| Author | Message | ||
| IVAN FROSTY (Frosty456)
New member Username: Frosty456 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2002 |
Has anyone watched BBC TOP GEAR which features the 575M and the Vanquish? I even recorded it on video VHS Jeremy clarkson and Damon Hill were driving the cars but the way the 575 was squating at acceleration .......was so great!!! | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2001 |
Manu, the GT2 is an awesome car! Its straight line performance is MESMERIZING, unlike anything else.I think that other than a Mclaren F1 there's no faster car. I bought it because I wanted a great trackday car which I could also use on the street. Now my needs are different, since I've decided to do some racing next season (haven't decided in what category) I won't be doing trackdays anymore. That's why I'm thinking of selling my GT2. Compared to a 550 the GT2 is considerably faster, more agile, has quicker responses and more grip. Although it's by no means an uncomfortable car(I was surprised at how refined it can be) it's nowhere near as luxurious and cossetting as the Maranello. Compared to the Modena the performance gap feels even bigger, because the GT2 has an incredible acceleration even in high gears(it gives you a real kick in the butt even in 6th), where the 360 has little torque (it's all relative :-) ) and relies on high revs to deliver its performance. The GT2 has superior brakes, has more grip and even less roll.The only area where I would give a slight edge to the 360 is in steering feel, and , of course sound. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2002 |
Luigi.... Its a vague question in many ways but: Just how fast IS your GT2 - I don't know too much about this car and have only seen one once in Central London - forget about driving it..... What are it's strengths are where does it not deliver what you're looking for.... How does it line up against the 550 and 360, both dynamically and as an experience You own one VERY VERY capable car... Is it 7.42mins around the 'ring..... bloody hell. What are the ceramic brakes like..... Manu | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2001 |
Manu, you have a point here! Details make a huge difference in this type of cars. I too agree that muting the 550's V12 so much was a big mistake by Ferrari. Still I would've loved it to be 150 kg lighter. :-) My scrutinee level with the 550 is very high because I really wanted to love the car, and I was certain I was going to get it, but it turned out not being exactly what I was looking for, so after a while I ordered a 996 GT2. Right now I am considering selling my GT2 for a 360 Modena 6 spd. to which I would add the Fiorano suspension pack, remove the cats and add tubi exhaust.I'm waiting for the right deal(my first choice colour is black which is rare here in Switzerland/Italy). I will almost certainly order the successor to the 575, and that is why I am so sensitive as to what Ferrari should change to make it better. Last thing: I would never buy a Diablo, that's why I don't criticize it. :-) | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 53 Registered: 2-2002 |
I think everyone in this debate has a valid argument (Luigi - I've clearly got my facts confused somewhere). Ernesto, I get your point mate! Hey guys - I'm not MAD! I'm just passionate! Interestingly, I think car-phsycology has an important part to play in what people think are fun cars to drive. Point in fact is the Lamborghini Diablo: Its an almighty huge car which weighs in at close to 1700kg. Its quite an intimidating car - you can't see out the back and sliding it is something best left to Mr M. Schmacher. However because it's mid-engined and has a ridiculously VOCAL V12, we'll forgive it anything. The point I'm trying to make is.... ...Say Ferrari only fitted race buckets and harnesses to the 550. Suppose also it had, as standard, a really vocal, noisy V12 with a proper exhaust note, and some flashier split-rim alloys......These little details may not change the cars actual responses but I'm positive they'd make us FEEL as if we were driving a fundamentally more sporting car. And of course, it would then make passionate drivers like us think we were having more fun too... I honestly think its all in the details.... (For example, I think the biggest mistake Ferrari have made with the 550 is not given it a proper sound for its V12 - as standard, its too quiet). Changing things like this change our perceptions of what we're driving and hence our enjoyment factor. Do you agree.... | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2001 |
"The 360 modena has never won a handling test. The 550 won two years in a row - this IS in Autocar." Manu, what are you talking about??You mean that Autocar's September 99 issue with the Best Handling car contest where the 360 wins hands down and 550 places 6th does not exist? Furthermore this test was conducted with all the cars driven in the same day by the same drivers under the exact same conditions. Car magazine also put the 360 2nd in their track challenge(can't find issue so the name could be wrong) in 2000 behind a GT3 CS. Manu, don't be mad!In any case in a couple of years Ferrari will replace the 575 with a whole new model with an aluminum chassis, that car will be tighter nimbler weigh 1550 kg its V12 will have 540 very vocal ponies and it will look even better.We will both buy it and be very happy! :-) Do you listen Ferrari! | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 247 Registered: 2-2001 |
Manu, I agree that the 360 is MUCH more unforgiving at the limit. I have experienced this first hand at my first track events when I lost control of the rear end. Dont get me wrong, I love the 550 and would love to own one some day. But, to me, it just doesnt FEEL like a fun car. And, again like you said, this is a very subjective term! Regarding the UK Magazines, I subscribe to all of them because I like reading their articles and have excellent photos. But as far a comparing cars, I find they are all somewhat biased toward English manufacturers. And, from what I have seen, their tests are anything but scientific, more opinionated. Also, it seems as if their tests rarely round up all the cars the same day, but rather test in different places and just patch it all up for the article. Maybe Im wrong... Ernesto | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ernesto, From my brief experiences, the 360 delivers tighter, more precise responses than the 550 too! But crucially I don't define FUN driving like this. I think a fun car is one which flatters the driver - which fills the driver with confidence and forgives his mistakes. The 360 is more unforgiving on the limit and on our tighter Euro roads, THIS is where the 550 makes for a superior drivers car. Ultimately this progressive on-limit behaviour is what makes a car like the F40 a better drivers car than say, a Porsche GT1, for example - despite the fact that the GT1 delivers ultimate super-tight responses beyond the F40. All the same - each to their own! I'm interested to hear why you think that about the UK car magazines. I have always believed that our UK motoring journalism is of the highest order. Excellent writing, testing and photography. And the real-world tight twisty roads that spawned sports cars... Partial and biased.... How come....... . | ||
| Jason (Jason)
New member Username: Jason Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2001 |
I figured i'd add another comparo article to the debate. http://www.cuoresportivo.org/press/articles/2001/a006i0101p056e01.shtml | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Junior Member Username: T88power Post Number: 246 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, I have driven both, and I feel the 360 is WAY WAY more fun in street/city driving. Definitely more tossable and tight. You say you cant feel the extra weight, but I can definitely feel it the few times I have driven one (but never on the track). Perhaps this changes on the track, but from what I have experienced first hand so far is that the 550 is a more mature GT while the 360 is a smaller, lighter more fun car. Either way, I never put too much weight on Euro Car magazines tests.. especially UK ones. They are so biased and unpartial its not even funny... Ernesto | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 48 Registered: 2-2002 |
Last Autocar supercar test: Diablo 6.0 vs Maranello vs Vanquish vs 996TT The Maranello was declared the BEST FERRARI at the moment. Car Magazine Buyers Guide.... The 550 Maranello is the 'most fun of the modern Ferraris to drive.' Evo Magazine: Last Supercar Test: 550 came third after Diablo and Pagani. The Modena came 5th out of 6 beating the Viper. Auto Italia: Testing the 550 Barchetta. "Any 550 whether open top or not is MORE FUN to drive than a 360." You can disregard my personal opinion if you want...but what abou the opinions of seasoned motoring hacks who drive fab performance cars every day. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2002 |
The 360 modena has never won a handling test. The 550 won two years in a row - this IS in Autocar. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 46 Registered: 2-2002 |
Make that Car Magazine | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 45 Registered: 2-2002 |
The Maranello IS a huge car.... But what makes it such a great drive is the way it shrinks around you. I changes direction astonishingly quickly... In autocar it came a very respectable 16th in the 100 Greatest Drivers Cars Poll. The Modena came a much lower... 60's or 80's I think. In fact Tim, my friend, corners is exactly where the 550 does NOT show its weight. This is where it EXCELS. If you don't believe me then DRIVE IT! | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2001 |
"However the 550 is even more fun to drive. (this isn't just my opinion but most of the motoring press - at least in the UK)." Autocar: Best driver's car September 99 360 Modena placed 1st with 90 points 550 placed 6th with 83 points "Ultimately I find it non-sensical for people to find weight such a big deal. For 99% of drivers, 0-100mph in 9.9 or 9.0 seconds is going to make no difference." Totally agree, I'm not talking about straight line performance,I'm talking about a car that feels nimble and agile, a car that can be really pushed on tortuous B-roads.No car weighing 1700 kg is nimble and agile, there is just too much mass. I don't mean to bash the 550, it is the world's best Grand Tourer, and looks awesome.I just expect something a little bit different from Ferrari's flagship V12 two seater. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 510 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think the reason the the 575 lap times are better than those of the F40 is because i thought ferrar changed fiorano. There is no way this car can be as fast as an F40 on the track even with 14 years of development. The F40 was built more for track use than street use. Also, who cares about traction control, that would just slow it down. the 550, and probably the 575MM, is such a big car that ive been told it is scary to throw around. Its mass realy shows itself in corners. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1949 Registered: 2-2001 |
I kind of like the stop gap cars, the QV is the most obvious stop gap I can think of. They're usually the most refined of a series which is a good thing, but not always the pure intention of the design which I guess could be bad. Ferraris all have such distinct personalities that unlike other cars I don't really care which are the newest or highest performing, I don't know, they're all special though in their own sense. Which is why when I look at that I don't really look at them in the greater context. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 553 Registered: 12-2001 |
Very pretty car. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 557 Registered: 8-2001 |
My next new Ferrari would most likely be a V12 car. The 575MM is a nice car but it's a stop-gap model before the all new model arrives (whenever that will be). On the other hand, I'm still interested in the 360 successor and might hold out until both new cars are announced. | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
New member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well, then it well have to be a really special car to give it all up, LOL | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Junior Member Username: Doody Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2001 |
robert - then for the third one you have to wait until you're REALLY OLD, 'cuz, well, y'know what the third one's gonna cost ya ;-) doody. | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
New member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2002 |
This car is hot, I have a 360 and this will be my next ferrari, although I have to wait untill I am done haveing children, because I gave my left nut for the 360, and the 575 would require the right | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2002 |
In respect of copyright law, I am instructed to add that the pictures I posted are the property of: www.barchetta.cc Apologies for any copyright violation. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 155 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think the 550 has a more aggressive look. I hate the silver headlight molding, looks like an aftermarket Honda accessory. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 43 Registered: 2-2002 |
whoa whoa..... Did you say the 550 is not a true sports car..... Luigi I strongly, strongly disagree..... This is the car of CHOICE for most of the F1 grid. If you define excitement by outright grip and acceleration then yes the 360 is superior. However the 550 is even more fun to drive. (this isn't just my opinion but most of the motoring press - at least in the UK). It thrashes Porsches as a supercar EXPERIENCE and only the Lambo delivers a bigger thrill. Ultimately I find it non-sensical for people to find weight such a big deal. For 99% of drivers, 0-100mph in 9.9 or 9.0 seconds is going to make no difference. Either way, the 550 is far more special than a 360 Modena. Rarer, prettier, gruntier, and with a V12 engine.....and a true performance flagship. If you still think the 550 is not performance orientated enough, just remember its faster than the 360 around the most demanding track in the world: The Nurburging - And that's good enough for me. | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2001 |
I have to agree with Tenney. Unless F1 tranny is top priority I would not go for a 575. I actually like the front end of the 550 better. Interior is very nice though. For me the point is WEIGHT. The 2 seater V12 model in the Ferrari lineup should be the sportiest version of normal production. It has always been like that until the introduction of the 550. The 456 and its successor should be the Grand Tourers of the lineup(with the added practicality of the rear seats). The V12 2 seater should be able to compete with a Murcielago , Pagani Zonda or a GT2 for driver excitement and involvement. Today the real sports car in the Ferrari lineup is the 360, and both 456 and 550/575 are Grand Tourers with great dynamic abilities (esp. 550/575) but no real sport cars. I would love to see the next V12 2 seater weighing no more than 1500/1550 kg, with a slightly stiffer, sportier suspension set up(allowed by less weight of the car) and a more vocal engine.In short I would love to see the V12 2 seater regain its crown.It is possible! | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2002 |
Guys...Its all on the video. Around Fiorano it sets (in front of your very eyes) a 1.31.50 laptime. The F40 laps Fiorano in 1.31. and the F50 in 1.28. Why so quick....... Traction control, 6 speed box, 7 years worth of aerodynamic progress (over the F40), more linear power delivery assisting traction out of slower corners, the active damping and suspension system - (this is what really does it.) (the 575 has active ride height selection) There is no room for debate, or anything to 'believe' - just watch the video guys. This is one stonkingly fast car. Remember the 550 has gone 'round the Nurburgring in 8mins4secs which is quicker than the 360, the 911TT, and the Lamborghini Diablo SV. The F40 is a race car from 1988. The 575 is a GT from 2002.... Thats 14 years of supercar progress. Guys, remember, it may be as fast the F40 around Fiorano, in other places, its likely to be slower. BTW: The skyhook suspension is super sophisticated.. just because Maserati have been given this technology, it shouldn't be undervalued. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 506 Registered: 6-2001 |
Skyhook suspension? what is this, a maserati? Bret, i too find it hard to believe this thing is as fast as an F40 on the track. The F40 is pretty much a race car and this thing weighs 2 tons, it cant handle like the 1100kg (2500lb) F40. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1934 Registered: 2-2001 |
How can this thing keep up with the F40? It has basically the same HP and torque, and it ways a 1000lbs more. I find it very hard to belive, even with a 6spd over a 5spd, that it could keep up with an F40 in a race, forget about F50 territory. And if you were to just slightly breath on either an F40 or F50 it would be unGodly and totally sodomize nearly everything on the road. Kind of on this note, they had that video of the Japanese guy with the F40 doing 199 on TV today, what a crack addict. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2002 |
Guys, I think the new car ought to be driven before we reach definitive judgements. It laps Fiorano in the same time as the F40 (1.31) and I've read somewhere else on this forum that it has had a very serious boost to midrange grunt. The F1 box is reported to be the fastest shifting in the world whilst the new damping system, uprated brakes, and sky-hook suspension mean that its handling is improved over its predecessor (which is widely regarded as one of the best handling cars of all time......) Cat-replacements, a proper exhaust, and some air filters and we're talking about an F50-bashing 540bhp.....all in taking place in that, luxurious, great new interior. Anyone agree.... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1116 Registered: 2-2001 |
Nice, I just wish they painted ALL the headlight molding body color | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 1930 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think the 550 was a much more classic Ferrari design, especially the interior. I think I too would take a nice $150K 550 over the 575 and spend the rest to buy a 355. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2001 |
Compared to the car it replaces, we're looking at a fairly similar design, 29 more hp, 15 more lbs. ft, an extra 40 kgs of weight (over 1000 lbs more than an F40, btw), and the platform will be replaced in a couple of years. It's a cool car, to be sure. Although unless an F1 tranny is required, 150K or so for a nice 550 sounds like a pretty decent deal. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2001 |
woowha we all did that at the same time! | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2001 |
Just based on these pictures here is what I see different: head lights and head light cleaner front air damn side markers are smaller and moved behind wheel well (euro?) rims have changed window trim? (I don't know what but something just looks different about the window trim) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 503 Registered: 6-2001 |
Front air dam, wheels and the headlights. the ferrari webpage has alot of info on it, including a cool split screen video of it on one half and the 550 on the other half running around fiorano. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2002 |
New headlamps and surrounds, huge new grill with new tidier air intakes, new full-length front splitter, new (lightened) alloys, and I think it has new tailpipes too..... Most of the work has gone into what's under the skin... Think about it this way.... this car only gives away 5bhp to an F50 and has more grunt than an F40!!! | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Junior Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 170 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whats the exterior differences between the 550 and 575? | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here's some more   | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
New member Username: Manu Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2002 |
Just two more pictures of this fab new Ferrari. The black car looks LOVELY. I really really want one of these. Maranello Sales, in Egham,UK say that if I write them an expression of interest RIGHT NOW, I'll get the car in about 2 and half years. Well at least that gives me 2 years to make the money...LOL Who's getting one......   |