| Author |
Message |
Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member
Username: Rjklein4470
Post Number: 137
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 10:28 pm: | |
I have been wanting a GT-40 for a long time and I truly think it is the only car that you could really put some miles on. The car that I was looking at had the original motor in the can, and currently has a 351. This type of car will not lose value, and you could put miles on it. You may pay more up front, but it should hold value. Currently one without race history could be had for about the same price as a 575 |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 422
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 10:08 pm: | |
Don: my sentiments exactly, although the best "investment" among the more "modest" cars may have been the 250 pf coupe, which seems to have gone scarce and gotten more expensive. (But, it is a 12,two seater, looks pretty good in the flesh and was even cheaper than the gtc/4 not so long ago.Of course, parts and work put it right up there with the best). |
Don Vollum (Donv)
New member
Username: Donv
Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 3:21 pm: | |
What's your definition of "modest" for a second Ferrari? There might be some options in a vintage car. For instance, $130k (or less), would get you a nice Daytona.
Or, for less than $100k, you could get a 330GTC and have what's regarded as one of the best all-around Ferraris ever. If you want a little exclusivity, you could find a 365GTC for not much more.
Either a Daytona or a 330GTC would be a car that you could put some miles on and have fun with, and would be different than the cars you've had in the past.
If "modest" means under $50k, then you'd probably be limited to a 365GTC/4 to stay the vintage category, still a neat car but perhaps not cool enough. |
ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 205
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 9:23 am: | |
whart; i wouldn't sell the barchetta unless you got a killer price for it at the moment. as the others have said, just keep it and wait. this may well become a self fulfilling prophesy since i doubt if there are too many people currently throwing big money at that car (so you won't get you price), and by the time you might get somebody to pay it, you will probably want to keep it yourself (your situation may have gotten even better, and/or barchetta values will have risen.) |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 414
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 6:02 pm: | |
thanks for the feedback. I didn't buy the car as an investment, in part, cause i put miles on all of them. Most barchettas on the market are "flips" with delivery miles. At the same time, i don't have the bread to just stash it for the next ten years and buy other ferraris (well, maybe i could afford a modest one as a second) but that's not my style. I have been flirting with the idea of an older car, but i don't want a superbigbucks ferrari for precisely the same reason: i want to drive it, not just sit on it, and frankly, unless i got some killer deal,which is unlikely, i don't think spending big money on a car is a good investment. I get in these moods sometimes. Thanks for humoring me... |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 369
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 1:03 pm: | |
I don't believe that a 575 convertible will affect 550 Barchetta prices because it will be a true convertible. Rarity and the quirky nature of its fair-weather-only design will separate the 550 from the rest of the pack and demand a premium. They may not be as valuable as the 365GTS (122 made) or the NART Spyder (10 made), but they should do all right. |
J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
New member
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 41
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 1:02 pm: | |
As an investment,(yes I know we should not look at Ferraris as investments) the 360 Spider has a better return on the original MSRP. I spoke with Scottsdale Ferrari and they said they could re-sell 360 spiders "all day long" for $250K. That's about 70K over list. The 550 Barchettas are not getting 70K over their MSRP |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 816
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 12:45 pm: | |
I think the next all new V12 2-seater might be available as a real convertible. Perhaps that will have an effect on future 550 Barchetta value. There were only 75 US-spec F512M's. Prices on them hasn't changed much though.
I also don't see how the 360 could be compared to a GTO. An explanation is required.
Anyone care to guess how much an Enzo would cost on the secondary market? $1 Million+? |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1327
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 12:23 pm: | |
I also see the barchetta becoming very valuble. Didnt only 60 or so come to the US? |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 318
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 12:16 pm: | |
with all due respect, i don't really see how 360s could possibly be compared to 250 GTOs in the future in any meaningful way. you're talking about an 8 cylinder car of which there will be 12,000 to 15,000 and a classic of which tere are forty-something (right?). it's an entirely different exercise. 360s are fine, but it's baseball -vs- football.
doody. |
Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 189
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 11:18 am: | |
Would guess that a U.S. '98 w/14-15k would be a 130k car at this point. As others have stated, 550's aren't strong of late and they don't suffer mileage well at resale.
550's long term may suffer due to styling (not everyone's favorite, though one of mine), and somewhat lacking engine note. Again, subjective. But all things visceral count big-time in F-Car land. Biggest plus, long term, is it may be the best all-around Ferrari road car (dynamically) built thus far. Barchettas will continue to be collectible (barring a run of 575 drop tops) down the road, IMO.
360 Dinos, on the other hand, stand to be among the most collectible of all Ferraris due, in large part, to the twin-grill nose design. Were the grills actually non-functional, 360's may perhaps rival 250 GTO's in long-term value. Keep in mind, I'm no market expert. Just basing my take on what Enzo would've thought. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1139
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 10:19 am: | |
the 550 coupe and 550 barchetta will end up to be far more valuable in the future than the 360 coupe or spider. When the 308 first came out people were paying more for them than they were paying for a Daytona. My how that has changed. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 368
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 10:15 am: | |
I agree that the 360 Spider and Barchetta are not comparable, the analogy was meant to show that asking prices and selling prices don't always correlate. In any event, this looks like the wrong time to sell because of a glut of Barchettas for sale at the moment. Better to wait.
Ferrari has built an interesting investment strategy for a select group of insiders. Only certain people are offered hot cars, they buy them and then sell them later for a huge profit to the lesser mortals who aren't let in on the scam. Kind of an insider trading scenario if you ask me. |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 340
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 10:05 am: | |
In the black that you've gone for Whart, that 550 BP will be a collecters car in years to come. I can't see many people chopping current 550 Maranellos into barchettas - I think worldwide production is 448.
Even though the 360 Spyder is extremely rare at the mo' it can't really compare with the 550 BP. Excluding the F50, what was the last open V12? |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 9:37 am: | |
All valuable cars are rare, but not all rare cars are valuable. Ferrari made more Daytonas than it did 365GTC4s. Yet the Daytonas are more valuable. A lot of cars are rare because no one wanted them much when they were new such as the 400/412 series, the Mondial series ect.. They are very rare but not very valuable. The 550 barchetta on the other hand is rare and desirable and will most likely be a good car to hang on to for a decade or two. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 367
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 9:15 am: | |
Manu has a good point. In the Ferrari world, rarity is king. It all comes down to how you want to use your cars and what you can afford. |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 339
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 4:38 am: | |
Whart - do not sell your car - hang on to it FOREVER.
I think that it may become as valuable in the future (and we're talking many years) as the original factory Daytona Spyders. (not the cut downs.) |
Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member
Username: Rrm
Post Number: 125
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 7:49 pm: | |
Yes Eric this one and s2k are my favorite forums. I was just kidding around with you. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 366
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 7:24 pm: | |
William:
You really don't know what a Barchetta is worth until one has been sold. There are several listed for around $399k, but what are buyers paying? The problem is that we all know what asking prices are but very few people know what selling prices are. It's a lot like the 360 Spider market. Lots af cars at $260k+, but they remain advertised month after month, so are they really selling at that? It seems that there are already a half dozen or more Barchettas on the market, so maybe you should wait. I'd think about calling a guy like Bill Noon at Symbolic and see what he says. He has a Barchetta for sale. See what he offers for yours and it should give you an idea of what real prices are like.
As to what to replace it with, outside of the F40, F50 and 288 GTO you seem to have already gone through most of the modern age Ferraris. If you aren't getting the thrill from the modern cars you might talk to Steve Patterson about what it is like to own a 275 GTB. Yeah, you have the parts and service headaches, but maybe it's better to try something different rather than go back to a BB 512 and start all over again...
Daytonas are nice too, and they cost less, but I hear that the steering is very heavy. |
Eric (Eze8199)
New member
Username: Eze8199
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 7:12 pm: | |
Thanks for all of the help. I'm not getting a 550, but my uncle is considering it.
Robert, how do you know I have an s2k? Are you on the s2000 forum? |
Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member
Username: Rrm
Post Number: 124
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 5:20 pm: | |
Eric just get an 02 s2k! |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1325
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 12:52 pm: | |
I always thought you could get up to 4 for it. Dont sell it just yet, its a beautiful car. Its like a moving piece art you can actually have fun with. At the concours you asid you always wanted an F40, thats a thought. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 12:42 pm: | |
the barchettas are going for high 2s low threes? the 2002s can be had for mid to high 3s????? |
Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member
Username: Cmparrf40
Post Number: 365
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 12:40 pm: | |
Eric, I think $135,000 to $140,000 is all the money for that car. I was quoted $145k for one with 8,000 miles 2 months ago. |
David Albright (Dalbright)
Member
Username: Dalbright
Post Number: 371
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 12:34 pm: | |
I was at FoW and the salesman said that 550's are to be had for around $140 for the earlier models in great shape. |
ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member
Username: Titanium360
Post Number: 83
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 11:49 am: | |
WM, Let me know if you are looking to sell your barchetta? Also are you going to the Hampton Rally on august 3rd? |
bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 589
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 11:45 am: | |
eric...is this a car you are interested in?? get a car fax done first..
whart..im not familiar with 550s, cant comment..only testarossas..
have a great day, you all |
Eric (Eze8199)
New member
Username: Eze8199
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 11:43 am: | |
By "good" I meant that there are no mechanical or any other big problems, thats all. |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 412
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 11:42 am: | |
Bruce, i think those prices date from the days when World.com stock was soaring. 550 prices have dropped considerably in the past year and a half. My conservative take: clearly under 150k US dollars, probably less, for a US model which has been serviced. Far less if a Euro car or if considerable money needs to be put into the car to make it pristine (including recalls on wheels, etc.)
Just out of idle curiousity, what do you think my barchetta is worth? My "year" is up, and although i don't know what i'd buy if i sold it, the thought has passed through my mind... |
bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 588
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 11:35 am: | |
go to ferrari chat "model list" what do you mean by "good" condition?? |
Eric (Eze8199)
New member
Username: Eze8199
Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 11:31 am: | |
What would be a good price for a 1998 550 in good condition with 14000 - 15000 miles? Thanks |