| Author | Message | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2002 |
Now that we're wildly off-topic, I was reading an Aviation magazine in the Hanger today, and noticed the Eclipse Jet 500 is moving on completion on their first test airframe. This, for the unfamiliar, is a $800k, $0.56c/mile total operating cost, 5 or 6-seat (inc crew) entry Twin Turbofan bizjet. (!!!) The cost is competitive with USED turboprops, and that operational cost is roughly HALF that of a Baron from what I can garner. Competitive with first-class in *airliines* with only 3 people onboard.... It's only downside is range, about 1300kts (optional tip tanks boost this to 1800kts, but at the price of a few passangers/cargo.) Wow. This plane has me really excited, I can actually concieve of owning one in a few years. It's sold out (at a rate of 200/yr) through 2006 already though, so maybe it'll be 'several' years yet :D) http://www.eclipseaviation.com/ Gosh, I feel like a salesmen. I'm just ga-ga over the possabilities here. The plane I really want is a GV-SP, wow, baby! (at $35-40mil, yeah, right :P) Best! Ben. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2002 |
Always be very selective of who's hands you entrust with your life  Aviation is really very safe, though I firmly belive the wrong approach to components and fialure is taken. Old tech that is just used and replaced *when it brakes* (usually not before, time ratings on turbines notwithstanding.) I digress. Aviation is as safe as the Aviator, just like motoring. Stupidity/carelessnes kills just as dead in either. I feel safer flying, especially multi-pilot, in a multi-engine. I feel safer flying that I do walking across the street. An inexpierenced pilot (I know I am one) will do all KINDS of horrible things in IMC. In IMC you need to contineously scan *all* instruments. Single instruments often fail, and the only way to know is to do a full crosscheck (ie, if turn cordinator shows flat, but the crude level shows bank, and the VSI shows lots of descent, YOU'RE IN A DOWNWARD SPIRAL! With a broken instrument to boot.) I belive in Avionics as a rule, GPS there to back up (but not suppliment/replace) VOR/ILS/other instruments, etc. I'm not even VFR approved yet, so don't listen too hard to what I say. You guys would get a kick out of talking to my friend Jon. Best! Ben. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 563 Registered: 6-2001 |
Michael: The fatal accidents which alcohol in the pilot's system was reported about 1 - 2 years ago as a higher number, and my recollection is that it was about 30%. The issue of risk is always related to the experience of the pilot. An obvious risk factor are the standard items which account for airplane crashes: 1. Low flying, 2. Buzzing, 3. VFR into IRF conditions, 4. Alcohol, 5. Flight into conditions too much for the plane, and lastly 6. Pilot's failure to ensure adequate fuel for the trip (running out of gas before arrival at the destination). Art | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 612 Registered: 4-2001 |
I am not too sure where Art gets his numbers -- I do not believe that the last number I saw for Alcohol accidents were even above 2%. But none the less, Art is right-- avoid all those people and flying is quite safe. However, I do not understand what "risks" mean. I am sure I am safer flying to 100 feet above ground and in 1400 feet forward visbility than many VFR pilots flying in clear blue skies, but take a poll and I am the one taking the risk even though I am much better trained etc., etc. Risks cannot be just defined by activity, it must include qualifications of pilot and airplane type etc. A great example is the JFK stuff discussed earlier. His flight was a very easy, not risky at all night flight. It just that he was not qualified to take that flight. Avoid certain people , yes, but how in the world does the average person know what is risky and what is not when it comes to flying. I have had people not want to fly with me on a smooth foggy day in a twin engine turbine, yet go up with another person in a single engine on another clear day when the wind is gusting to 30 kts. The windy day is far more dangerous. All in all I agree with Art, learn how to avoid certin pilots and you should fly safely. Things will happen, but a well trained pilot 99% of the time will walk away to fly another day without hurting anyone --unfortunately you never see them on the news. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 562 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob: While Michael is technically correct, I have strong disagreement with the figures he is relying upon. The way the accident rate is computed is by hours of exposure. Sure enough the private plane is about 50% less safe than an auto on the freeway. However if you compute the figures by miles driven or flown, you get a totally different result: The private plane is about 50% safer per mile. Bottom line: don't fly with someone who drinks (30% of the fatal crashes) don't fly with a pilot who takes risks (the other 68%) and the accident rate would drop for you to something safer than the airlines or corporate travel. What I'm saying is that if you are careful about who you fly with, this is safe. Art | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 611 Registered: 4-2001 |
Unfortunatley the rate's that high. Move to corporate jets and turbines and only then do you get into the same range and magnitude as airline mishaps. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1921 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hey, I use to play flight simulator and have about 3 hours of instruction. Can't you just watch your horizon instrument and the rate of climb/decent? Or is it more how to react when things go wrong. My dad was a pilot and talking with a few others, I heard it's like when you own a motorcycle that it's just a matter of when you'll have a incident. I heard the same with pilots, that if you fly, then you will have close calls. Seems like there's always private planes going down. Is the rate really that high, or do the news stations always report them and it just seems high? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 561 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob: JFK's plane was an almost new Piper Saratoga. 6 place airplane, with a 300 HP engine. Not particularly fast for that type of plane, some 20 knots slower than a comparable Beech (A36), cruise at about 160 knots. A very stable airplane, with a lot of room in the interior, almost cabin class. JFK only had a few hundred hours, and most of them with an instructor. The plane had a KAP150 autopilot (Note: I had the prececessor unit, a KAP200, which tried to kill me twice before I sold that airplane) which had apparently had problems with the auto trim running wild, ending up in the full down position (not something you want to happen, difficult to stop, and you will certainly lose altitude before you get things under control: I speak from actual experience). From what I read, JFK got disoriented, and entered into a spiral, which turned into a dive. Exactly what happens to a non-instrument rated pilot (life expectancy when in instrument conditions: less than 5 minutes) get disoriented, and because of the limited visibility, and the dark conditions, JFK was in instrument conditions, even though by the rules he was VFR. Art | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1350 Registered: 6-2001 |
Art, ive seen L39's fly at airshows and they demostrated and explained how capable they are. I wonder if they thrill you more than a ferrari? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1916 Registered: 12-2000 |
Oh, I just found out that a private pilot died many decades ago within a few yards of the 1.4 acres my wife and I just bought in Southlake. Also, the house is 80 years old and in the 30's the family was driving back from Grapevine in some old car with jump seats. They hit a bump and the husband went flying out the back and died. Hmm, so if anything happens to me, everyone knows something spooky is up with this land. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1915 Registered: 12-2000 |
Art, any info on the type of plane and mods? I heard it was was really souped up. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 549 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob: I read the NTSB report on JFK's crash. The history cited in that report indicated that while he was training for his instrument rating, his instructor felt that he was not compentent to fly on instruments. It is interesting to note, that had he turned on the auto pilot, he would have been able to let the plane fly itself. There had been an instance in the past where the autopilot had misbehaved, and perhaps that is what kept him from using it on that night. Additionally, the weather reports he had gotten were optimistic, and the actual weather while still VFR (visual flight rules, i.e., with at least 3 miles of visuability) was about 3-4 miles of visiability, not the 5 - 7 the forecaster advised him. Chris: myself and two other guys at the airport are buying an L-39C, which is an eastern block jet trainer. A difficult plane to fly, but fairly quick, and a neat toy. They look like a jet fighter, and are fully aerobatic. Art | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2002 |
Art: Nice plane! My pilot-friend has a client with a pretty nice Turbo V-tail Bonanza (B36TC type I belive. Garmin 430, leather, etc.) The v-tail is a little more unstable laterally, but it's sure fun. The Barons are *really* nice! I know Marin Ranch, we'll have to get together one of these days. (I'm away on buisness untill Aug 18, oddly enough, we're test-flying cameras :P I'll give you a ring when I return.) Best! Ben. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
New member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2002 |
"Yep, ask JFK junior that question." That's rude, thanks guy I spilled my drink because I was laughing so hard. You owe me a beer. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 364 Registered: 3-2002 |
Art, Steve Patterson (275GTB) just bought a King Air........... now I know two guys with big planes! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1894 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yep, ask JFK junior that question. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1305 Registered: 6-2001 |
Do you take planes out for vacations and flights like you might use the ferrari for a weekend trip or sunday drive? That sounds very appealing, but i'd prefer the ferrari. If i got a plane it would be something sporty like an extra 300, at least after i went through all the training, licensing, etc required. Sporty planes are hard to fly just like sports cars can be hard to drive, right? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 542 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ben: I have a Model 58 Baron. It's the piston powered twin manufactured by Beech. Basically a Bonanza, A36 with 2 engines (285HP), 6 place, club seating, etc. I keep it at Marin Ranch airport, about 20 miles south of you. Plane is currently in annual and paint. I am promised that it will be done at the end of this month, since they've had it for 2 months already. I'm in the book in Marin, give me a call if you want to do some flying. Art | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2002 |
(apologies to the off topic) Art, what type of plane do you have? A good friend of mine is a CFI/MEI and we fly a lot together. (he's been training me on a Beach Dutchess as of late. And I still don't completely have my private :P) It's funny, I used to look at the world in a totally different way pre-airplane, now I can live *anywhere* and always be in-touch. Have fun at the event guys, I'd love to come, but cannot make it. *please* someone get pics and video of that F40LM Best! Ben. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 540 Registered: 6-2001 |
Chris: The last time I was there at an AFM race, they allowed me to land on the back straightaway. What time will you be starting? Could you see if they will allow me to land there again? acw: There are NO good motels in the area, Motel 6 is about the best. The track is on I5 near the junction to Bakersfield (also known as the armpit of California), and there are a couple decent Motels there. Art | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 309 Registered: 11-2001 |
Well right on! I'm glad your being so shareful, cause I'm sure it wasn't cheap to rent the track. Thanks, and I'll see you there. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 357 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ernie, please come, I am sure we can get you some passenger seat time. Chris | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2001 |
I would love to attend. How ever my 348 is having bad misfire problems, think it might be the computer. I don't think you want a car limping along as a road obsticle. I'm in the Ventura area so it is only about a two hour drive for me, and would love to hang out and take some video, if that is ok. | ||
| Dennis Walsh (Wheel_kinetics)
New member Username: Wheel_kinetics Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2002 |
Chris, I will do my best to get out there! I should have more info for you on Tuesday. I would defiently be out there if my 355 deal had come through. As of now, it's just the one racecar which isn't allowed. Dennis Walsh [email protected] | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 157 Registered: 1-2002 |
Chris: I'd like to attend, conisdering I'm only a couple of hours from Buttowillow, even if only as a spectator. Also, if you'd like, I have friends that run BW routinely and I'd be glad to forward you some detailed track maps/notes, let me know. My email is: [email protected] | ||
| j scott leonard (Jscott)
Junior Member Username: Jscott Post Number: 137 Registered: 1-2002 |
Chris: I would like to come and watch. I have a 328 so I won't be on the track. Is watching allowed? I'm in Central Calif. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1283 Registered: 6-2001 |
You should talk to will (countachXX) about racing in the NE. Hes always racing up here, hes the one to ask. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 346 Registered: 3-2002 |
I will figure out where we are staying and let everybody know. I know we will be there Monday night. Chris | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 345 Registered: 3-2002 |
German, Hi yes I remember talking with you, too bad about your 360, maybe they can get it fixed in time. I would love to have you come out to the track. I am sure we can get you some passenger seat time. e mail me when we get closer to track time and let me know if you can make it. thanks Chris | ||
| Tim Gendreau (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 149 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris: are you going to be staying at a Buttonwillow hotel monday and/or Tuesday night? if so which one? your track link shows buttonwillow hotels. be nice if we could stay in the same place. probably should get reservations now. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
New member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chris, We spoke at the FCA event at Fontana on Saturday. We share the same type of watch except my days are in German. Anyway, Buttonwillow is a fun track .Not as fast as Willow Springs ( a local LA track) but more technical. It should be very warm. What configuration will you run on ? Depending on the heat that day you most likely will experience varying degrees of grip , it's mostly decent but can get loose in some corners because of the winds and dust on the line. Would love to join you out there but the 360 has a very cracked header (dealer won't weld the crack ) parts are on back order . It also has been leaking more than my 1 year olds diaper. I may drive out to watch if I can clear the calendar that day if it's okay with you. regards, German | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Junior Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2001 |
damm that will be an awesome event ..too bad im here in France ! Sucks ! Well please please please ..take a lot of pictures for us !!! that F40 LM must be something ! Have loads of fun , drive Fast and well ENJOY ! | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 344 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tim, I live in Kansas City, so it is a long way for me as well, but since Concorso Italiano is the previous week and since Brembo is in LA this just worked. Let me know about any track days in NY and I would love to come if I am available... Chris | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1278 Registered: 6-2001 |
Damn, cant you guys rent a track closer to the NY? HAve fun and take pics (vids would be great too!) | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 343 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ferrari's only | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 342 Registered: 3-2002 |
8 AM to 5 PM | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 341 Registered: 3-2002 |
It is going to be very hot at the track, but we will have 2 Motorhomes there | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 340 Registered: 3-2002 |
A Helmet and nomex suit is required | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 339 Registered: 3-2002 |
I am not sure about the Hotels, this is in the middle of nowhere... so I am not too concerned | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 70 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chris, Very interesting. I'm quite interested but I'm not sure what is my schedule that day. Is there a good hotel with a secure parking nearby? I have seen many hotels on the web site but I'm not sure which one is good. Please email me with more info. ACW [email protected] | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 338 Registered: 3-2002 |
go to : www.buttonwillowraceway.com for track information | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 478 Registered: 3-2002 |
Oh, that leaves me out. Wish I had the time in my schedule for it. Thanks, and have fun. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 337 Registered: 3-2002 |
Buttonwillow is about an 1 1/2 hours NE of LA | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 474 Registered: 3-2002 |
Where is Buttonwillow? | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 336 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have rented Buttonwillow for the entire day of Tuesday August 20th. Tim Gendreau is bringing his F40 (and 360 Challenge?) Roland Linder (multiple LeMans winning driver) is bringing his F40LM (800+HP at the rear wheel!) and I will have my F40 with new Brembo's. Grant Maiman, Skip Barber points leader in the national series will be there for driving instruction. If you are interested in coming and play let me know! Chris |