| Author |
Message |
jim galli (Galli)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 9:44 am: | |
Is this guy going to ever make up his mind????? |
Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 8:46 am: | |
Peter,
The carfax report shows three inspections since the current owner titled the car in February of 1995. It failed emissions once, in 2000, and passed on the third attempt after Doug adjusted the mixture. It also passed its most recent test, which was last month. I�m pretty sure that all of
these inspections were conducted at private inspection facilities in New York state, which accounts for the �look the other way� attitude regarding the missing cat. I�ll be registering the car in NJ, and I know for certain it would fail at a state inspection station. They have gotten tougher and tougher over the years. They use a mirror to check for the cat. They even failed my '81 911 a few years ago because the rubber seal on the original gas cap had lost its integrity, and was not registering the correct amount of vacum pressure!
Anyway, all this is just another reason to make sure that the original exhaust with all components/hardware is intact, whether I decide to keep the Borla on and find a �cooperative� inspection facility in my area, or put the stock system back on the car. I spoke with Algar yesterday and they told me that some of the stock exhaust components are no longer available, and very difficult to find.
The PPI is next week at Ferrari of Long Island. Wish me luck. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 6:33 pm: | |
Leo, the reason why I find it surprising that the cat is off, is the fact that the majority of large metropolitan areas and even states require yearly emissions testing. Without the cat, don't even dream of passing! I can imagine the previous owner left it off, because on testing day he installs it, passes (I doubt it), goes back home and puts the Borla back on. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 2:51 pm: | |
I'd agree that the (tangible) positive attributes of "B"s (rarity, stiffness, looks) help reduce the difference, but, like the crazy resale red factor and regardless of the (il)logic, IMHO "S"s get a slight premium over "B"s (and I would use it against the seller even if I actually preferred a "B").
I share your "fair" price sentiment as being realistic (and really, life is too short to quibble over a few $K -- especially when it means enjoying a 328!). |
Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 12:51 pm: | |
Don�t worry Steve, you�re not insulting me. I want to pay the least amount of money as possible, but I also want to be fair. I was implying that the car is worth more due to its rarity. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 12:26 pm: | |
Although I personally like the extra color a "B" roof adds to the visual appearance and the extra chassis stiffness, I had already included a small penalty for the "B" not "S" factor in my (insulting?) suggestion. |
Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 12:07 pm: | |
The car needs a toolkit ($250), and the rear trunk cover is worn and the zipper is fried ($400 - $500 including new seal). I think the dealership should be able to answer the fuel question. What about the fact that its a red/tan GTB (they don�t grow on Ferrari trees the way GTSs do) with very good int/ext cosmetics? What about the fact that its endorsed and being offered by Doug Pirrone, who has a great reputation and is known for offering good cars? Also, the price is not out of line with current prices, assuming the PPI doesn�t turn up anything. I�ve seen 86-87s with 45k miles going for $50,000. And couldn�t I sell the Borla and aftermarket rims to make up some of the cost of getting the cat back on? |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 11:37 am: | |
My '86 328 is a non cat euro model. The exhaust smell is distinctly different from a car equipped with a cat converter which may be the "fuel smell" talked about.
Since I have just purchased my 328 in the last six months(looking all over the country for it), this car priced at $45.9K would have been a good deal if it checks out. (Probably offer $40K considering the timing belt situation) |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 10:36 am: | |
Leonardo, all (soapbox on, since you asked -- and with apologies to all those with the difficult task of selling cars for a living),
I'd offer $38K~$39K and agree to go a bit more if the PPI comes back perfect (which it won't) -- and, in a way, it already hasn't since even if you get the stock exhaust parts there's still the labor cost (and other minor parts costs -- e.g., gaskets) to remount/restore. I will concede that 328s are a popular model these days (because 348s are still a step up in price/complexity and 308s, even QVs, are getting a bit old so even unused, pampered ones need some extra TLC) so this adds an (irrational?) artificial premium to the 328 prices. Still, there are too many reasons IMHO why this isn't a low-$40Ks car:
1) it's an '86 (not an '89) so it's already had its 15th birthday and is one of the oldest 328s out there.
2) it's half way thru the major service interval (-$2K~$3K).
3) the exhaust is modified -- even if ALL the major stock exhaust parts are present (and often a lot of rather expensive special hardware bits are not) I'd still whack at least $1K for this -- more if parts (large or small) are missing.
4) regardless of what the seller says, I think you could (and should) reasonably consider the "fuel smell" (if it's not coming just out of the tailpipes) as a problem that could easily eat up $2~3K in your offer.
Two other points to consider:
5) you don't mention ext/int colors -- so anything other than resale red/tan (and maybe red/black) is a hit from the $38~39K. Don't kill the messenger! -- I like many other alternative colors, but the irrational non-red thing is a real factor to consider in price. A small penalty for the good alternatives (nero, grigio, giallo, serra blue, etc.), but something more significant for the others.
6) Make sure you get the stock lug bolts (and wheel centers) if the aftermarket rims on the car use something else -- a set of 20 won't be cheap.
Even though the seller might (easily) find someone to pay $42~43K in today's hot 328 market, I think you could do better value-wise. Hell, clyde would think anything over $30K is a gift for the seller.
(soap box off) |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 8:51 am: | |
Leonardo, I'm going to put my 2 cents in here. I don't see what the lack of cats on the car has to do with a fuel odor coming from the engine comp. But be sure you get those cats or cat which ever the case mat be. They are very expensive to replace if you ever need them. |
Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 7:34 am: | |
Anthony/Peter,
Unfortunately I don�t have paper invoices for the 1500k and 7500k services, only the receipt stubs in the service and warranty book. Ferrari of Great Neck also performed recalls 143 and 144.
And yes, this is the car with the Borla. I saw the original exhaust (and rims) on Saturday. Evereything was packed in a box so I couldn�t quite confirm that the cat was there, but I did see the muffler. Doug Pirrone (the broker) has told me that the cat is off. He says that accounts for the faint fuel odor coming from the engine bay. (Peter, why do you think that�s surprising?) I�m going to take the original exhaust to Ferrari of Long Island when I do the PPI, and have them confirm that everything that should be there is. Right now I have to make an offer on the car. I want to agree to a price before the PPI, and make sure that that price is contingent on the PPI. I know what I want to offer, but what do you guys think? The asking price is $45,900. |
Anthony Calia (Ciccio)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 12:42 am: | |
LEO JUST CURIOUS, WHEN THE CAR WAS SERVICED AT 7,500K ON 8/19/89 IN GREAT NECK WHO DID THE SERVICE, CHECK THE RECEIPT AND SEE IF NAMES THE MECHANIC WHO WORKED ON THE CAR, ANTHONY |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 7:21 pm: | |
Leo, there's been seven years between the two timing belt changes... it was more than due for it (with a car that isn't driven frequently, timing plays the major role. 4 years max on timing belts, sooner if again it isn't driven that much). At least it was done a couple of years ago... but you do the math!
Yes it is odd that mixtures have been adjusted so frequently, FI is normally forever. But don't take my word for it, I'm a carbureted man! Still though, it doesn't sound right.
There have been so many postings lately that I can't remember if this is the same car that has a Borla on it, but the original comes with the sale of the car (?). Surprising that the cat is off, does it too come with the car (like the muffler)? |
Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 7:51 am: | |
Here is a run down of the service history:
Birth Date - 11/85
Delivery Date to Foreign Cars Italia - 1/28/86
First owner was Richard E. Watkins
1500k Service (FCI) - 10/8/86
7500k Service (Ferrari of Great Neck) - 8/19/89
15k (14,134 actual) Service (FGN) - 5/20/91
Complete major with timing belts and valve adjustment.
15,550k Auto Sport Designs (Mineola, NY) - 9/15/95
New water pump. Car was running rough; new distributor caps, rotors, and brushes.
17,563k Auto Sport - 10/28/97
New clutch, new front rotors and pads, new Comp T/As, oil leak from distributor seal detected, repair left until major. Engine would not return to idle, occasional stall, slight misfire. Frequency valve wiring repaired, fuel/ignition systems checked, mixture/idle adjusted.
18,724k Auto Sport - 11/3/98
Car towed in because it would start but not rev out. Fuel injection control relay burned out from short in oxygen sensor heating element. Relay/sensor replaced. Full service with timing belts, air intake box replaced, inner/outer distributor seals and worn contacts replaced.
20,345 Ferrari of Long Island - 10/29/99
New battery
20,807 Berlinetta Motors - 2/25/00
Oil/filter, brake fluid, mixture adjusted to pass inspection
22,165 Berlinetta Motors - 3/28/01
Oil/filter, replaced power door lock solenoid, reset CO mixture.
There seems to be a lot of mixture adjusting going on to pass inspection or otherwise. Does this have anything to do with the absence of the cat as well as the Borla? Also, this is the first car out of at least six that has had two timing belt changes. The record is pretty complete and regular. What do you guys think? |
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