| Author | Message | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2002 |
Congratulations Chris!!! At 5' 11", you may still have a chance. (at 6' 2" I'd probally be screwed. Heck, I have a hard time in any pre-80s Ferrari.) It'll take a custom moulded seat taken off a mould of your tush (which I'd recomend even if you fit like a glove, the older seats are very unsafe) , and possibly some modification to the car, but you're definately not out of the realm of possability. Wow, you're living the dream buddy! Ferrari open-wheel, WHAT a weight-loss motivator! Chris, you should start a diet program, I'd be all over it! PS: have you seen the movie "Gattaca"? Aww, nevermind :p) Best! Ben. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Junior Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 147 Registered: 10-2001 |
what about a F40 GTE ? | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 367 Registered: 3-2002 |
HI MARTIN! we have not talked for a while! yes I am excited, but reserved at the same time! This is the perfect car for me if I can fit. I can lose 20lbs, but I am going to have a hell of a time getting shorter! Martin, are you going to Monterey? You need to come to Buttonwillow on the 20th! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2516 Registered: 5-2001 |
ALL RIGHT CHRIS!!!! ....so I guess I will never be able to 6'4'' 210Lbs | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 366 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ben, I have settled on a 166 Tasman F2 Ferrari. I have found the car I want and if a couple of things go the way I want (we are a little ways apart), we could close on this in 60 days. The big question is can I fit? These cars were built for drivers that were 5'6", 145lbs, not 5'11" 200lbs. The current owner has warned me that anyone my height may not fit, so I will take a trip after Concorso Italiano to see if I fit. keep your fingers crossed! | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Chris, my head says you're crazy, but my heart is ONE HUNDRED PRECENT behind you :D) Guess which body-part most of us F-chatters listen to? Gotta at least drive the F1 at 60+%, or below 20%, to avoid going into the wall. There's no middle-ground. Hell, even 20% in an F1 is absolutely INSANE. If you've had at least some higher power open-wheel expierence (those cars are FAR more forgiving than an F1 btw, but they're in a similar vein at least. You have more time in them than I do too ;) I just don't want to see you get hurt, a Formula 1 car can take a very expierenced, skilled, seasoned driver, and KILL him like that. You spend your time in one on the ragged edge between the perfect line, and a fiery death (then again, such is life, no? ;) You may have the right combination of balls and modesty to pull it off, just don't ever let yourself think so (or you'll loose it :D) I also understand about wanting a Ferrari with a cappitol 'F', and Twelve Cylinders Of Maranello shrieking 6cm behind your right ear. A car that makes your blood boil and your heart melt. I truely hope you find what you're looking for. Best! Ben. | ||
| Pascal A. J. Maeter (Maeter)
New member Username: Maeter Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2001 |
One of the ways to know for sure is to drive an F1 car. There is a company in the UK by the name of Adrenaline UK which organizes F1 drives at F1 tracks in Europe, Spa (Belgian GP, the fastest track in the F1 season) and Jerez (Spanish GP). The cars are 1998 Benetton, as raced by Gian Carlo Fisichella. That should solve the height and weight question as well as the effect of G forces. At the end of the straight at Spa, the average driver takes in about 5Gs with braking for a tight right hander from 360Kmh down to about 120kmh. A friend is on the board of Brembo, the brake company, and he told me a modern F1 car needs 9 meters to go from 100kmh to 0, or about 25 feet to go from 65mph to full stop! | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 487 Registered: 3-2002 |
Actually Chris, you can just buy a recent Minardi chassis, paint it red, and say it's a Ferrari. These days, they all look the same. Just don't let anyone see the engine. | ||
| G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
New member Username: Wfo_racer Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chris, D. Marconi is a local car guy. He stores his cars in what he calls his museum for kids ( he has a web site). He has Michael Schumacher's 1996 Ferrari among other F1 cars. He would be a good resource to ask regarding the purchase of a F1 car. We used to watch the F1 races inside the facility on a 20 ft screen with a awesome surround system. In fact my oldest son Ayrton who is 3 has his picture taken every year in Senna's 1983 Formula One Honda that he also owns . When I first met him we went to his race shop adjacent to the museum to look at some cars. He has a F50 and next to it a car covered with a tarp , we pulled the tarp off and it's another F50. His comment to me was "sh_t German, anybody can have one". That's his type of humor. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1309 Registered: 6-2001 |
"The F1 cars are scarey, I know I will never be ready to drive those cars at anything approaching 100% (30%?)" Chris, the thing with these is you cant just go 30% because you wont have the downforce. Im sure they handle better than any car on the road even without it, but they were designed to have 1000+lbs of downforce in corners. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 362 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jack, you and I do think alike. Schumachers Benetton is something I would consider. But it would be a last resort. The problem again is that 2 of the major times I go to the track, Cavallino and FCA National meet, they ONLY allow Ferrari's (or Maserati's) so this is a major reason I am holding out for a Ferrari. Chris | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 483 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris, check out www.f1-sales.com. They have a respectable inventory of F1 cars, mostly Benetton. Definitely some history there! Plus, the Schumacher factor bridges the gap to Ferrari... | ||
| David Albright (Dalbright)
Member Username: Dalbright Post Number: 370 Registered: 2-2001 |
How about looking in Europe. Some of the pricing may be a bit better. Here's a nice F40 with 700+hp ready to race: http://www.carclassic.com/html/BR56.htm others race cars can be seen at: http://www.carclassic.com/html/RECENTRACINGFERRARI.htm | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 361 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ben, I have been driving the Formula Dodge and R/T 2000 sequential gearbox open wheel cars for 3 years, at several tracks around the US with good results. I have an excellent driving coach and I understand I am not Schumi. The F1 cars are scarey, I know I will never be ready to drive those cars at anything approaching 100% (30%?) The Tasman F2 car is about the same as a Formula Mazda in size with just a bit more HP, not much though. I feel confident I can drive that car at 60 -75% without killing myself. (did not say I would not spin a few times) I agree that if I was only inteested in racing, Formula Mazda or a Toyota spec racer is a great way to go, I have looked into these. But, I am a FERRARI collector, not a Mazda collector, I want a car with a history. Ben, I may get to the end of this and say these cars are not for me, but my favorite quote is; "I regret the things I didn't do more than the things I did do" so I will research some more, I will take advice from my friends on Ferrarichat and then I will make my decision. thanks, Chris | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1304 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ha, i blacked out on the Spiral on Nitro at six flags in New jersey yesterday. Nitro is the tallest, fastest coaster in the NE. The first drop is 250ft straight down, 80+ mph. It was so much fun. The spiral part is about 5 seconds of high g's. I dont know 2g's feel like, so i cant comment, but i woiuld gues it was 4 g's. I didnt actually black out, but everything got dim and it the speeds were higher i would have. The 2nd time on it (it wsa a monday, the lin ewas 10 minutes long) this didnt happen, why could this be? I dont mean to thread hijack, but blacking out is wierd and i can imagine how scary it would be if you are actually controlling a vehicle, be it a car or plane. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
New member Username: Artherd Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Chris, I really don't recomend that you step right into an F1 of any year (but especially anything pre-1990s.) Withought spending a year or seven owning and racing a smaller open-wheel (several good suggestions, Toyota Atlantics, and Formula Mazda. These cars are still plenty fast enough to kill you like that, and are an absolute *SCREAM* to drive.) A genuine F1 car can turn hard enough to *black you out* from blood loss... (4+ Gees at speed.) Unfortunately, Ferrari never really made what you want, a reliable F2/F3 type car. I would take that Mazda/Toyo, paint it FERRARI RED, toss some emblems on, and go at it for a while. It won't cost $millions, and it is just *INSANE* on the track. You'll still be saying "HOLEY CHRIST ON TOAST I'M TAKING THIS TURN FAST" when you're entering the next turn, after blasting down a 1/2mile straight. I know one driver who likes to sing opera to keep himself calm, and collected. Best! Ben | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 360 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jens, thank you, I emailed them, so I will wait to see what happens. Sounds like a great excuse to go to Germany! I have found a 166F2 Tasman, one of only 7 built, and it is in the US. I talked to the owner today, a very nice man. I have to go see if I fit, these cars are small and at 5' 11" I am at the extreme end on height (we will not bring up my weight). I love the hunt! I will keep everybody posted. | ||
| Jens Haller (Jh280774)
New member Username: Jh280774 Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2001 |
Hello Chris, If you should be looking for formula one Ferraris I can really recommend you Modena Motorsports in Germany. They have so many original formula one ferraris with real race history. That goes from the F300 from Schumacher back to formula one cars in the sixties (like the original Jacky Ickxs car etc. etc.). I know Uwe Meissner and his team since he is also the owner of Maranello Motors which is my local Ferrari dealer. They are absolute professionals. Perhaps you take a look at their website: www.modena-motorsport.de which is even available in english. They have organised a meeting in Spa last month where I took part as well. There you could see about 20(!!!) Formula One Ferraris from the F300 back to the car in which Ascari won the championship 1952 and 1953. They were all raced there allthough the F300 broke down two times. It was an great event (Even one of your "beloved" 333SP was there!)but the costs for these race cars are really stunning. Anyway perhaps you take a look (Shipping costs from Germany to USA should be the smaller part of the bill I guess!). Hope I could help a bit. Con saluti cordialissimi, Jens Haller | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 359 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob, I prefer Black letters on a yellow background. I would love to discuss ASG, e mail me at [email protected] | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1891 Registered: 12-2000 |
Chris, Sorry to hijack the thread, but I don't have your email at work and I have a few questions... 1) I just got a call from a Dawn? at Autosport Gallery. I wondered what the new structure at ASGKC was with Reese not there or any other info I need to know. She said Chris was still there and that they would still honor the 6 month advertising deal I struck with Reese. Please put a good word in for us and I'll also be in KC the first two weeks of August and will stop in to ASG. 2) I can't afford two different color combinations for the FerrariChat.com window banners. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you preferred the Black letters on Yellow or Yellow letters on Black? I think the other good one is White letters on Red. It will cost about $700 total for 50 of them, I'll sell them through the online store at cost plus shipping. If I order tomorrow, it will take 3 weeks to get them. That will hopefully be before your track day. Please advise. Email if you prefer. Thanks, rob | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 358 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rob, thanks for your input. I really want a car I can take to Ferrari club events, therefore, I am not interested in any other race car that is not a Ferrari. Rob can attest that even my golf cart is fly yellow with sheilds! I found a Tasman Formula 2 car with 2 engines today, I may fly out and take a look this weekend, I'll let you know............ | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1889 Registered: 12-2000 |
Pics of some 308 GTB "M's"... http://www.r-design.net/308/gallery.htm I think they all look really good. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1888 Registered: 12-2000 |
It's also spelled "Millechiodi" I think. I believe they are in charge of the new 360 GT too. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1085 Registered: 9-2001 |
yeah one of the sites has a 512 lm - those are nice | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1886 Registered: 12-2000 |
Everyone keeps naming cars that aren't Ferraris. For fun and competition and very affordable, Spec. Miata racing is hard to beat, which is one little step up from what I do with Spec. RX7's. Anyway, if you want a solid and fun Ferrari track car that has one foot stepping into the racing world, besides the obvious challenge cars, 80's Michelotti built 308's and 512's have history, they're reasonably priced, have safety mods, fun to track, but it also opens up some historic racing opportunities. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1290 Registered: 6-2001 |
its a tough game, i just wish i had 3DFx, which is the 3D support. its prety much not used anymore, so i dont have it. It is a hard game though. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2002 |
Im a HUGE Grand Prix Legends sim fan! This is not a game folks, its a real simulation. Its by far the closest I have ever felt to really driving in a computer game/sim. 1200lb car, 400hp, no airodynamic devices and skinny/treaded tires make these cars BEASTS to drive. the game even models the full 14 mile Nurburgring! I race in a league with 18 other car nuts online. Its a real hoot! | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 146 Registered: 4-2002 |
The SRX-7 is built on a carbon composite body that incorporates a chin spoiler, polished stainless steel bumpers, hood scoop, ground effects, rear diffuser, taillights and side scoop. There are three engine options, the "stock" engine is a Mazda RX-7 turbo rotary engine. Turbo, intercooler, stainless steel exhaust and air filter upgrades for 350 HP @ 7000 RPM. Or a T-04 (single) turbo, 13b pumping out 400 HP engine. Or, opt for the ultimate, a 600 HP, 3-rotor 20b turbo engine. Imagine any of these in a car that weighs 1545 lbs. (Wow!) Complete Technical Specifications can be found here. TurnKey kits start at $64,500. There were 12 produced in 2001. Stock Viper is 7.5 And that 600 HP Super 7 is almost at 2.5 For perspective, FORMULA 1 = 1300/875 = 1.5 ZX12 sports bike is 540 pounds wet, 690 pounds with 150 pound rider, 181 crank hp (I'm sure the car hp #s ain't rwhp), and you get 3.81 lbs/hp. Kawi estimates the Ram-Air system will yield close to 200 crank hp at higher speeds, so 690/195 = 3.54 lb/hp at higher speeds. Talk about a track car | ||
| Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member Username: Goggles_pisano Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wow, a Tasman series Ferrari would be too cool! In the meanwhile, you should get yourself a driving wheel and pedals for your computer and locate a copy of "Grand Prix Legends" from Papyrus/Sierra Sports. It was made in 1997, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to locate a copy. Basically, the game is a simulation of the 1967 Formula 1 season with all of the cars (except Honda and Cooper, whose names have been altered) and the tracks of that season. And yes, the Ferrari 312 is included with this. You can find the game here for 5 Pounds UK. Sure, it's not the real thing, but you do get a 312 to race against Hill, Clark, Stewart, Surtees, Gurney and others without having to shell out for another trailer, more tires, storage for parts, etc. A nice time-waster until you pick up the real thing...  | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 357 Registered: 2-2002 |
You and me both. I'm about 7 million dollars short of being a millionaire at the moment. | ||
| Tim Hogan (Tojo)
New member Username: Tojo Post Number: 49 Registered: 4-2002 |
Chris, here's another line of thought for you. Have you thought of a WRC car. I know the class isn't as popular to you guys in the USA as it is here, but the cars are absolutely awesome. One of my friends has a Lancia Stratos, it's an 800kg car and is powered by the Dino 206 or 246, depending on the cars history ie. raced or built for homologation. With the right setup these go very fast have great handling and are great fun on dirt or tarmac. My mates car accelarates faster than any 355, and with some small steering and braking mods handles better as well. The car was wrc champion 74-76 and will hold it's value also. There's one I know of for sale with race history somewhere in europe for 250k euro's I think. Other WRC cars of note are the group B cars from the 80's. These cars were truly out of control. The Lancia 037 rallye was turbo'ed with a supercharger to take up the turbo lag, worth about $80-100K? and also the Ford RS200 evo, which is still in the Guiness book of records for the fastest 0-100kmh at 3.02 secs. Another fast car and a great handler. You could probaly get your hands on all of these cars for the price of a 333 or an F1 car and have a heap of driving variety to compliment your other F cars, and they are great talking points because you have something really different to everyone else. That being said, I still understand the red mist of Ferrari legend and it's power over us all. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 355 Registered: 3-2002 |
Bill, that would be cool! but I am a million dollars short of being a millionare! | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 355 Registered: 2-2002 |
Chris: Just go for a Dino 206 SP. You already have a picture of one on the garage wall. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Intermediate Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2451 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am the high bidder on the 250GTO  The reserve was not met though  | ||
| Charles Byrd (Vogel)
New member Username: Vogel Post Number: 49 Registered: 6-2001 |
I haven't read all of the posts, but I thought I would through in my 2cents. If you want a car to race, check with Panoz at Road Atlanta. They build some nice cars that can be taken straight to the track, and they will build to suit, to an extent, and the cars are gorgeous. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 220 Registered: 4-2001 |
Chris, check http://www.carclassic.com/html/RACINGFERRARI.htm and auto da corsa at http://www.autoluce.com/ Not much but at least something. Ciao Peter | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 354 Registered: 3-2002 |
We have 3 briggs karts, Margay chassis' and 4 Mac Minerelli 80cc Shifters. We race them here at the ranch, so I will dust them off soon, good practice, so I think I will keep them. But if you are ever in Kansas City come by we can race them here at the house. Chris | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 344 Registered: 4-2001 |
Chris, now about those 5 dust collecting karts... planning on doing anything with them? =D | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 134 Registered: 3-2002 |
Want to sell any of the Karts. I was thinking about getting in to karts. Have you thought about a CAV GT-40 or a ERA GT-40. You could put a Crate ford motor with 600 hp, and have a blast. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 353 Registered: 3-2002 |
Terry, your help has been major, I hope we get to run around a race track together some day! Dereck Bell was my first driving coach, he is the one "celebrity" I like to say I have met. I am not sure I have met a nicer person. I was at Pebble Beach last year and Dereck saw me and walked over to me and said hi, I am a nobody in this car world, but he he made me feel very welcome. To be able to own a car he drove would be incredible. I have his telephone number, but have never had a real reason to call him, this may be my chance to get the real story on these cars. Chris | ||
| Paul Prideaux (Paul355c)
Junior Member Username: Paul355c Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2001 |
I have also been considering a purchase of an open wheel project car. My 355 Challenge is great but Terry si right. This is addictive... Check out www.f1-sales.com | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2002 |
A 166F2 Tasman car would be AWESOME! If you can find one of those.... your a lucky man indeed! I would love to drive one. It will never happen though (Im 6'2" and 240lb). I know every Vintage racing organization on the planet would welcome you with open arms! Can you say Goodwood?!?!?! This may fit very well with you desires too. Many of the vintage groups are not so focused on ultimate competition and its more "gentlemans" racing. The sports prototype groups and Porsche dominated groups seem to be all out serious but some of the formula groups (like where this car would run) seem to be pretty laid back. Could be a perfect fit. Also seems your plenty experienced for it. Do you think it would work for track days? I may be nervous about driving that on the track with other guys in F40's, challenge cars etc. on Ferrari track days. You never thought a Ferrari was HUGE until you saw one from the seat of a F2 car! It could also be tough for drivers in other cars to see you perhaps? I dont know.... I guess you wouldnt really know until you tried it. Be prepared for Frank to call it a Dino ;) They have the Dino derived V6 engine. I tell ya, to drive a car that Ickx and Bell once raced, THAT would be incredible! GO FOR IT! | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 352 Registered: 3-2002 |
Terry, I found some info on the 1968 166F2 (246 Tasman) Amon, Ickx, Dereck Bell car. Really cool, very small, but this would be something I would be interested in. Cavallino states there was one 1966 246 Tasman built ($200,000 - $300,000) and 3 1968-1971 cars built also at $200,000 to $300,000. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1083 Registered: 9-2001 |
Chris maybe put this badboy on the track http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1845835915 | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 351 Registered: 3-2002 |
Terry, I have done some Skip Barber racing, with good results. I really think you are correct in your thoughts and I respect them 100%. However, Tisosi hit the nail on the head, I love Ferrari's. Somewhere there is a Ferrari race car that is not a converted street car I can get in and drive on open track days. I do not know what that car is yet, however. I bought shifter Karts and had a lot of fun playing with them, then I started racing. Well, racing and playing are two different things. I was mad when things did not go well and it took the fun out driving the Karts. Now i have 7 Karts sitting in my garage that have not been touched in 5 months. I may find in the end that what I want and what is available is not compatable......... | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 152 Registered: 4-2002 |
A Tasman car would be pretty dang expensive. The Tasman series was basically an off season series in New Zealand where top level racers went to make some money during the winter. Factories entered F1 cars with smaller engines or F2 cars generally. I know Chris Amon drove a Ferrari Tasman car with a V6 in 1969. I would imagine these would be a total blast to drive! When I read your post, my initial reaction was of how dangerous those cars were but the more I think of it.... they are GORGEOUS racecars and would be INCREDIBLE fun to drive! I would kill for one.... Think Slightly scaled down 312. It would be fast, but if you ran it on period correct tires I doubt it would lap much if any faster than your F40. It would handle better, but the tires would limit braking etc. Just remember this. These 60's and 70's Formula cars killed alot of drivers. I believe of the entire F1 grid of drivers who started the 1967 season, 40% were dead within 5 years. You can make the car safer with a modern fuel cell and better roll-bar and fire system. But if you bang it hard against something.... its going to hurt! Still... those are some incredible cars. Would perhaps be my pick  | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 100 Registered: 12-2001 |
Have you considered an IRL car? Two year old models are under 30K with engine(some sell in the 15k-20K range). They're designed to be cheap to operate use a small 3.5 litre v-8, so it could likely be replaced with a Ferrari V-8 without too many issues. Weight difference would be negligible. It would have less power, but (1) that could be increased and (2) less power might be a good thing and would still be better than any road car. BTW, Saw a guy in Japan who converted a modern Formula One car to a street driver-now that's cool! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 151 Registered: 4-2002 |
Chris, I would urge you to be very careful with the track day and not racing idea. I started this way and have seen MANY others do the same. You want to do track days and have fun. Then you start comparing your lap times to others. Then you start bench racing over beers. Next thing you know youve done the Barber school and are dying to actually race! TRUST ME: Its like foreplay and sex, one leads to the other. You dont want to end up with lots of $$$ in a car that has no racing class available or is uncompetitive if you do decide you want to race. An F40 is clearly a very fast car. A 333sp or F1 is in another league. Be careful, you dont want to get hurt. Consider this also. One of the best instructors I ever had pointed out that getting a high HP car when your still relatively new is a bad idea because it hurts your learning. One fact about driving is that HP covers up errors. You can get away with tons of things in a big power car that in a low power car would kill your laptimes. Thus, learning in a low HP car generally will make you a better driver later when driving big HP. If you just want to do track days, this doesnt much matter though. Tino is very right in his comment about big HP vintage racing. Massive amounts of $$$ being blown there for a relatively low bang return. I wouldnt do it. At the last Mitty here at Road Atlanta, they had GTP cars gridded with Cooper Monaco's. Insane. Toyota Atlantic is a fantastic bang for the buck. Another perhaps even better option is Formula Mazda. New cars ready to race are only $45K. They have race spec 13B rotary engines that will last 3-4 years between rebuilds. 250HP+ in a 1200lb car. Racing slicks and full wings. These guys lap Road Atlanta in under 1.26! Thats in line with top level Pro GT2 and GT3 cars that cost $350K+. They are also supposed to be very forgiving cars (for a formula car... everything is relative). It would take a very experienced driver pushing fairly hard to lap the 333SP faster than a Formula Mazda. It would be faster, but $400K faster? for way less than the 333, you could get a 360 Challenge and a Formula Mazda! HAve track days and full racing covered... Paint the Formula Mazda Ferrari red and put scuderia shields on it. Im sure everyone would get a kick out of that! | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 350 Registered: 3-2002 |
I was talking with my mechanic, Chris Hill, he has suggested a Ferrari "Tasman" formula car that were raced in Australia in the 60's. I know very little about these cars, Andrew, Tino, Terry? anybody know about these cars? Chris | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 480 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris, since Tino used my suggestions of FAtlantic or CART cars, perhaps if you're considering the 333, then instead you can look at a more entry-level prototype like a Lola or Radical. Might not be enough car, but your investment would be lessened. Then you can buy an F1 show chassis to park next to the Ferraris. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 349 Registered: 3-2002 |
Terry, I need this kind of advice, I have just enough track time to be stupid. While I have no desire to actually "race" these cars, I do enjoy tracking them. As I work through this process I may decide I need Tim's 360C. But I like to think outloud about this, I have come to respect the advice I get on here and I think most you know I am not trying prove anything by talking about this. I do like the idea of buying cars that will hold their value. 348 and 355 Challenge cars are cheap and getting cheaper, that is good if you plan on throwing them away, bad if you want to hold them. I really appreciate your thoughts....... Chris | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1082 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think you guys are ignoring the fact that Chris is an F-car nut and he wants and F car racer to add to his stable of F40 and 355 and 246 dino. Sound like the 333 is the way to go | ||
| Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member Username: Bboxer Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2001 |
This in just my opinion. Biggest mistake an aspiring-can-afford-it-I'm-over-thirty racing enthusiast can make is to go the vintage Big-Time racing F1, CART or recent SCar way. Too much money, too much hassle and too little return (excluding EGO feeding). If you're serious about speed and can't be a pro racer, see if you can fit a formula car and get yourself a recent F. Atlantic chassis with modern Toyota powerplant (aka Toyota Atlantic now only stepping stone to CART). More modern technology than most(even more than Champ cars), 1000lb/250HP, aerodynamics, plenty of support and relatively low cost. Look for 90's RALT, Reynard and SWIFT vintage. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 150 Registered: 4-2002 |
You can find an mid to early 70's Formula One car for less than $250K. I have seen a fair number of these for sale. They are nowhere near as complicated, generally use a Cosworth DFV engine usually slightly de-tuned so it will last a good while. The tires can be bought off the shelf. A mid 70's F1 car is still a 1200lb car with a 450hp engine (assuming its de-tuned). Im talking SERIOUSLY fast. Probably faster acceleration than a 333sp. It would not lap as fast because the 333 has far more sophisticated brakes and airodynamics. However, it would be cheaper to run. You wont find a mid 70's Ferrari F1 car for realistic money... but I think limiting your thinking to only a Ferrari is, well, too limiting. For example, rather than a 333sp I would get a Porsche 962. Less money, more reliable, just as fast (or faster) and there are more places you can race it (PCA and Vintage). Another note: I dont know how much racing experience you have, but a '70's F1 car is CRAZY fast and extremely dangerous. Just look at how many of the F1 drivers from that period survived... Also even a 333sp or 962 is an extreme car and very dangerous. Bob Akins recent death should be a HUGE reminder of this. I think anyone experienced with these types of cars would agree that lots of experience is a pre-requsite. If you have been racing high HP cars for years... go for it! If not, you may want to consider something less likely to bite. My next car will be a formula ford. Only 110hp, but in an 1100lb car it still does 0-60 in under 4 sec and well over 1G in lateral acceleration. I see Formula Atlantic cars for under $60K. Do you want just a track day car, or do you want something you can actually race? If racing is what you want, you should look at choosing a class and then pick the best car for the class. You dont want to end up with a very cool, fun but back of the pack car. Anyhow.. Good luck, hope you get to drive the 333! | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 158 Registered: 1-2002 |
What about a 360C, or 360 n-GT car? | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 348 Registered: 3-2002 |
OK, I really want a track car, something that was always designed as race car. I first thought of a 333SP, but they are just bit out of reach, unless I sold something, which I am reluctant to do. Then it was suggested (Ferrarichat) I consider a Formula 1 car. OK, I am open to new ideas. I started looking and quickly found that very few have survived, and even fewer are available. I do not want anything other than a Ferrari, I found some from the late 80's, around $250,000. Ok, expensive, but possible. Well, nothing cheap about a cheap Formula 1 car. Tires, handmade, $3,000 each and they last only one track session. Engine, maximum run time: 3 hours before a complete tear down is required. etc etc etc. I was told this era of cars are simply not driven, just a static display piece, that is why they are "cheap". So, these are not a good choice for me, I want to drive it, as often as I can. Late model Formula 1, $500,000+ but a bit more driveable. Tires are off the rack, engine can go a little longer, but still an issue. Damn, need Bill Gates' money! Back to GT cars..... I am back to a 333SP, Symbolic is going to bring a 333SP to Buttonwillow on August 20th for some track time. I am interested to see how this car drives, I have driven sequential gear boxes before, so I should be ok. Anyway, I thought this was interesting, for those of you that can make Buttonwillow, this should be fun. |