| Author |
Message |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 356
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 5:46 am: | |
Hmmm. Sounds plausible guys BUT..... how much difference would an additional 3000 miles make when selling the car. They'd be risking their entire reputation for not a whole lot of money - not to mention what they'd be doing would be illegal.
Ross - did I tell you I had a somewhat heated discussion with the Salesman yesterday? I moaned about this tach/speedo thing and he did apologise. I didn't have the confidence to blast the car. What I really didn't want was a late-rev power explosion to really catch me out and start the car wobbling.
Like you I'd like the opportunity to really THRASH the car on a lengthened test drive.
On a slightly different note - the V12 in that car is quite an engine, but then that maybe because I've been 'out of the saddle' for a few. Ferrari do need to insert that VISCERAL element back into their V12s.....
The most amazing thing about the whole experience is how the car just loses its immense size when you drive it.... just not a problem. |
Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
Junior Member
Username: Jammy
Post Number: 53
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 5:11 am: | |
My thoughts exactly Ross! Said this to Manu yesterday; could be the only way you can avoid miles racking up is if you disable the whole binnacle. Didn't he say that all functions are controllable from a PC and that the car data logs everything? Throughout the life of the car? Be interesting to know whether the car was still data logging on the test drives. |
ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 211
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 4:05 am: | |
after thinking about it a bit, don't you guys find it strange that the speedo and tach were not working in that car we drove? i bet that they unhooked the cable and use that as their demonstrator (which is why the seat didn't feel so tight either), they don't clock up any miles, then they sell it later on as a demo car but with about 1000 miles on it instead of the actual 4000......
i may just be too suspicious but why else would a car fresh out of a service have that problem.... |
Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member
Username: Mr_0011
Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 1:11 pm: | |
You guys have to admit, Lambos look cool. hehe |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 348
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 5:30 am: | |
Guys - I haven't driven either a 4200GT OR a Diablo 6.0.
There was a black Diablo GT in there which Ross quite accurately described as "Ghetto" but I secretly loved it.
I would still love to try a late model Diablo. |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 280
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 5:00 pm: | |
Not sure on the exact construction...but my little ferrets in Maranello & elsewhere tell me to look for that motor, with a lot more power, in an upgraded 360 (420??) Modena "soon". This, apparently, will be Ferrari's V-8 foundation going forward. This has also been reported elsewhere as speculation. |
Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member
Username: Mr_0011
Post Number: 84
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 4:42 pm: | |
Thanks Dave. I thought it was pretty good. My friend has a BMW M Coupe and he wants a Porka, but not a Boxster. So... I'll tell him to look into the Maser. BTW, the V8 in there is the 360 motor correct? Just with 4v/cylinder instead of 5, and it displaces 4.2L. I heard somewhere that it's a different motor, but the specs make me think "reworked torque full 360 motor." |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 279
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 3:56 pm: | |
001, I have driven the coupe on the street & track several weekends ago. It was an F1 transmission, for better & worse. Better: great downshifting under left foot braking on track meant more concentration went to the line & less to heel & toe. Worse: just like the 360, it is clunky on the street. I would choose the regular 6 speed, IMO.
Other impressions: wonderful sounds! Why can't Ferraris sound like this? Wonderful, torquey motor--really pulls from everywhere (reminds me of my 550's V-12). Superb seats. Superb build quality. Superb A/C. Thank goodness the navigation system is optional--I hate those things, esp. in a car like this. Car was softer than a 360 (obviously) but still did quite well on track. SUPERB brakes--I think they come directly from the 360 parts bin.
All in all, a VERY nice car. With the stick shift & no nav system or other doo-dad firvolities, quite a value for the $$$, and probably as good a daily driver as a 911 Porsche. |
Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member
Username: Mr_0011
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 3:23 pm: | |
Manu, have you driven the Maserati 4200 GT/ Coupe yet? If you have can you tell us what you thought? Looks like a fantastic machine IMHO.
As for Lambos. Well, I've always like them, but I'd take a Porsche over it. |
Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
Junior Member
Username: Jammy
Post Number: 52
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 3:21 pm: | |
I believe our impressions are pretty consistent. Here are mine:
Styling
I think this is a love it or hate it car. Definitely works best in dark blue or black. Seeing the Murcielago parked up next to the Diablo VT for washing illustrated how the Diablo is a more flowing design. Dark colours give the Murcielago shape more flow. What brought it home to me was going over to look at the 456M and 575MM after spending 20 mins looking over the Murcielagos. In comparison the Ferrari's just oozed class & elegance; grown-up cars.
Interior
Very clean, basic design. Meatiness of gear lever belies ease of changing gear, which as Manu said, is very easy indeed. Gear lever is about an inch too long (high) which otherwise would be level with your arm resting on the armrest. Having said that, interior hardly shouts 'supercar'and didn't feel that special a place to be in. It's good, it's just not great. The 575 is in a different league. Moreover, I didn't think I had that fat an ass, but those seats really hugged my hips.
Handling & performance
This is one grunty motor. Power delivery feels similar to 550 but not as snappy as the 360, though on paper the Murcielago should smoke both. Rev counter was not working so difficult to assess. Felt like power was chiming in at ca. 4K. Took it up to the rev limiter once and it sounded marvellous at the higher revs. Never hade any problem with the throttle or smooth gear changes; it's more tricky in a manual 360 so this was easy by comparison. The only difficulty was in pulling away from rest since the engine seems to bog down easily.
Never really pushed it around a corner, but I swear you could feel the torque switching between the wheels, though this could be my imagination. Really did feel like the cornering balance was changing *within* the corner. One thing they have sorted out is the damping, which is exemplary.
Overall, this car felt pretty normal to drive as the guys said. Steering, clutch & brakes all felt well sorted. No real supercar cues other than the engine, and the throb from the drivetrain transmitted through your seat back. Particularly impressive was the heat management- stuck in traffic the water and oil temperatures didn't budge at all. Ferrari could learn from this.
I now understand the expression 'shrinks around you', because this car does. Amazingly manageable in tight spots and heavy London traffic. The most impressive instance was when I had to go onto the pavement (aka sidewalk) to get around a truck- it worked! Still not quite sure how we managed it.
Overall, this comes across as a well sorted car. I just think that Ferrari does it better in pretty much every area: prefer the exterior styling, enjoy driving them and they let you know you're in something special without being intimidating or difficult to drive.
|
ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 207
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:03 am: | |
agree with a lot of manu's opinions on the lambo. however, i actually like the styling more than the diablo, just cleaner and smoother.
the clutch is a bit ridiculous, but must admit that when i stepped back into my 512 i realized it didn't need to be that hard either...., also did not like the steering feel or the tranny.
the steering is light and overly assisted at low speeds, don't know what happens at higher speeds. the tranny is also overly easy and doesn't have enough resistance from one gear to the next, but on the other hand it makes shifting smoothe. the salesman said that the lift-off oversteer, which i experienced in 3rd gear when i gently lifted off when another car came into my lane, was due to the 4 wheel drive compensation sending power to the front. seems plausible but still didn't like it. the electronic throttle (although better than on the maserati 4200gt) is a little harder to get used to in the beginning and you can't feather the throttle as easy, but i got used to that in about 15 minutes so its liveable. the interior was simple and uncomplicated but not particularly stunning. very tight inside. felt claustrophobic at first. the seats are very tight until you have worn them in a bit. in one car i felt like a tennis ball sitting on a cup, in the other it was just snug.
the doors are not the easiest thing to negotiate but i suppose you would get used to that too.
the engine at idle sounds tame. once you get it over 4000 it comes on song and rockets the car with lots of growl inside as well. that part felt nice. i would love to drive this car on a long road trip to get to know it better....
the fit and finish was good. although, in the demonstrator the mirrors stuck a couple times when the guy was showing me how they worked. the gauges didn't work either. gotta wonder why these 'new' cars are having these issues. he said that they only build 300/year worldwide, so i imagine that it will take years to work out the kinks; and every car feels a little different than the next one....guess thats what u get with handbuilts....
over all, i still like comparable ferrari models better, and ferraris are still the better car. but if i had 10+ cars in my stable, i would try one of these for a while as well.... |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 169
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:53 am: | |
Ajay, test drive a Diablo SV. I think you will add Lambo back to your list. |
Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 197
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:47 am: | |
Thanks for the take on the Lambo, Manu. Re: 575. I've a friend whose POV I trust who has a fair bit of experience with the 550 and, more recently, 575. His take is that while the 575 is noticably more powerful, it is also somewhat softer with a tendency to wallow about a bit more than a 550 when given a dose of the business (on track). And so the gap, for him, 575 v 550, is actually quite small and less than he'd expected. Again, second hand info, but the guy has capably driven a Ferrari or two in his day. |
Ajay Mehta (Ajay)
New member
Username: Ajay
Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:44 am: | |
I am in full agreement with Manu on this one. The Murceliago made little or no impression on me. I was hoping to walk away from the test drive thinking 'Damn I've got to have one' instead I walked away thinking 'No way am I going to have one'.
With regards to:
1. Styling- Theres a thin line between being drop dead outlandish and getting it wrong completely. IMO Lambo are awarded the latter. The rear end is down right ugly (Jammy I think your of the same opinion right?)The car is too rounded on the rear quarter.
2. Interior- shite. Even the Diablo is leagues ahead on this front. The interior is well put together but lacks that 'I love sitting in this' appeal. Impression- suspiciously Audi to me.
3. Driving- Seating is a strong point on the car and the car does have the power, but you do not feel at one with the Lambo as you do with a Ferrari. Gear change a doddle, its more switch like than a click-clunk change. Visability poor, rear view-no chance.
To conclude. The appeal (or lack of) of the Lambo was not helped by a Salesman who was totally uninterested when I got into the car, gave poor replies to my answers and his idea of a test drive was a drive around the block lasting five minutes. Me, buy a car from you sir-no chance. Unlikely as it is that I decided to buy one I wouldn't buy a car from this dealer if he was the only one in the UK-oh he is!-then I'll go all the way to the factory to get one.
Remember my post about the 575 vs the Murceliago, 575 wins on all counts above. My ideal garage used to be 575, 288gto, F40 and a Lambo now its 575, F40 and 288gto. I dont need or want anything else. Yes, driving the Lambo has confirmed it - I am a Ferrari man through and through |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 198
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:33 am: | |
I'll always be a Ferrari man, but that new Lambo is pretty nice.
I still like the lines of the Diablo Roadster over the Mucielago |
ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member
Username: Titanium360
Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:24 am: | |
Manu:
Have you driven the diablo 6.0. How does it compare to F360. |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 347
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:12 am: | |
Well here they are guys:
Getting into the car is joke - headbutting the scissor door is NOT - PERIOD.
The interior is lame - maybe its Audi - maybe it's just plain dull/crap/boring- ESPECIALLY up against the 575/550 which is the best interior of any car in the world.
Styling - the Diablo is a much much cooler car to look at and sit in than the Murcielago. If you're going to build a wild car then don't compromise. The rear end of this car looks unresolved and just not satisfying and I get more looks from passers-by in a F355 than I do in this - Looks better than in pictures - but still no match for the delicate presence and CLASS of any modern Ferrari. For the poseurs - a 360 turns more heads. The only colour to get this car in is black IMO.
Driving the car is EASY and I mean - VERY easy - almost to a fault. The gearchange is less like a gearchange and more like a satisfaction-less switch. The clutch is sooo overassisted that you cannot feel the point of engagement and a Volvo sedans is heavier - annoyingly light.
You still can't see much in the car. Nothing at all about the front end bonnet and nothing much from the rear view mirror although the side mirrors work fine.
The car shrinks around you A LOT - the width is not an issue such is the ease with which the car can be driven....
Power - only felt as fast as a 550M - the extra on-paper grunt accounted for NOTHING from the drivers seat - no big deal. Well weighted brakes - nice steering - but a VERY laggy (electronically controlled) throttle which made it impossible to pull away without over revving - (I stalled it 3 times trying to be delicate). The instrument binnacle wasn't working when the demonstrator was out, making life harder still.
Cannot comment on cornering ability - no chance to judge. Others there with me said it may still be subject to lift off oversteer like old Lambos.
Add to this a salesman that was sufficiently arrogant to question my integrity when I couldn't fly-off the fly-off handbrake........ He had been very helpful up to this point but then turned - and has lost any future business from me and pretty much anyone I know... I've got nothing but abuse for this guy - he pissed me off so much in that car - just because of the F**KING handbrake -
I only just controlled myself.
I'm no journalist but if I want a Lamborghini I'll get a Diablo 6.0 or a GT. More importantly I've realised I'm a Ferrari man through and through. I'm not old so the 575M is not a "mature" choice - it's simply the best production car in the world at the moment and that's that. The Ferrari 575M is vastly superior - you sit like a man in it, not a dog - it's sweeter - and as Jammy put it, the Ferraris are SUBLIME, beautiful, classy, - not wild - the 575M is the last word in CARS - not spaceships.
Offered a 360 vs Murcielago - I'd still take the V8 Ferrari.
let's hear some reactions. (Ross, Ajay, Jammy I invite you to add to my impressions) . |
|