| Author |
Message |
Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 1:15 pm: | |
Caribe,
I purchased a 348ts from Sean Harris of Steve Harris Imports last June. We did the agreements by email. All of my questions were answered with images emailed back to me from Sean. The deal was contingent upon me flying to Salt Lake City, UT and the car being as advertised. I carried with me a check.
Sean picked me up at the airport in the 348 and we rode around for approximately three hours before I gave him the check. The 348 came with the pre-owned warranty from Ferrari.
The conclusion:
I liked Sean and he did every thing he said he would do. My experience with him was positive.
I would make one suggestion though. I believe you are from the Bay Area as I am. Go to Los Gatos Ferrari and speak with Brian at the service place in Campbell. Contract with him or Thomas McKeller to fly to Salt Lake City and inspect the car you are interested in before making the offer. You may save yourself money and headaches in the long run plus it pays to have a quality technician who is in your camp to tell you the "straight story".
Dan |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 12:42 pm: | |
Caribe:
You are proving my point the more you speak. Ralph at Ferrari of Washington did all of that for me. He had the history of the car written out. He knew all the former owners. Had the maintenance receipts of the work they did on the car and told me where to find the other receipts on the car from the former shop/dealer that worked on it. I checked the mileage on those and the repairs etc. He even told how long the car sat on his showroom floor over the years.
I agree Carfax is limited but at least it gives a reference point. I did that and the at least I was able to match up the states and mileage of the car. But there was one error that turned out to be a safety inspection person error. it was easy to find. kind of hard to have service done on the car with 9,400 miles and then inspected 30 days later with 41,000 miles. That is where having the maintenance records come in.
All depends how much time you want to spend hunting around. -- ask for a car with all records, tools etc. Previous owners names etc. then just call the previous owners. Any reputable dealer with a great car will give you that info. I got that stuff with no problem. OK I probably paid a slightly higher price but look at the time, effort and second thoughts you are going through -- to me not going through that is worth the higher price already. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 12:23 pm: | |
CarFax contains very limited information. Besides flood damage and some obviously wrong Odometer readings it is not much help. I signed up for the two month unlimited CarFax reports, and have run through it about every Testarossa advertised on the web that even resembles a good deal, and then some just to know more about what is out there. For most cars there is not even mileage information, which proves their Odometer fraud detection logic useless since it is based on the same records it pulls out. Hence, you can detect fraud yourself when looking at the mileage information when available. For others, the first record in CarFax starts well beyond the first 10,000 miles.
One thing that I found useful was knowing where the car have been titled(at least when records are available), if it has been leased, and if it has passed its emission's tests. Again, the data is normally incomplete. It just gives you a starting point from where to start tracing the history of the car. Of course, some of you might not find this important, but, IMHO, it is important to know as much as possible about the history of these cars. If it were a Toyota, a Mazda, or a BMW, perhaps it would not matter as much, but since it is a Ferrari, and given their inherent less than perfect production quality (as compared to cars as those mentioned above), and their outrageous repair fees, I believe it is most important.
In conclusion, CarFax is a very limited tool on where to start your research, but it might not mean much as a buying decision tool for most cars.
Caribe. |
Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 11:08 am: | |
Isn't it true that we really do know in our hearts that there are no "deals" and that you get what you pay for. expect the worst and shop and bargain accordingly. The only advantage of a dealer is many states have laws to protect the buyer. Know exactly what they are and how to protect your rights before shopping. On the downside, dealers are experts at selling cars, "dealerizing" them -- dressing them up so that your eyes and heart fool your brain - new paint and interior can make buyers jump at cars they would otherwise not buy. With individuals, there is know regulation and you are in court. |
ROBERTO H. (Roberto)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 10:53 am: | |
ARNALDO:
JUST HAVE THE CAR CHECKED OUT BY A GOOD MECHANIC. HOW MANY YEARS BACK ARE THE DESCREPENCIES AND HOW MANY MILES? IF IT IS REALY RECENT STAY AWAY? ALSO YOU CAN TRY CARFAX, THEY USUALY INDICIATE ANY ODOMETER FRAUD. GOOD LUCK. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 10:10 am: | |
Rick,
Odometer discrepancies among car records make me shy away from the deal.
Caribe. |
RICK ROMERO (Tr90)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2001 - 7:27 am: | |
Arnaldo:
in my opinion it is much better buying it from a private owner rather than a dealer. You can get a much better deal and don't think just because it is a dealer you are buying from that their cars are any better. What happened to your deal in New York. It sounded really good? |
Julian Pham (Julian_Blk348)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 11:45 pm: | |
I've recently purchased a 348 from place that agreed on doing a major service and would fix anything else wrong - but I had to pay up front for the agreed upon price.
Well, when the mechanic discovered that the water needed to be replaced, they backed out of the deal and I ate the cost! The deal was even in writing, but being 2,500 miles away, I was kinda helpless!
No more deals with this or that included. I am going to be buying cars as-is condition and addressing repair issues on my own term. |
Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 10:52 pm: | |
Caribe:
I suggest you call Ralph Cestero at Ferrari of Washington. I bought my TR from him 2 years ago and they backed the car and the car was as they advertised. I was just there today talking with him and the shop guys. It is cool just to be able to stop in a "shoot the breeze" and see the cars.
The point to remember is all transactions may have a couple glitches but it is the backing of the seller that counts in the end. A problem is no big deal if the seller takes care of it in the right/businesslike way.
Ralph will do that. His number is (703) 478.3606. Tell him I sent you and that you want an excellent TR like Niles from Maryland and you cannot go wrong. If he can find it he will get it for you and ask for an excellent PPI etc. Now, you might pay a higher price than if you went out on the "open amrket" but you need to do the math. By the time, you arrange your own PPI, possibly travel to see the car and phone bills etc. the higher dealer price differential is smaller than it seems. The question is what is peace of mind worth to you. Call him, its worth the shot he may have something reasonable he can get a hold of for you.
Good luck on your search. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 10:34 pm: | |
I am sorry to hear about your problems with them. You know, the first Ferraris I drove where from the Ferrari dealer in Woodland Hills, CA., and I was less than excited about the state of the cars I drove. I was almost fully discouraged from continuing the search for my first Ferrari. Many people have suggested avoiding dealers all together, and experiences like yours seems to augment my fears about them. It is very unfortunate that cars like these are still handled and sold in the same fashion as those $500.00 beaters on cheap used car lots. What is even worse, is that these are authorized Ferrari dealers. Who are we to trust?
Thanks again for the information, Jake.
Arnaldo Torres. |
Jake Turrell (Jaket328)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 7:20 pm: | |
Arnaldo,
I bought my 328 from Steve Harris, and to be honest, it was a fairly rocky transaction. The bottom line was that they said they would do an entire 30K service on the car, along with addressing a few other issues. I picked the car up in Salt Lake City and drove it back to Dallas (which is a fantastic drive!!!), at which point I took it to Ferrari of Dallas for an oil change. They found numerous problems, the two most important were that the brake fluid had not been changed recently, and the valves had not been adjusted (valve covers had the older style aespestos (sp?) gaskets). These are both important parts of a 30K service.
After calling Steve Harris and fighting tooth and nail, they agreed to either take the car back, or pay a small amount. What was worst was that they said they never agreed to do the full services. They backtracked on almost everything they had agreed to.
I finally agreed to just take the small amount of cash, because it was a fantastic car at a reasonable price. I got everything addressed by Ferrari of Dallas (at a significant cost out of my own pocket), but lost all trust for Steve Harris' dealership.
If you still want to work with them, you really should get everything they agree to in writing. I would have separate line items for every little detail. Also, have a mechanic check out the car before you take delivery. Once you've driven the car for any significant period of time (like all the way back to Dallas) all bets are off and they'll claim any issues happened on your trip home.
Hope this helps. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2001 - 3:48 pm: | |
They have a couple of Testarossas at what appears to be reasonable prices from which to negotiate.
Thanks,
Caribe. |
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