| Author | Message | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 608 Registered: 12-2001 |
I wouldn't want a car that I couldn't work on myself either. That would take all of the fun out of it. I would rather be on the road and know what is wrong and have a chance at fixing it vs. on the road and have no idea what is wrong with the car and have to trust someone else to fix it. I agree it would be boring. If I just got in my Ferrari and drove it like a BMW (not that I don't like the BMW) but it wouldn't be as much fun. I think knowing the idiosyncrasies of your car is what makes it Great. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 93 Registered: 7-2001 |
HI Willis not sure the age. Still under warranty when I talked with this person. Dealer was doing a good job of handling the issues, but I was very suprised to hear it and also that another person in the same group had the same problem with the cam vario. I feel the 360 is a good car and all of us can find horror stories with any marque at any time | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 578 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hmmm...my 360's been very reliable so far (coming up on 1 year very soon). How does your friend drive his car, Dave L ? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 697 Registered: 9-2001 |
GM and Fiat did a stock trade a while back. GM now owns a lot of Fiat Auto stock. In fact, the new Alfa will be sold in select GM dealers starting in 2003 I believe. GM palns to buy controlling interest in Fiat at a later date. The Ferrari Group does not come with that though. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 92 Registered: 7-2001 |
There is simply no excuse for the modern cars not to be reliable as an NSX. How the builders make them isnt up to us and the fact that you can tinker with an old is just that. Its old and designed in a way that required "tinkering". The point of the NSX is that it did as someone stated earlier- it forced others to raise their quality standards. That is what we are paying for. As far as reliability being boring- thats a new one on me. I like driving and not sitting on the side of the road. I have an aquaintence whose 360 left him on the side of the road with a clutch problem. Its been to the dealer more than in his garage. Its a US market car. The last time it was there the cam vario failed and the motor came out. He is not pleased with his very expensive car. Granted cars do break down new or old. Reliability is a strong selling point new or used. | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2001 |
oh well, i still don't get the image upload thing when i post. hmm... | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2001 |
Yes, Peter - it does feel great to know that if your car runs great it's to your own credit and if it fails it's your own fault. Of course you and I have much simpler cars than that produced today. I wouldn't want a brand new car suddenly quiting on me because with all the complex systems these days I'd never be able to figure out what the problem is. On the old cars there is a much smaller list of possibilities to explore, ha! But I guess that's part of my point in that other thread about what we'd like to see in new automobiles: I'd like to be able to buy a new car that is raw enough, simple enough, for an enthusiast to tinker with at home. \image -Rich | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1686 Registered: 12-2000 |
Very true Richard! As much as I enjoy the car now, I certainly had a terrific time tearing apart the motor before. To know, that the last time a pair of hands were in here, was back at the factory! I felt honored...  | ||
| Vincent Canipelli (F308vc)
New member Username: F308vc Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2002 |
In the mid-60's, Ford had a done deal to buy FERRARI and Enzo backed out at his last chance. That's when Henry swore to Enzo that he would build a car to take away the sportscar WorldChampionship from Ferrari. Thus the birth of the GT40!!! | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2001 |
As mentioned, Ferrari is part of Fiat Spa and not Fiat Auto - but even the rumors of GM buying more Fiat Auto are old and I haven't heard anything new in quite a while. Is the reliablility of the expensive modern Ferrari really that bad? I can't believe some of you wish it were more like an Acura! To my eyes they certainly look to be better built than any other car I've seen (excluding rolls royce, etc.). I've haven't read too many complaints here about problems with new Ferrari models either. With cars and bikes, reliable often equals boring. Italians favor soul over reliability. Sure, owning a Ducati is a pain compared to a Honda that you never have to adjust the valves on. And sure, the low mileage between Ferrari recommended service intervals is a pain compared to a Japanese car. But that "pain" is part of the process, part of the enjoyment of these machines. Well, I guess it's not much enjoyment if you just drop the car off at the dealer, but if you enjoy having a wrench in your hand it's nice that Ferrari at least gives you something to do to the car. I guess that's why I prefer old cars over new - they give you something to do nearly every day, ha! | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Junior Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 185 Registered: 9-2001 |
The Jaguar marque have never been as exclusive as Ferrari. The are more akin to BMW and thus, they have had their product line expanded to compete in that marketplace. I couldn't be happier with my Ford owned Vanden Plas, it actually runs without electrical gremlins - something that could not have been said about the previous models. There would be no reason to take Ferrari downmarket...think of Aston Martin, not Jaguar. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2002 |
GM left Lotus alone while they owned it, which is pretty amazing. I wouldn't use that as proof that a new owner will leave Ferrari alone, though. I worked with Ford, GM and Chrysler for many years and there are many dim bulbs there, expecially at GM. Very, very few car company employees are car guys. They could care less whether they were selling cars or refrigerators. I vote for refrigerators for most of them. We'll be better off. Lotus has been a mess for years. My brother was their Communications Director in the US. He has many horror stories to share on them. Only Lotus could create a breakthrough design like the Elise and then not capitalize upon it. Yes, its rumored to be coming to the US. Five years too late. The Acura NSX is a great car. It provided a wake up call for Ferrari that brought us excellent vehicles like the 355 and the 360. If it weren't for fear of the NSX, ferrari's might not be as good as they are today. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
New member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2002 |
I am afraid of what happened to Jaguar with Ford owning it, happening to ferrari..I.E. Lower cost ferrari (around 70k for a new one?) V6 300hp that kind of stuff. What would happen to the exclusivity? I am hoping GM, ford or even cheverlet wouldnt try to make ferrari more profitable providing they ever own the business. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 123 Registered: 4-2001 |
I would never ever buy a Ferrari that Germans have had any input in. I think it's enough with that Boschstuff that always brake down in Italian cars. Ferrari is Ferrari and they build cars with high quality AND character. Basta! German cars are boring and the quality is an illusion. Speak to any shop that works with cars from both countries. What Germans can do is put the INTERIOR together and thats what the journalist (and many owners) refere to as good build quality. A Ferrari with McPherson, soft springs, soft bushings of low quality. You will never hear when all of your bushings are completely gone because of the soft suspension, bad steering and sound damping (Yes Sir, latest report from my shop on a 3000 miles Mercedes). Paddles replaced with stereo controls, boring interior a mega muffler with a 5" "Sportauspuff". Pininfarina design replaced with a gigantic wing due to bad aerodynamic design. That is what we can expect from a Ferrari build with BMW/Porsche input. That will definitely be the day Ferrari dies. And I would also buy every real Italian Ferrari I could get. That would be an investment. Ferrari is not a part of FIAT Auto and I'm very happy for that. Unfortunatelly Alfa is... Ciao Peter | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2001 |
Proton; that's right. I now remember that I read they may sell or *gasp* fold the company. They have major financial problems. Maybe Ferrari should buy them too? I agree the NSX is the 'best' exotic made today from a reliability standpoint. My brother in law has one and it's a true daily driver. I wish Ferrari WOULD be sold because a car costing 6 figures ought to have better quality control than they do. They just can't afford the testing that larger companies do so the first year models always seem to be Beta versions! | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 89 Registered: 7-2001 |
GM owned Lotus from 86-late 93. Current owners are Proton from Malaysia. Ford has recently attempted to buy Lotus from them and had no success. Thats too bad. They have a nice racing heritage and would make good owners based on their presence in Europe and the success of Aston and Jaguar. | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Junior Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 235 Registered: 10-2001 |
When did GM own Lotus? Right now I thought some Japanese company owned them. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 88 Registered: 7-2001 |
This is no big deal if Ferrari is sold. A very large and powerful company owns them now. So who cares what foreign conglomerate purchases them if it happens. We cant control what they do or how they run it. Aston and Jaguar have done well under Ford and the new Vanquish easily rivals the 550 in that class. GM would be no big deal, as a Lotus owner the cars got much better and more powerful and GM really changed very little of what Lotus did. GM owned them to protect the engineering secrets and projects that Lotus was working on for them. Lotus makes much more money as a consultancy than as a car builder. Ferrari would survive and perhaps even build a better car with a big change. No one builds an exotic better than Acura yet anyway. The NSX is the standard of quality and reliability we should expect from exotic auto makers who charge what they charge for these types of machines. I personally would welcome a change at Ferrari in terms of ownership and I feel its just a matter of time. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 328 Registered: 12-2001 |
true - I still remember the scene in Gumball rally! | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Junior Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 184 Registered: 9-2001 |
Nika, the deal with Ford owning Jaguar has been a good one for anyone that owns one of their vehicles...you can actually expect them to work day-to-day now. I speak from experience. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 65 Registered: 2-2002 |
If Ferrari had to be sold to someone - I'd prefer if it went to the Germans. (VAG group, BMW, Porsche). They LOVE their sports cars, (look at the number of tuning houses they have for Ferraris), they know how to build cars, they know how sports cars should behave... AND they buy more Ferraris than any country in the world (except the States). I think they'd respect the marque....unlike GM or Ford or some other corporate monolith. I personally think, they've done a fab job with the new Lambo. | ||
| Frederick Klorczyk (Fjk)
New member Username: Fjk Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2001 |
Look at Bentley and Rolls Royce...anything can happen given the right set of conditions. Can't imagine GM in F1 although Ford certainly supports it as does Chrysler : ). If that were to happen I would expect the pre-GM cars would become special - like Belgian Brownings and pre-Japanese Weatherbys. Rolls and Bentley are already touting "last of a line" models. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 595 Registered: 12-2001 |
I agree with Bill. I wouldn't be happy if this happened. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2002 |
It's a scary thought, but it probably won't happen exactly as you say. Like most companies, there is more than one FIAT. I'm not an expert on this, but I believe that what GM bought into is FIAT Auto. Ferrari is held by another FIAT entity. If I'm not mistaken, GM just passed on their opption to buy more shares in FIAT Auto. In any case, there is something going on. Many reports say that the Agnelli's are considering floating Ferrari in an IPO. I agree with Tom that you can't trust the Agnelli's, or anyone, when money is involved. Can you imagine the stockholder revolt over the $200+ million F1 budget if the company loses money and dividends are affected? Nothing lasts forever. I dread the day when Fiero owners start putting Ferrari shields on their front fenders... | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 325 Registered: 12-2001 |
LOL - so true - Juventus uniforms look like prison garb anyway!  | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 366 Registered: 9-2001 |
You sound like my wife's family - all lazio fans. Oh well I never said she was perfect. In fact her family owned a piece of Lazio when they were in Serie B in the early 80's. to bad they sold before things got good otherwise I would be a lazio fan and have a few more F-cars . I bet you like when they wear their all yellow jerseys. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 324 Registered: 12-2001 |
I once bought someone a Fiat share - (trades as an ADR I think in NY) I had it framed nicely - and presented to my beau at the time as his "piece of Ferrari"......as a shareholder - Agnelli has to answer to him now. So if we all bought shares and had majority control - a nice tender offer to pick up the rest and VIOLA - Ferrarichat members will own and run Ferrari. The last thing I want is a Ford-like Jaguar or a Camaro style Ferrari! BTW Tom - Juventus is best run in a different country since Lazio rules! (big grin) | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 254 Registered: 2-2001 |
No Way! I think the Italian population would revolt, overthrow the government, and execute the Agnellis for selling Ferrari to foreign hands. The whole country would be in a state of chaos. In all seriousness, I wouldn't on GM ever controlling Ferrari. Ernesto | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 362 Registered: 9-2001 |
Manu If you trust the Agnelli's your crazy - they are business people. Plus they recently sold part of Juventus to Koddafi of Libya. | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 488 Registered: 4-2001 |
The day that happens, I will go to my accountant, ask for about a million dollars and buy several 328s, TRs, boxers and a 288GTO. They are bound to be more than classics and worth a lot in the 5 years after people see the garbage that will be put into the new cars. | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Junior Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 214 Registered: 9-2001 |
I can see it now. A ferrari with the ONSTAR system & cupholders. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 63 Registered: 2-2002 |
Should also point out that the deal is irrevocable: GM will never get Ferrari.... the Agnelli family have made clear that Ferrari will remain in Italian controlled hands. I can imagine the first thing GM would have done, would have been to increase production... and probably started building a Porsche Boxster type rival....from their parts bin! I am thankful to God that this will never happen. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 62 Registered: 2-2002 |
GM has already made a deal with FIAT. This iwas some time ago too - I think it meant an eventual merger but for now, it is just supplier and platform sharing blah blah blah...... All the GM directors thought they would have company 550 Maranello's. They were wrong...... Ferrari and Maserati were excluded from the deal. (THANK GOD!) | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Junior Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2001 |
Might not be too far off, GM has options to take control of FIAT if they request it. Latest is that they will... | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
New member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2002 |
In addition to what changes, if any, an amercian company would make to this automobile legand, how would it affect the sales, production, soul, and heritage of what Ferrari stands for? |