| Author |
Message |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2438
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 9:39 am: | |
Edward,
I saw it with my own eyes. The bearings were running bad and were ready to fail on my car. I still have the parts if I remember correctly.
On the last 30K service the belt had a total of 1 inch play when pulled to one side. YOu could hear it slapping when the engine was running.
I am not a mechanic so all I can tell you is whyat I have seen and heard and held in my hands.
If your car was good when you performed the service great, be thankful, better than dealing wiht a new engine.
Frank,
if the engine is only $ 15K great. I would do the same. More power to us. It wil still end up being a $20K plus job. Just getting the engine in and out will cost you that much. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 350
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 9:21 pm: | |
Ed:
Sounds like a good side business to me. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1590
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 6:52 pm: | |
Thesr tensioner failure reports are ridiculous. Ferrari should supply a tensioner that would last a lifetime. I service all makes of cars with tensioner bearings and it is EXTREMELY rare to ever see one bad on ANY car. These things can be, and are made to be able to withstand over a half million miles of driving with no problems. If I owned a car that had rapid failures such as that then I would have my own made and not rely on the Ferrari outsourced junk. I had some made for mine and all the other belt systems that I sold and are made of some Quality stuff and it ain't no rocket science to making them. Any machine shop can do it. It is absolutely insane to have to spend that much money so often for a problem with a solution. In reality there is very little tension on the idler bearing as the belt does not pull from that direction. If an Alternator or water pump bearing can last for years then a belt bearing should be a no brainer!!! |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1069
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 3:01 pm: | |
I am not knocking miller but I called them about a car and they said they would email pics - never did, called them again to remind them - never got them. went there a few weeks ago and had to wait while the guy was showing kids around the showroom etc. I have no problem with this, they were probably kids of a good customer, but I got tired of waiting and left. They did this knowing I own a Ferrari and was interested enough in another one to call twice and show up there. In the end no big deal just weird. |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1257
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:49 pm: | |
There are two guys at miller i really like, the maserati salesman Baily and one of the ferrari guys Werner. I go up there and talk to them about ferraris and other cars for a long time a couple times a month. Periodically they have somethng rare or interesting in the shop they take me back to see. I dont know much abuot the service dept but i have heard from people who were less than satisfied. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1094
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:35 pm: | |
Martin, no the $15k is for a complete engine including block, heads, fuel injection system, everything. Its new still in the crate from the factory. Call Ted at 770.493.8852 |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1068
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:31 pm: | |
Arnaldo in defense of Chris I think he is a little gun shy having had his 355 suffer such a valve issue |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 375
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:29 pm: | |
Martin, I agree with Frank, and I don't think it would cost you $10K to put a new engine back into a car, if it does, you better get a serious and honest mechanic because that is simply ridiculous. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 374
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:23 pm: | |
Ok Cmparrf40, since you insist. Not only were the belts as new, the tensioner bearings, gaskets (no leaks before, none after), most hoses, ignition wires, valve settings, etc, etc. I am not saying that you should not do it, specially after so many years without a point of reference (not knowing how the car has been treated or taken care of), but facts can't be denied. Specially the fact that most Ferraris are as tough as they come, dealers and mechanics would love to make you fear otherwise. In addition to making you feel that paying more for the same, or less, is certainly justified for such a prestigious marque, where only the best can touch them. A bunch of baloney if you ask me, but then, nobody has, oh well. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2423
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 9:25 am: | |
Frank,
that should just be the base of the engine. By the time that you took things off the old and put it on the new you may be at 25K again in labor and extra parts you will need.
As for the belts, people I can not say it enough. It is likely not the belt that fails, it is the tensioners that do fail at that use. The service I just did on the 348TS we have in stock had 1 inch play, because the pulleys and tensioners have been worn and their bearings started to fail. It is NOT the belt that is your problem, but the tensioners. The belt is a few bucks, so you replace that every time you get the engine out. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1090
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 9:00 am: | |
You can get a new in the crate 348 engine for $15,000.00 from T.Rutlands. So if my engine was damaged to the tune of $20k, I would replace the engine rather than repair it. |
Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member
Username: Cmparrf40
Post Number: 334
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 11:27 pm: | |
WE have covered this a lot on here, while the belt is part of the belt service, the other part is the tensioner bearings. These are the weak link, they seize, cause the belt to fail,you write a $20,000 check for valves.
5 years, 15K miles you can not go wrong.......... |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 10:37 pm: | |
I forgot to add... estimated repair on the
driver's side non-functioning motorized belt
(hate those damn things) was $ 1700!! Needless
to say, I won't be using it and will just use
the manual position.
Arnaldo, I concur, I think the manual is right,
but now I have the belt in my hands to back it
up. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 373
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 8:16 pm: | |
I had the same experience with my 12 year old timing belts. As good as new! I would say you are good for more than 5 years depending on the mileage you will put on the car next. Remember, the owner's manual suggest replacement at about 52K mi. and, in spite what most people want to believe, I think the book is right. |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 11
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 17, 2002 - 7:38 pm: | |
Finally - after giving her up for 10 days,
I picker her up today. Looking and feeling
like brand new!
Miller Motorcars in Greenwich, CT did the
service, and I have to say that they are
the BEST! Jack and Tom went over the service
history and found that a factory mod was never
completed. Jack then search throughout the US
for the parts and the jig to install them. Took
a couple of days extra, but the modification
was accomplished.
The infamous timing belt looked brand new,
but now I can sleep nights. After 13000 miles
and 12 years, the original belt was perfect. . .
but it was worth the cost of changing.
Not only did they take care of the service,
they went over all of the systems, including
the brakes, A/C, clutch, tires, etc. and let
me know any potential issues that should be
addressed. (New PZeros will be next).
After all of this, they cleaned
and waxed her. Fantastic!
Yes, it was costly. But she looks and feels
new and barring any unforseen circumstances,
I'm good to go for another 5 years.
I can't say enough about this organization
and these guys. Miller Motorcars is tops in
my book. Thanks guys.
Just thought I would share the experience.
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