situation. I do not know if they are now honoring the repair under warranty, but verify that this problem has been taken care of for any potential 456 you may consider. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2377 Registered: 5-2001 |
Adult ehy? hmm, thinking here..... | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 395 Registered: 12-2001 |
This is a "problem" that no one's advice can help you sort out, if your focus is the drive, not the "investment" value. If you are anything like me, once you have the 456, you'll wish you had something smaller and more nimble on the twisties, and perhaps the open top. And, when you drive the 355, you'll think, gee, for the same money i could have massive torque, and a more "adult" machine, more comfort, room, higher standard of interior finish, etc. So, basically, you're •••••• no matter what you choose. Enjoy. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2001 |
The 456. Although, over the last 5 years, the market has dictated incredible depreciation for the 456, in Ferrari's eyes (and who should know the car better?), the 456 is worth some 75,000 USD more than the 355. That money has to go somewhere, and it's money well spent if you look at the engine, chassis, etc. If driving a GT that's more stealth than the 355 doesn't bother you at all, then go for the V12. But the cars do feel completely different! Can't you get some drive time in both and then decide? | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2002 |
My vote would be the V12. The 456 is simply gorgous. And to seat 4 is such a nice bonus. Go for the 456! When the market turns, you'll be able to get that 355 too. Best of luck. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 106 Registered: 4-2002 |
Which one do you fantasize about driving? There is your answer. Really... | ||
| Lung (Lung7707)
Junior Member Username: Lung7707 Post Number: 70 Registered: 1-2002 |
stephen, Unfortunately my wife would object to two Ferraris aound the house. I feel that with the heavy depreciation of the 456 it would be a good value for a V12 grand tourer. | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
New member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 50 Registered: 3-2002 |
How about the 456, and another 328/QV for 2 seating fun? Seems to a great combination! Is it possible to go with a 95 456 and a early 355 GTB for around the same as a 98-99 355GTS/456GTA? | ||
| Peter K. (Bubba)
Junior Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 63 Registered: 5-2002 |
Really depends on what you want to do. Why not try a 4-seater Ferrari for a change. I think the 456 will be nice and practical. Not that Ferraris are meant to be practical. I have a Mondial,so 4 people (if 2 can fit in the back) can enjoy the Ferrari at the same time, which I think is rather good. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 781 Registered: 8-2001 |
456 if you need the back seats and the trunk. Or if you want to stick with a V12. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1043 Registered: 9-2001 |
Darren, you can't do everything with a 355 that you can do with a 456. Try carrying three passengers with you in a 355. Try listening to the wonderful wail of a V12 in the 355. True, the Dino is holding its value better and would be more fun on the track, but it's still a Dino. Go for the Ferrari V12. | ||
| bruno bandaras (Originalsinner)
Junior Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 223 Registered: 5-2002 |
I like the 355 for a lot of reasons over the 456. IMHO it looks better too. | ||
| Daren L Adkins (Schumi)
New member Username: Schumi Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2002 |
IMHO having driven a 355 at speed, given the certain depreciation of 456s, and that you can everything with a 355 you can with a 456, and then some, there is no comparison - get the 355. | ||
| Lung (Lung7707)
Junior Member Username: Lung7707 Post Number: 69 Registered: 1-2002 |
I have gone thru a 328GTS and now a Testa. I am getting ichy and am thinking of "upgrading". Both these cars appeal to me. The 355 - easy to handle, on the road feel. The 456 - probably Ferrari's greatest grand tourer, comfort, easy rider. Comments please...which way to go? And guys, I can only afford one or the other. |