| Author | Message | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1282 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ron, it's 12:30am, go to bed! | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
Junior Member Username: 328infoseeker Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rob, I leave for a day and my computer is a smoken when I open this thread. Hold out Pal its HUMP day Our second favorite day of the week. Your beer is waitin for you this weekend. Thanks for all your hard Work! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1273 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yes, that's one reason I've decided to have the fee optional. Only each person can make the decison. We have several full time Ferrari techs on here that should be on the payroll. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2001 |
I personally don't have an issue with a subscription charge, but as someone else mentioned down the thread, will we lose some of the "professionals" who offer free technical support? I can understand their generosity helping enthusiasts with their hobby on a free board, but having to pay an annual fee to offer that advice might limit qualified input. | ||
| Nika (Racernika)
Member Username: Racernika Post Number: 330 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rob - I fully understand the work you put into your site......I know how much time and effort I put into www.racerchicks.com and I don't have ANY advertisers. Just remember one thing - if it's a hobby enjoy it....but if it becomes a business make sure you don't lose that love for it. I won't make mine a business because I doubt I'd have as much fun. Nika | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2001 |
Rob, it's mighty noble of you to ignore the people who have or have not contributed on FC's behalf. If it were me, I'd go into the SQL tables and run an exception report, "Registered Users Failing to Pay". Then I'd post the report every 6 months. I'm sure glad the guy running this site has higher moral standards than myself! :-) | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 94 Registered: 7-2001 |
Bravo Rob!!  You offer is fair and the site is more than worth it. I will pay now if you like..DaveL | ||
| Michael (Mtabije)
Junior Member Username: Mtabije Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hey, I'm willing to schlep some of my Ferrari savings in order to give a little for Rob's efforts. If any of you have ever worked on maintaining a good site, constant up keep and improvements to the board, it does take time and effort. This is a second job to Rob. Kudos to you, Rob and kudos to all you fellas/ladies who make this site a very personal and community feel. Face it, there is perhaps no other place in this mighty big web we call the internet that has this unique feel. Heck, it's cheaper, more interactive, and helpful than all of my auto mag subscribtions combined! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1264 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok, I've had a full range of emotions over this thread and here's my recommended final decision to end it. All those in favor or in opposition chat away now or forever hold your mouse. 2nd week of June and December of each year I'll send a simple e-mail that says follow this link if you would like to send FerrariChat.com an optional fee. The link will take you to my online store where you can choose from a fee of $4.95, $9.95, or $19.95. I won't be looking at the names of these as all credit card transactions will be processed in batch. I or no one else will know who paid or who didn't. Only you and your conscience will make the decision. I can understand on either end of the spectrum. Some people are fundamentally against basement internet sites like this taking in money. Others will want to give back a little of the value they received. The site will be around if I get money or not. I promise that until a time in the far future when I could support myself off this site, all money will be put back in to it. Grazie, rob | ||
| Patrick Quinn (Pdq)
New member Username: Pdq Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2001 |
I'm with Boozy, lazy and greedy. I certainly wouldn't take on Rob's responsibilities in maintaining this site for free. Donation or fee it's up to you Rob. I'm in either way. | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2001 |
Man did this thread grow like a weed! My opinion is that charging a mandatory fee will cause a majority of current users to disappear and very few will sign up. I know when I go to a site that says you have a trial, then you gotta pay I go elsewhere. I think people would just find other forums or even make a new one. Obviously not as good as this one, but free is free. I suggest you keep the advertising going. Many of us here are capable of owning a Ferrari because we have been successful in business, maybe this is a good place for even some of the members to advertise their businesses. Don't you think members would rather buy from a member or sponsor even if it's not a car related product? I think the best course of action is to continue to pursue additional advertising and also start the volunteer donations with a specified ammount. I think something like your Rookie, Karting, etc. rating might help, maybe call users who donate "Supporters." If you don't get sufficient donations then you can always go the mandatory fee route, but if you jump into that first you may not like the results. Also, some members have suggested building it into a product, like an event or T-shirt. Not a bad idea. That's the only reason I pay for membership to BMWCCA and NASA: they add a $35 fee to track events if you're not a member and the membership is $35. Clever. I really don't see why some users have some moral opposition to the site making money, I am far too lazy and greedy to do the work Rob does without making money. I think I'm being realistic though to say that most people will not pay, far fewer new users will sign up, and sponsors will be less interested with less users. | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Junior Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 196 Registered: 9-2001 |
One other thing I forgot to ••••• about (and dig those red circles Rob...another nice touch). If you are going to make payment optional, limits those folks to 1 post per month. I would hate to think that the free bandwidth hogs were slowing us paying folks down. (Do it Rob...your little voice was right...go for it...setup the account...build it and they will come...) | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Junior Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 195 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rob and others. This is not about Rob's wife. (I think those were fighting words on another thread.) This is about recognizing that which is beneficial and paying for it. Many sites are moving to a fee structure at some level...even the ever popular free example of Yahoo. (Over 25 fee services and counting...ad revenue is not what it was in 99 folks.) As I see if Rob, you are paying the freight here, you deserve to be compensated. Was the domain name free? Is hosting free? Is bandwidth free? How about editing tools, time spent breaking up silly fights etc. If you want to pursue this part-time, full-time - it is not for us to ••••• about. I love what you have done here and I plan on paying your fee whatever it is when it comes about. As for others attacking Rob in any way for asking...grow up! If you had an inkling of what it takes to produce and maintain something of this magnitude you would understand... If Rob makes a buck? Good for him...he deserves it for having the idea that this is an unserved need in the marketplace. I think this is called capitalism 101. If wants to simply run this as non-profit and just collect enough to pay the bills, again, his call. And to even suggest that he has to open his books so that we can see how it is spent...well, that is just sad. Go for it Rob!!! | ||
| Dave Trbizan (Davidt)
New member Username: Davidt Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2002 |
Rob, I've only posted a few times, but I do enjoy the service and respect the time and effort you put forth. I suggest you place a paypal icon on the bottom of the homepage for the short term. This way those who wish to donate have this option. You may be surprised! If you decide in the future to charge an annual fee.....Well, sign me up. Dave | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 287 Registered: 3-2001 |
Rob, Here's my contribution to this thread... and my recommendation. A) Hire Ernie Bonilla as your VP Advertising Sales. Pay him zero salary and .001% commission because that is what you're making now. Put him on a plan, if he doesn't exceed his advertising banner quota within 3 months, fire him. Per his suggestion, I would recommend a quota of 2 new banners per month at $1000/month each. B) Magoo, FC is not a public company. Nor is this a club. Rob doesn't need to disclose all his expenses to us. The poor guy is "donating" 25 hours per week for OUR enjoyment. What's that worth? His wife? His job? Is this fair to Rob? This site is informative and a hell of a lot of fun. I'm not trying to knock Ernie or Magoo, you're both great guys. But this site has grown out of control... it's gone well beyond a hobby for Rob. It's worth a small annual fee. Here's an idea for those of you that don't like the "annual fee" idea. Which one of you wants to step up and help Rob out.... literally? Who wants to donate 10 hours per week to keep the site up? How about 5 volunteers at 5 hours each per week? You can hit the street and sell advertising... or work with the company who maintains the server. Don't have the time or inclination? Then be happy with a small annual fee. It's only fair and well worth it. | ||
| Andrew (Enzo250gto)
New member Username: Enzo250gto Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2002 |
TomD, You bring up a good point on my comments about traffic. I would just like to add one more thing which might help Rob. While this is a Ferrari site don't limit yourself to just car ads. I think most would agree they have other interest outside of Ferrari. For example, get a company like Tommy Bahama or retail store to put ads on here, sure its not Gucci but its still higher end clothing that people here might already own and some that might not know what it is. How many wear sunglasses when they drive or even when they aren't? See if www.apairofshades.com does advertising, they sell Revo, Maui Jim and other high end eye wear. I know there are some art galleries online, maybe do a joint ad with Ferrari of Scottsdale and an art gallery in the city as well (thats a long shot but this is brainstorming). I think its wonderful that you have 6 potential sponsors now, just remember starting out your going to get paid little from these people, but as the sight grows you will find others become interested and you can use this to your advantage and raise advertising prices. Just some thoughts, best of luck. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
New member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'm relatively new to this site, but in just a few weeks, I have learned a lot about my car from others' experiences. Far more than from my parts and workshop manuals. Indeed, questions that I e-mailed directly to some users were answered in a prompt and informative fashion. One person actually ran out to his car to check a part so as to offer correct advice. I was very impressed by that and am grateful for this Online Ferrari Community. Its value cannot really be reckoned in dollars per year. If we indeed share a passion for this marque then voluntary contributions would surely be forthcoming and would certainly help and probably completely finance the effort and expense to maintain this site. Barry Wolinsky | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 178 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rob, tell us where to send the money. You're doing a great job, and if this site becomes "for profit", then good for you! I don't think anyone here got their F-car by giving anything away. Personally, I hope to see the site flourish and if it is your desire I wish you the best in making it a full-time pursuit. | ||
| Jack Fried (Jack360)
New member Username: Jack360 Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob: I'd have no problem with a membership fee. I'd hope everyone who frequents this Board would contribute. | ||
| Richard T. (Tom) Gripe, MD. (Gripet)
New member Username: Gripet Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob: Don't give up the ship. This site is great! I have learned to much about my Ferraris and Porsche 996TT from this site and www.rennlist.com. Sometimes what to do or not to do. An enthusiast can learn a great deal without having to go through it or spend unnecessary cash. I'd be willing to pay an annual subscription for this knowledge as it saves me big time when I get around to modifying my ride. doc | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1263 Registered: 12-2000 |
I already do that. ;) But then again I lost all the profit by sending two shirts international and only charging $6 shipping, when it was really $25. Oh well, the shirts are free advertising, so I don't mind. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 402 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rob What about a $10 surcharge on Ferrari Chat shirts, hats etc. People may feel better about this | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 401 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rob this might be the best solution in the short run. Tell me where to send the money. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1262 Registered: 12-2000 |
I don't want to loose any users. Are there any users that would have a problem if I sent out a link twice a year where you could pay an optional small fee. Would the people paying fees not like this because it's optional? Would the people that think it's ethically and morally wrong to charge a fee not like this for some reason, even though no one will know? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1261 Registered: 12-2000 |
Most of the 20-30 hours was this latest upgrade. So that will trail off. However, there is still a bunch of things on my to do list. I'm starting to find out things are adding to my list faster than I can accomplish them. I could leave the board stagnant, but I'm driven to constantly add to it and make it better. It's my choice, no one else's, so don't take it as complaining, just the facts. Also, much of that time is just going through all the messages. There are several messages I'm personally interested in, but as the admin I feel it's my duty to keep a close eye on everything. The board actually has had server problems, but I usually catch it and call the techs before too many users notice. I guess now I'm getting the sense people are 50-50 on it and I will consider everything over the next several months. Right now I would say it will remain free for all users. I guess mainly because the people having the most problems are the long time good users of the board that have been here since the beginning. My feelings are a little hurt, but I understand the internet mindset because I've been part of it. However, your perspective is different when your on the other side of the wire. User contributions have been great on the threads, but besides a couple reviews people did on books or videos, I've never received any help when asking for it on research, trivia, or service procedures. I don't think the problem is just money. I think it's contributing above and beyond in general. We'll see starting next week when I start taking info for the "Parts and Service" section. That will really determine if it's a money problem or giving back in general. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1702 Registered: 12-2000 |
Rob: "...Also, I hope no one is offended and ticked off just because the question was asked. Save that for if I actually do it. ;) It would be several months anyway..." Thanks for bringing this subject up, so that it can be discussed now and not dropped onto us at the last minute... You're spending 20~30hrs a week on the site, but isn't the new provider supposed to do alot of the maintenance automatically? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 400 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think the ad problem is ebay gives you a few more eyeballs, including those that are on this site also . so even for free it is tough. don't most of the disenters pay for internet access. if that is the case they are already paying for access to this site. could this thread beat the where do you come from one?? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1260 Registered: 12-2000 |
Umm, fees have never been charged for the classified ads. I had planned on it, but even being free. The volume isn't very high at 70-80 ads at any one time. Do all the dissenters work for free? How do you pay your bills? Do you just freeload off everyone elses work? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 896 Registered: 2-2001 |
This site was voluntarily started. I did not ask that there be one. The fact that it is a free site and gives me something to do in my spare time and occasionally offers me a technical challenge keeps my interest. Why should I pay to offer the knowledge that I normally charge for? If the site has become a burden then perhaps it should be offered to someone that cost and time is no object. I am afraid that if a fee is charged then there may be a dozen or so who will continue and the site will die. Just look at the classified ads and what happened when a fee was charged, a big ZERO and this was for something that the customer stood to gain from and they wouldn't pay. This is my 2 cents worth. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1259 Registered: 12-2000 |
Wow, this is getting fun. For one, I don't get $1,000 per banner ad. Things are going well right now as I will announce two new sponsors later tonight. So we have 6 total sponsors, but it's a small percentage of that number above. This site's banner ad potential is somewhat limited because of the low volume comparatively. Click on banner rates would not be worth it. However, because of the demographics and niche market, the per volume rate can be higher than most. Also, I hope no one is offended and ticked off just because the question was asked. Save that for if I actually do it. ;) It would be several months anyway. Sites like Andrew's would become more popular as users switched. I can't please everyone, but I believe that even with a $10 subscription, we would still have a great site with many users. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 398 Registered: 9-2001 |
Even if there is a lot of views that never post are those the kind that are going to go to Nick's forza ferrari for a 10k rebuild? Or buy a 1956 owner's manual from ferrari lit. Does anyone have the latest "click thru" stats from popular websites. The stat that show what % converted into sales for advertisers? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 397 Registered: 9-2001 |
andrew I am not an expert so I trust your judgement. I would ask this though. I have only seen a few posts by unregister users and I don't think there are a ton of people who just read the site and don't post. Most do both. I think the last stats we had were about 1k to 2k register users which I don't think is huge for any advertiser. Even though the 1,000 users hit the site many many times you are still limited to a population of 1000 to 2000 potential customers. There is appeal to certain advertisers but it is not broad based. anyway we probably are off on a tangent now. | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
New member Username: Ironjoe Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2001 |
TO JACK GILLES 27 Hi,because the glam -girl is my wife,last time I checked under a different hood was back in 82,it was the hardship of choosing between Kelly my wife,(which was showroom new,extremly low mileage,I truly believe her when she says the sticker was in the window.and shes still a Heather Locklear look alike at 36.The other was Lydia a model that was on various covers of Vogue,cosmo etc she was burned out from evrybody in the guild trying to bang her all the time.Life is full of choices thats why I would have no problem choosing to pay 50 bucks a year for F.C.I can guarantee a 50 dollar bill just like it will be gone by tonight by the time the kids or glam-girl spend it on something ....... | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2001 |
Rob, I feel your pain... Another messageboard that I frequent (not Ferrari or car related) is having the same discussion/problem right now as their bandwidth requirements have skyrocketed the last several months. The biggest difference I see between that site and yours is the on-screen advertising on every page using frames to keep the ads up all the time. Up until now, the majority of the ads have been Ferrari related - what about pursuing one of the pre-built ad packages that have Classmates.com, Orbitz, shock the monkey, etc? One way that members can contribute indirectly to a site is by agreeing to click through on 2-3 ads per day. This method allows members to "pay" to use this valuable resource and allows the technical gurus to offer their expertise without having to pay a fee for the privelige. Let me mention another revenue stream possibility (please don't hate me everyone) - the dreaded popup ad. From what I understand, popup ads can generate reasonable income, but they can be annoying. Maybe a popup-free version of the messageboards could be offered for an annual fee to those who don't wish to deal with all of the great deals offered in those ads. It would seem that the membership demographics here should be very attractive to advertisers - we probably spend more discretionary income on travel, dining, etc. than 95% of the general population. Have you thought about putting together a deal with a travel agency? Every time a member books a trip, a portion of the commission goes to Ferrarichat.com. I hope some of this helps or at least sparks further discussion - I would hate to lose this valuable resource! | ||
| Andrew (Enzo250gto)
New member Username: Enzo250gto Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2002 |
Posted by TomD I hear what you are saying but those providing advise can stop giving advise if they want at any time, they can go away for three weeks and not worry about F-chat missing them, if rob did that you would be logging onto a blank screen. I am not sure we all understand all the time that is required to maintain the site. advertising is tough, even if we get up to say 3000 members, that really is not a huge amount as far a websites go. Just look a click through stats for popular mainstream sites Well for starters if you have 3000 members that means you have alot of traffic. Look at my site www.ferrariforum.net it only has 31 members but when I look at my log sheet I have on average over 300 unique visitors(a few reading will probably look but not sign up) a day. This site probably has close to 6000+ a day. Registered users is not your traffic, it just the people posting. Ask Rob I'm sure he can tell you what kind of traffic is going through his site day by day. As an advertiser thats a ton of veiwers a day and alot are probably different each time. I just hope Rob looks at the sites I suggested, especially www.rx7club.com they have over 11,500 members and the site is all free! Who's paying for that? The ads I gurantee and probably some donations. Look at www.linuxquestions.org its also paid for by ads and donations. It can be done, but the difference is I think these sites are running at cost or just a little over, many very little profit. If Rob wants to break even or make a little extra cash on the side he can do so with ads/donations. If he wants this to be a full time thing that feeds himself and family then he needs to charge and go bigtime. All this is just my opinion and observation being in the web business myself. | ||
| Rijk Rietveld (Rijk365gtb4)
New member Username: Rijk365gtb4 Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2002 |
Rob, AtlasF1.com used to be free and this is still the best site for F1 news. Now they charge $36 per year, which is $3 per month. First I thought that I was not going to pay for the site and get the news somewhere else, but within a week I gave them my credit card number, they just have the best site. I will gladly pay $36 per year to Rob for the privilege to use FerrariChat.com. It is one of the sites I check most and will be happy if Rob can keep this site improving. Rijk | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1258 Registered: 12-2000 |
Do any of the users that don't like the idea of a fee subscribe to FML? | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2002 |
It's easy to build a business case on the back of a napkin, implementing it is another thing. Autoextremist.com may be asking $1,000 for a banner ad, but I don't think they're actually getting it. If they were, they wouldn't be trying to go the subscription route. One reason they aren't getting it may be that they are highly controversial. Everyone wants to read it, but no one wants their name associated with it. Ron Zarella and his Brand Management strategy at GM were basically drummed out of town by this site. Ferrarichat.com isn't as controversial. For the record, I prefer a free site, but I sympathize with Rob, and I bet this debate is driving him crazy! He could be spending his time driving the 328 instead. Advertising may be the way to go, thanks to the extreme demographics of this group, but it has its drawbacks. If Algar were advertising do you think they would have pulled their ad a few weeks ago? Or Horseless Carriage and the other transport company? Then you need account executives to hold the hands of the advertisers, etc. etc. etc. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 629 Registered: 12-2001 |
Bret, I agree with you as well. You do offer lots of great advice and we all help out where we can. This is what makes FC GREAT!!!! | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 628 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ernie well said. It is true some offer tech info without wanting anything in return. Rob, I am a little disturbed by your comment about the Great Basis being lost for a $10 fee and that you don't want them as a member. I feel this way. I am not against giving due compensation but I think the soul of this site is the idea that Ferrari owners are helping each other out just for the simple fact that we want to. That isn't very common anymore in life. Many always have strings attached if they offer to help. I understand your situation but I think not wanting someone on this site because of that view is a little too far. If I am wrong or I misunderstood please let me know. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2012 Registered: 2-2001 |
It's just how things are changing, it's not the money, it's the principal of a fee. I like signing on here, mostly to see what others are doing and try and lend some advice as I've taken the 308 apart from end to end as of now, especially in the last three days I've done a ton more. But, I don't need Ferrarichat, I enjoy Ferrarichat. Something rubs me wrong about all of a sudden being charged. I would much rather run around for Rob on the east coast, going to Classic Coach, Wide World of Cars, Ferrari Long Island, Tire places, etc looking for some sponsorship to help the site. Then I feel like I'm contributing something worthwhile. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 221 Registered: 11-2001 |
I'm just trying to show that Rob can make more money keeping the site free, than he can if it is a paysite. But Rob has to make the choice. Rob you asked for our opinions and I gave you mine. I also gave an argument as to why my opinion is the better way to go. I hope you keep it free. Ernie | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 220 Registered: 11-2001 |
Another thing is go promote the site at other sites. You already have a link section, so offer other site masters a free v.i.p. membership for as long as they keep you listed on their site in addition to listing them in your links area. You can make the link section another pay area but with a smaller fee. You can make the link section part of the v.i.p. membership. Go promote the heck out of the site. This way you get the high traffic at your site so you can charge more money for your adds, even get more companies to place ads on the site. But keep the site Free. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 394 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ernie I hear what you are saying but those providing advise can stop giving advise if they want at any time, they can go away for three weeks and not worry about F-chat missing them, if rob did that you would be logging onto a blank screen. I am not sure we all understand all the time that is required to maintain the site. advertising is tough, even if we get up to say 3000 members, that really is not a huge amount as far a websites go. Just look a click through stats for popular mainstream sites rob It may be worthwhile for you to limit your hours to a certain amount per week and see if people are still happy with the service. -- I remember how many complaints you had when the site was slow for a week | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 219 Registered: 11-2001 |
See Rob $1,000 dollars for and ad. I see you have three ads runing x 3 = $3,000. Now just get 3 more ads and do the math. 6 ads x $1,000 x 12 months = $72,000 a year! Lets add a v.i.p. area with oh 750 members paying $2.95 a month for access x 12 months = an aditional $26,550 a year, for a grand total of $98,550 a year for a free site. Now if you are gonna do it the membership way, lets say $9.95 a year x oh how bout 5,000 members = $49,750. Let's see as a creative free site you can make make $98k a year or paysite and make $49k. I think the free site with ads and a v.i.p. section win hands down. Rob that is only with 6 ads and 750 paying v.i.p. members. Rob bro think smart, don't ruin a good thing for you and the members by making the whole thing a pay site. KEEP IT FREE! | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 310 Registered: 6-2001 |
rob: If I can put in my two cents: As an alternative, you could have a user's advertising site within this web page. From reading some of the profiles, there are people on this site that have either product or service to offer to Ferrari owners, etc. Given the popularity of this site, and the reason for its popularity, I think that Ernie makes a good point, as do a good many of your other users (Magoo, etc.). On the other hand, what started out to be a hobby, has turned into what is probably an almost full time job. You need to be compensated for the service you have provided. I would suggest that you try the various alternatives, least intrusive first, and see how they work, and if they are not as successful as you need, then work your way up to making this a paid site, but only as a last resort. that's my two cents. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1257 Registered: 12-2000 |
Thanks for your feedback Ernie and Magoo. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2145 Registered: 2-2001 |
I feel that Ernie has just summed it up as it should be and has said it better than anything suggested so far. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 218 Registered: 11-2001 |
Rob, bro, Listen bud I know you need to make some money, cause your wife is on your case. But come on, the reason this site is as great as it is, is because 1) It is free 2) The people here help each other 3) There is a sence of friendship Now if we are going to have to pay to have friends and give people our own advice, are you gonna pay a consulting fee to the members that offer the technical advice? Cause there are alot of people here that do that. Didn't you start the club so Ferrari fans and owners, like yourself, could hang out and chat, even offer free advice to one another. I say don't ruin a good thing, just cause you have the Mrs breathing down your neck. On the flip side I do feel that you should get paid for your work. Like I said before ADVERTISING is the way to go. Here is another idea Rob, keep the majority of the site free, but have a v.i.p. pay area. You will have to find out what to offer for the v.i.p. area that will make people want to join it. But I really feel that is a better way to go, that and the ads. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1256 Registered: 12-2000 |
Wow, they get $1,000 per banner ad. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2002 |
Rob: This is a great site. It deserves to continue and you deserve to make money doing it. The people on this site didn't get their Ferrari's by doing charity work. There have been many very productive suggestions from users. Perhaps you need to also ask for opinions from other site owners who haved struggled with the same issue. I think the reality is that people say they will pay but, when it comes time to pull out their wallets, they move on to other things. My suggestion is to get in touch with Peter De Lorenzo at Autoextremist.com. He's been struggling with the same issues for several months. He's gone the donation route, the sponsorship route, and now he wants to try the subscription thing, but he ran into problems with PayPal. I highly recommend Autorextremist.com to any Ferrarichat user who is interested in the auto industry. And it is still free. This site is a must read for industry insiders. All the top auto execs read it and I know of at least one racing sanctioning body that monitors it as well. De Lorenzo doesn't pull any punches. A new issue comes out every Wednesday. If the De Lorenzo name is familiar, it should be. Anthony De Lorenzo was VP of Public Relations for GM in the Sixties, Peter's brother Tony ran the Owens Corning Corvettes in Trans Am, and his cousin Matt is the Detroit Editor for Road & Track. | ||
| Andrew (Enzo250gto)
New member Username: Enzo250gto Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2002 |
Rob, I support whatever decision you choose. There is one site that went through what your going through. Its probably 20times the size of this but check it out. www.deviantart.com its a community for GDs. If you have any questions you should message a guy by the alias "Jark" he is very helpful and nice. What they've done is the site is free for everyone. But by paying 30 a year members get their own forum(which they really don't use). They also get an ad free version for faster viewing and a dedicated server. However, the content the for the paid members and free members is not any different. Just the members have a few perks that the others don't get. IE a few parts of the site exclusive for them. Keep your forum free and just add some of the stuff in your list below for members only. Also check www.rx7club.com its a huge site that is free and maybe able to help you out. One last thing, this would help cut down your 30hrs a week and would delegate some of the work over to the users willing to help out. www.phpnuke.org is a content manager that allows moderators to update the site as well without having root access. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1252 Registered: 12-2000 |
If anyone thinks the great basis of this site is lost because of a $10 annual fee, then I don't want them as a user anyway. How exactly would it be lost? Any user will be able to view messages, any new user would be able to read and post for 60-90 days, but other users would have to pay $9.95 a year to post. My goal right now is not to make money, but why shouldn't it be? I would love to do this full time. At the rate this site is growing we'll have 2-3 gb's of data and how much bandwidth will be required for 3,000 users. At the current rate, that's where the site is going in 6-12 months. I don't mind when this site started that it took 30 minutes to an hour of time a day. I'm now putting in about 20-30 hours a week. That's the real cost. What is my opportunity cost? My wife and checking accounts will tell you. There will be other message boards out there, but running this one as a business will make it out last any of them and also make it better. Do you realize over 70% of the content on the internet today is not being actively maintained. Why do people loose interest to keep sites going? I think I've made very good decisions with this site and my #1 goal moving forward is to make it the best online Ferrari community forever. It wouldn't be the best online Ferrari community, if I didn't keep most of the users happy. That's why I wouldn't do anything or at least fix it, if I did make the majority of users unhappy. Are you happy? Here's some things I would like to do... - Improved hardware and software. - Additional functionality like a Live Chat. - Hire people or have people donate time to have more content (Research, Parts reference, Model reference, Service procedures) - Fun non-chat interactive like the Trivia. - Corporate memberships at road tracks to allow users the safe performance driving of their F car. - Travel to the major Ferrari events (FCA Nats, Cavallino, CI) to meet with users and spread the FC world to others. - Sponsorship of a Ferrari race team to call our own. Track progress and meet with team when in your area. - More goodies from FC and even products/services from sponsors and others in the industry. I admit that it would be nice to benefit from this, but don't you think all of us benefit. I'm taking the most risk with my time and money. Please post here if you would refuse to pay a $9.95 a year fee. Thanks for everyone's feedback. If anything, you see I don't make decisions on my own, I'm very interested in the views of the users. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2144 Registered: 2-2001 |
Stu and Erich. If you will read my comments again you will see that it has nothing to do with the amount paid of $10.00 or $20.00. What it comes down to is how much is needed to run this site annually? In fairness why shouldn't the members know what they are paying for? Maybe when it's broken down the amount is more than$10.00 or $20.00. We just pick an amount without knowing where we are going??? Doesn't sound right to me. There isn't anyone here who can't pay the fees suggested so lets move that arguement out of the picture. Some see it as changing the orig. concept of the site and others see it as the principal of it all. If you guys want it this way, go for it, but the "great site" concept of the F.C. has been lost. If you decide to go this route then in my opinion you should know how much is needed to cover expenses and break it down that way. Not just putting in fees and not knowing how much is needed to support the site. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 626 Registered: 12-2001 |
Another point is what about the individuals that only add comments and help out on the site. Brian, Ed, Steve M. are they expected to pay when they rarely post a question but mainly post helpful responses? I don't want to see us lose great info either. I would rather donate as then it is up to the individual. There are ups and downs to both. I think Rob needs contributions but I don't want to see a fee come into play and hinder what a great site we created. I know we all get along very well but as soon as mandatory money gets involved things can change. Not to put this the wrong way but right now we can ask for items that we desire but ultimately it is still up to Rob's discretion. When members are now paying mandatory user fees they will feel their requests hold more weight and should be addressed. In essence this could be more work than it is right now. Some may want to see an expense document while others may want a real time chat. I am not saying I am not for compensation but I want everyone to see both sides. I also would like this site to grow and prosper. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 391 Registered: 9-2001 |
you guys are right - what makes the site great is that it is free and it has a large number of participants. Unfortunately that combination does not work from an economic point of view for the one person handling the management of the site. The key is to strike a balance - charge a fee while not scaring participants away. I think this is why this thread was started. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 625 Registered: 12-2001 |
I agree with Magoo. It doesn't matter if the fee is $10 or $75 it is the point that a fee is being charged and it could turn the direction of the great site. | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member Username: Luigi Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2001 |
I think donations as in form of private sponsors would be the best way to go. Many of the users would donate much more than 10$, this would compensate the ones who don't. It's too important to have a good flow of information and a membership fee would slow the site down. One other possibility is to put an annual fee for posting a technical question on the tech section, with free reply answer(monitored so that noone takes advantage of a reply to post a question free) and also put an expiration on the thread of 1-2 weeks ,so that if someone else has the same problem after a while he has to re-pose the question(and pay the fee).This would make it possible to leave the General discussion free. | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
Junior Member Username: 328infoseeker Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ok- I knew someone would make a comment like what Magoo did. Magoo you are right on by your comments about keeping the sight close to how it started but Rob is spending a tremendous amount of time keeping the sight up and running. The sight is Rob's idea and creation bettering expensive car.com . It is none our business what amount of money Rob has invested in the sight or how much he makes. Unless He (Rob) approachs any of us to become silent partners. Then you need to know his compensation. I hope the time and effort Rob puts into this sight someday puts his ace in an F40. I for one will be happy for him not jealous. | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ditto to Stu's comments, Web sites are incredibly time consuming. Besides Magoo, do the math, you would be paying less than half a cent per post. And Rob, if you do make it so we have to log in and you can find a way to restrict my access between the hours of 8:00 and 5:30 pm, I'm sure I can get my boss to make a contribution as well As for the level idea, maybe don't label members differently based on what they pay(i.e. diamond/platnium/gold), but give out something extra depending on how much you donate. $10 and get access, $20 access and a magnet/window sticker, $60 and get access, sticker and a t-shirt. Hey, it works for PBS. | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
Junior Member Username: Balataboy Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2001 |
BTW - Magoo, I'll pay your fee for you, just to keep you around!! I love you, man!!!! | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
Junior Member Username: Balataboy Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2001 |
"The Man" needs to be paid for his time! If how much is the question, well, I just paid 75 bucks for a years on-line subscription to the Ferrari Market Letter and I don't visit it nearly as much as I do this site. And, quite frankly, I don't think it's nearly as valuable to me as this site is. So, I am more than willing to pay a small ($10 - a bargin! to $50 - still worth it!) annual fee. Who cares how much Rob makes - more power to him! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2141 Registered: 2-2001 |
I agree with Bret and Peter. If it is $20.00 a person times 2,000 or 5,000, what happens to the rest of the monies after the site expenses are paid. Does each person get a accounting of how the monies are spent annually. Listen, It is not the amount of $10.00 or $20.00 per person but why do we need to bring this Chat line so far from its orig. concept all of a sudden. Why do we need to bring such large amounts of money annually into the chat line. Who determines how the money is spent over and above the fixed expenses? Lets see what it costs to keep the F.C. running annually and go from there. Otherwise we are just shooting from the hip on how much we need to keep it running. If we are going to make a business out of this then lets run it like one. However, I liked the orig. concept as Bret suggests. | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
Junior Member Username: 328infoseeker Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2001 |
Time is Money. You need to be paid for your time spent keeping up with this animal. I like the idea of new posters have 90 days trial. After that you will need to be a member. General area could be seen by all and would be a good advertising area. Now that there is going to be a fee will there be an adult Sextion. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2010 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'd rather make a donation if you need money to keep the site running or help you get more sponsorship than pay a fee to log on. I don't know, it's just that this site started out as a great way for a bunch of pretty much shade tree mechanics to swap info and stories, it's getting so formal. I can see how it can get expensive to run and all, but paying a membership fee just seems kind of weird. It takes away from the free feeling of the site IMO. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1701 Registered: 12-2000 |
I had a recent experience where I needed to ask some technical questions on a Mazda Miata motor (long story that I won't go into here...). I found a great forum where I signed up to ask the questions, I got them answered and I've gone on with my business. All free of charge. If I had to pay $10 to ask these questions, without any hesitation, I would've gone elsewhere. Keep the site free. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 173 Registered: 12-2001 |
I agree with that, I'd rather have a smaller number of GREAT users than a ton of useless ones. You will lose some current great users with a charge for use, but I don't think a significant number. I most of us here are willing to pay for quality. I consider this site a great information source. Virtually any type of question(some F related, some not) can be answered by using this site. I don't see how that is any different than me asking my attorney or accountant or doctor for advice. This site offers a service, makes sense to me to charge a fee for that service. | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
Junior Member Username: Dbr328gtb Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2001 |
How about this: No charge just for looking but if you want to post anything, you pay a yearly subscription fee. Charge whatever you think you need to keep site going and everyone at your home (including yourself) happy. $10-20 is incredibly cheap considering the value (like 1 cent or less per hour of use). I would pay more if you needed it. Dan | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1250 Registered: 12-2000 |
Don't worry, I will never sell the e-mail adresses. People can just go to the DOT for that. Do people think we could get too many users on this site? There are already so many messages it's hard to keep up. I think people would rather have 2,000 great users vs. 10,000 anybodys. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2001 |
My point is this, in regards to sales. The more people you have looking at an add the more you can charge. You can make a small amount on memebership fees, but the big money is in adds. Create more traffic at your site. The best way to do this is keep it free, offer free services like e-mail, and a live caht room. The reason is to get more and more people on your site, the more the better. Advertising will make you the money. Television, and Radio make 100% of their money from advertising. That last Superbowl commercial was about $2M for :30 seconds of time. If you wanna make the bucks get the high traffic at your site and charge the companies. The advertisers are looking for new places to spend their money, why not your site??? You could get adds from spark plug companies, oil, national lube and filter places like Jiffy Lube, tire manufactures, glass companies, car rental places, specialty companies like K&N filters, etc. The list goes on and on. You can even offer ticket sales to Racing events. My point is think B I G!!! | ||
| Dominic L. DiMento (Domenico)
New member Username: Domenico Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2002 |
The info. I've learned on this site is tremendous. Whatever you charge is STILL worth it. We all love Ferraris' and try to spread the word to the unknowing and help others in their quest for the most passionate cars in the world. This web site is a rare place that respects all chat members from all walks of life bonded by the passion for the "Prancing Horse". 10 to 20 bucks is a steal. I'm addicted. Ciao. | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Junior Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 246 Registered: 10-2001 |
I agree with the majority here that flat fee of $20 a year is peanuts compared to the incredible technical information, laughs, and general enjoyment gained from the site. If new people are given a free 30 day period, I find it hard to believe that they won't find the value in spending a measly $20 a year. Count me in...and oh by the way, love the shirt Rob, they look great. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
New member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob, Yes, it's possible to 'sell sponsorship', but then your members will be subjected to all types of spam, just like the 'free' internet services. People may come to resent that. It's worth $10-$20 not to deal with extra junk mail. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2001 |
Rob the way to go is how you are doing it right now. Yes it is important to make a buck. Take Yahoo for example, they are free. Most of their money is from advertising sales. Then they got creative and added a travel agency. They are making bug bucks with that idea. If you do charge there will be those that stay, but the users will drop out gradually. Keep it free I say and make the money on the adds. That is where you sould hustle the money. If you do charge a fee do it in conection with an e-mail address. The way MSN and Yahoo do it. They are making hundreds of millions, but I bet your just hoping for thousands. Thats just my two cents. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1249 Registered: 12-2000 |
Manu, the 60 day free membership should probably take care of those users. I'll probably implement some form of this starting July 1st. Here in a month or so I'll start taking payments, but your year won't start until July 1st. That way when I freeze all users that are over 60 days and haven't paid, then there are still a big core group of users already paid up. Would people be interested if I got a corporate membership at Motorsports Ranch C.C. in Fort Worth? Any local users and out of towners could drive their hearts out for about $20 a session. I appreciate everyone's kind words about the site. I don't think anyone would disagree that the best part of the site is all the diverse users that are very knowledgeable and passionate about Ferrari. Thanks, rob | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 544 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob, i would have no problem with a $10-20 a year membership. Its like those ads on TV to feed children sort of. For 5.5 cents a day ($20 a year) you can help a little website dedicated to die-hard ferrari fans provide a place to discuss cars. I probably shouldnt be trying to make any humour of those commercials because its just mean, but it shows how little of a cost it is. Ive met alot of people on this board in the almost a year ive been a member, it'll be worth it. I also feel i have alot to contribute, and also alot to learn. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 82 Registered: 2-2002 |
One thing I forgot to mention mate! It may prevent future Ferrari buyers and especially enthusiasts signing up.... Its may be hard for someone thinking about buying a Ferrari and who wants just a little more info to justify, even the small fees.... The die-hards like me (even though I'm very new to the site) won't mind....but future posters may, (and that's just a maybe) put off a little bit. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 81 Registered: 2-2002 |
Rob, No problem. I'll pay that too... Make sure you find a method of international payment processing. However... I have one stringent condition......... When I come over to the States I expect to be picked up by the brand new 550 you're going to buy from the proceeds.....Just kidding mate - go on ahead - this is a great website! Manu | ||
| Allen Cook (Alcook62)
New member Username: Alcook62 Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob, I would be willing to pay a flat annual fee of $10-$20. I find your site both entertaining and a wealth of knowledge. In order to access the storehouse of information available on this site, $10 is a bargain. | ||
| John Bicsak (Funshipone)
New member Username: Funshipone Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hello Rob I am a new Ferrari Owner, and a new Ferrari Chat user. I can't wait to get home every night to see what is new on Ferrari Chat.Com I think this is really low cost help and entertainment. I would be happy to pay what is required to keep the site going, and your wife happy. I know my Ferari keeps me happy so I do what ever is needed to keep my wife happy. I believe everyone should pay same price Keep up the good work!!! | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 285 Registered: 3-2001 |
Count me in for an annual fee. It's well worth it, period. I agree with the thought below... I'm sure your objective is to continue to grow the site. It takes some time to get "hooked" on FC. Anybody remember their first visit here.... maybe a bit intimidated? I'd offer new users 60 days free access. That way, they'll get hooked too... and then we won't get tired of each other! :-) | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 301 Registered: 7-2001 |
Sign me up for the $10 fee. Or I can just buy you lunch? I like the idea of the people paying fees having more access, and maybe you could include a discount on the merchandise? As much as some of us use the boards, we shouldn't expect you to go broke or wind up divorced because of it. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
New member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob-I think you can justify some fee structure. Members see this site for what it is--much more a community than any of the other sites out there. Besides, it isn't as if you're asking a huge amount. And another thing--How does IronJoe manage to date Glam Girls when he's only dropping $100 on them? I hope he's careful when he 'looks under their hoods'. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 142 Registered: 3-2001 |
Rob, I can mail you EUROs, just tell how many . | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Junior Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 192 Registered: 9-2001 |
Minimal yearly flat fee on the order of $10-20 would be appropriate. More and more websites are going to this... Given the number of postings in general, I would avoid making one thread free as people would tend to overload it. I think something on the order of 30 days would be great though. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 261 Registered: 2-2001 |
I started posting questions here way before I got my Ferrari, and if it were not for the great support I got here, I probably would have purchased something else (let alone all the great technical support and advise I have received since purchase). Personally, I think that alone is worth the fee or donation. Whatever you choose to do Rob, it is your call, and it is fine by me. | ||
| DHutchison (Hutch308)
New member Username: Hutch308 Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2002 |
Use of this site is definitely worth $10 a year considering all the benefits FerrariChat has to offer. Just let me know how you want it to be payed, cash, check, or credit card. I will certainly smash open my piggy bank for a just cause like Ferrarichat. As for people who do not pay the annual fee, simply post their names on the homepage as "DELINQUIENT" or something to that tone. Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free? | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 76 Registered: 9-2001 |
For the quality of the info on this site $50 a year is NOT to much to pay. Already saved me far more than that. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 1605 Registered: 5-2001 |
If the LExus Club members can not afford $9.95 a year I can see that point. Most of them have their cars financed, as well as the house, kids and the wife's past 5 plastic surgeries. If we F-Owners have to count the 995 pennies it would take to keep Rob rolling....well, maybe Rob can implement a monthly plan to pay 89c. Come on.... | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
New member Username: Ironjoe Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2001 |
TO ROB all gentleman and you too ED (haha),think about it guys,40 or 50 bucks is nothing compared to the read time,communication time,time savings on repair tricks,average trip to 7-11. 20 bucks,kids going to movies 40.00,friday night dinner wwith glam-girl 100.00 bucks,FERRARI CHAT.COM......................PRICELESS..... | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 370 Registered: 2-2001 |
I would pay $10-$20 for a year no big deal. But I think everyone should pay or none at all. There are lots of sites that charge a small fee. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 599 Registered: 1-2001 |
JSL -- Just wanted to mention that you can use the "edit post" function (the little paper and pencil icon in the upper right-hand corner of the post) to correct your minor faux pas if you do it within 1 hour of the original post. | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
New member Username: Jscott Post Number: 38 Registered: 1-2002 |
Please forgive my spelling, maybe a spell check would be a real help. | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
New member Username: Jscott Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2002 |
Charge a fee. If we can afford a Ferrari, we can afford to pay a fee for this great tool. The money saved by member suggestions is hugh. The site is a real assett and 10-20 bucks a year is a steal. Nobody should be expected to spend a hundred hours a week for free. I will pay whatever the charge. Thanks for this tool. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1248 Registered: 12-2000 |
If you have a credit card, it will automatically convert. I for sure would have a free period so new users could test what kind of value they can get from the site. I'm not sure it would kill the site. There would be a hand full of users that wouldn't pay, but are those active users and are those the users we want on the board anyway? How many active users don't think they would pay $9.95 a year? I know we wouldn't get all the Vette, Porsche, and NSX users. That would make the site more boring. It's fun to gang up on them. ;) | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 385 Registered: 9-2001 |
nev I think you would have trouble policing the tech area for people asking new questions instead of answering someone elses. anyway not a bad idea. Can't you use a credit card to pay in USD? | ||
| Neville Pugh (Nevpugh68)
New member Username: Nevpugh68 Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2001 |
Why not have it so you can post to areas such as "general chat" and so on free of charge, but if you want to START a new thread in the technical section then you have to subscribe (whether it be $5 or $10 or whatever, for a year) That way people can still chat about Ferrari's, but if they've got a specifical technical or mechanical question (from which they are going to benefit) then they have to pay a small fee (the annual fee would allow many or unlimited posting of new questions/threads) Also, this doesn't stop people ANSWERING questions free of charge. Finally, dont forget us overseas types .... how would we subscribe if we dont deal in USD ? | ||
| Chris Richardson (Boozy)
Junior Member Username: Boozy Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2001 |
Charging any mandatory fee, even 50cents is the surest way to kill the site. The donations thing would be a better idea in a way, since you won't lose any users. Obviously most people won't donate, but the extra income from those who do will help. | ||
| Erick Gravel (Erickg)
New member Username: Erickg Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2002 |
I think more people will be willing to donate than to be forced to pay. We did the same thing at clublexus.com members that donate have access to forums that non paying members dont. Technical help forums and such. I dont own a ferrari yet and I would definetly donate what i can to help. This site is a gold mind of information for enthusiasts and die hard fans Friendly bunch of people here.. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Junior Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 170 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rob, I think a flat yearly fee works great. I also agree with Richelson that it should not be voluntary. I appreciate the wealth of information available here and the level and class of both content and members. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 622 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think a flat yearly rate for everyone is not a bad idea. Then it would be the same as it is now with no special names but we pay $10 per year. That is a very fair price for everyone to pay and I wouldn't think there would be any conflict nor would the site lose any members. What do you the rest of you think about this? I am curious to read other members views? | ||
| Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
Junior Member Username: Srandrsn Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2001 |
Rob, Perhaps there are others on the site who would be willing to contribute on some of those areas you mention, trivia, procedures, etc... Posting here and doing e-mail are the extent of my computer knowledge =) but if I knew more I'd be willing to help if I could. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1246 Registered: 12-2000 |
The site will be here the rest of my life, I will sell the house and every car but the Ferrari to keep it going. However, I wouldn't mind things being a little more comfortable. To be honest, it's possible the way things are going that we'll have 5,000 users soon and I'll be able to do it full time. I really wish I had more time to do better content like documenting service procedures, parts cross reference, research, trivia, and really just become an overall valuable repository for everything Ferrari. Wouldn't you like it if I was able to put that much into the site for $9.95 a year? There are concerns from people on a few different fronts about the levels. Some want to be anonymous and then the concern about how users will act towards each other. Maybe a 1 month free evaluation period and then a flat yearly rate? | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 327 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is there some way you can incorporate into a religious organization so the "donation" will be tax deductible? But seriously... The things we get off this site would be well worth the fee that we would pay. Rob, I would hate to see this site slow down because of lack of funding or too much of your time. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 620 Registered: 12-2001 |
Here is where I see the problem. I think it might be better if either everyone pays a fee or no one pays a fee and here is why. If a few of us pay a fee and then some don't and they use the site just as much I feel people will start not getting along as well. A diamond member may feel slighted that the non-paying member is posting as just as much as he is and getting the same amount of responses. Then the diamond member now may only respond to paying members as he feels these are the individuals who have paid and feel the others are taken advantage of the site. I just wanted to bring this out as I have seen this happen before and I don't want to see it hinder or ruin this great site. On the other hand if there is a mandatory fee then you will get individuals who are serious about the site and not have any posts that are trying to start some form of confrontation. With the fee though I think there will be a membership loss too. Plus, some members only repsond with helpful info and don't ask any questions so is it fair to charge them? I think I have posted enough info here for us to think about. Does anyone else have other possible outcomes? Rob, it is ultimately up to you. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 380 Registered: 9-2001 |
Rob What ever you feel is reasonable, yet if we see you purchase a new 550 in a couple of months were on to you . In all honesty, I think most of us would say the site saves us money in repairs and is a whole lot of fun. To get that for 40 bucks is great. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1245 Registered: 12-2000 |
I need some honest feedback on this everyone. I don't want to implement mandatory site subscription fees. I would rather let people use the site for awhile to see if it provides any value to them. I also don't want to take donations, although I've had many users recommend this. How about various membership levels like Classmates.com and a few other sites are doing. It would be based on the honor system. If you don't use the site much or you're tight on budget, then it's free. But look at what FCA, FOC, and Ferrari Market Letter charge. I wouldn't expect that amount of money, although we all know this site provides more value than those. ;) Anyway, how about a few membership levels like... Gold - $9.95 a year Platinum - $19.95 a year Diamond - $39.95 a year Now for each level, what could I give you in addition to what the site already provides you? I could use some ideas here. Now you might ask why I'm doing this if I already have site sponsors and it's just a hobby. It's funny how wife's remember everything and she remembered something I said last year about this site just being for fun and not taking much time. Well, it's still fun, but it's really turning into more of a job than a hobby. If you don't agree there should be a fee for this service, then simply don't pay. I'm not going to make judgments on people. The beauty of this board is the diversity and some of you are diverse on the cheap side. ;) I would bill through the "Online Store" above and I would change your level title to represent the fee you paid. For example, "Gold Karting". Ok, let the keyboards start smoking. |