| Author |
Message |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 201
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 7:18 pm: | |
If you really want to strip it with stripper and do it properly... have it dipped. Totally disassemble the car and take it to a facility where they dip it. One in Atlanta is called Un-Paint. When you get it back, there will be nothing left but clean metal or holes where it was rusty.
Of coarse NEVER do this on a 308! The fiberglass tub is bonded to the tubular frame. If you had it dipped, when you got it back there would be no tub! Most guys building racecars have them dipped. Its amazing how much all that undercoating and rust proofing weighs. On an early 911 that came from the factory liberally undercoated and rustproofed it will save about 70lb. |
George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member
Username: Oof_n_goof
Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 10, 2002 - 7:51 am: | |
http://groups.msn.com/AVetteandaFerrari
Link to my vette, that I completed a frame of resto in Jan 2000. Used a stripper to remove the 1000 coats of paint, and afterwards used soap and water to wash the car. Yea, the stripper was non flamable, and water soluble...did not damage the plastic. It all depends how you prep the car. Do the job right, no long term adverse affects, take short cuts, expect the paint to blister.
Next car I do, I will use the stripper, it's fast, messy, but not that bad.
m |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2971
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 10:45 pm: | |
Terry, Very good explanation of the prep and painting. Another reason not to use strippers is that you may not see it right away but strippers can come back to haunt you in years to come even though you used a neutralizer. Strippers go in to the pores of the paint and often times don't get totally removed before painting. I would definetly stay away from strippers. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 185
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 5:26 pm: | |
I have done tons of body work and paint, including show quality repaints on E-Type Jags.
Strippers SUCK. They stink and are a nasty mess to deal with. Unless you have underlying rust or structural issues that need to be exposed for repair, dont use stripper.
So you have an air compressor? If not, buy one. No point messing with bodywork without the right equipment. The best way to tackle the initial part of this job is with a good DA Sander and 80 grit disks. Buy a box of the disks and change them every 30 min or so when they get worn out. Go at it section by section until the entire top color coats are gone.
After this stage, you can identify all of the areas that need bodywork and fix them. All dents, dings ect.
When done with repairs, block sand the car (wet is better but dry ok too) with 220 grit to smooth it up, then prime it with a good 2 part catayst primer/sealer. Block sand this with 220 grit and then prime with a high build 2 part primer.
Now you are ready for real paint prep. The difference between Maaco and Bo Pirkle happens at this stage, NOT at the paint spraying stage. Here is a massive simplification: wet sand with 320 grit. Spray again with high build primer. Wet sand with 400 grit. Spray a very fine "dusting" coat of black paint on the car. you dont want to cover it, you just want a very light dusting of black all over. Now with a good block, wet sand the car gently with 400 grit paper. Stop on any section when the black disappears. The areas left black are the low spots, primer color surrounded by black are high spots. this process lets you identify problem areas you may not otherwise spot. Use a good filler and the high build primer to fix each problem area. Repeat this process of priming, dusting and blocking until no high or low areas exist. This is also tricky around door and hood shut line areas. They should be exactly even with each other all around the mating areas.
When the body and lines are perfect, prime again. Then wet sand with 400 grit, then with 800 grit and finally with 1200 grit. Make sure you do not go through the primer coat. Make sure there are no imperfection anywhere on the car.
Now your ready for paint. You may shoot the door jambs and such yourself, but take it to a pro for the outside. You need a downdraft booth. No other way to avoid dust in the paint. Get a pro to shoot it. Shooting paint is not hard, but it takes practice. If your not "current" and doing it often, you will get a poor flow-out and it will take much more post-painting work.
Use a high quality catalyst enamel like Sikkens. DO NOT shoot this stuff outside of a booth.... it contains cyanide based materials and is VERY nasty! Serious respirators are mandatory.
When done painting, you may need to color sand and buff, but the high quality paints like Sikkens often require little of this if the prep work has been done properly.
This is the key to a good paint job: its 95% prep and 5% painting. There are no short cuts. This is why a Pebble Beach quality paint job will cost you $30K+. However, its also not rocket science and anyone with the time and determination can do it. Let me know if you need any advice or help in this area. |
George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member
Username: Oof_n_goof
Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 4:58 pm: | |
straight industrial style, but get it started with the straight Gillete, then swith to the industrial style. |
George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member
Username: Oof_n_goof
Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 4:50 pm: | |
straight razor blade. once you get it started, you can use the straight blade with the holder, about 3-4 inches in width. |
Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member
Username: Pcelenta
Post Number: 55
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 3:23 pm: | |
george,
do they use a regular bic/schick type single edge disposible razor or a straight industrial blade to scrape the top coat off? |
Mark Foley (Sparky)
New member
Username: Sparky
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 3:05 pm: | |
Most of the Automotive / Aircraft strippers only remove the topcoats and they leave the original Primer. At the Primer level, the car could then be sanded and reprimed (with an epoxy primer) and "Blocked".
If you have not done this type of work before; I would not recomend using the Ferarri as a test bed. It takes a certain skill to get it flat.
I have stripped several Corvettes and the process takes about 25 hours for just the stripping. If the car has been painted a few times you can plan on using almost 5 gal of stripper. |
George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member
Username: Oof_n_goof
Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:30 am: | |
Another option to remove your paint is to use a one edge razor blade....this works ans the paint is chipped off....but is time consuming. It works great, the Corvette guys use this method. You can scrape down to the factory primer, and if you happen to dig deep in the fillers, just fill in the gouges with additional filler |
Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
New member
Username: Brainsboy
Post Number: 37
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:17 am: | |
I went done to metal on my ferrari, if you have any questions I can fill you in on what I did, and the best products to be using. You can e-mail me at [email protected]
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Neil Green (Neilg)
New member
Username: Neilg
Post Number: 49
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:08 am: | |
Guys, thanks for all the information. I understand there are 3 ways to tackle this job: glass bead blasting, paint stripper (both of which go to the bare metal), or wet sanding (to the primer only). Do you have any preference as to which is the best method to eliminate the original Glidden Salchi laquer paint's crazing, and which will not cause any paint bubbling in years to come? |
Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member
Username: Pcelenta
Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 9:39 am: | |
Neil, since the 50's ferrari used a yellowish polyester filler to fill imperfections in the sheet metal...they were often sprayed on in a very heavy coat...because most of the bodies were hammered out by hand there were many imperfections.
when scaglietti built the 308 bodies...they were stamped...the italian dies...unlike those of the germans.. were a little more crude and thus produced imperfections that needed to be filled ..they relied on the same methods of polyfiller...It is heavy filler that sticks very well and in some areas they piled it on...Neil, look around the inner doors of your car and the edge where the top of the front fender meets up with the door...you'll see some of this stuff... |
George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member
Username: Oof_n_goof
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 9:25 am: | |
body fillers are used to eliminate the low spots in panels. Strippers will eat at the fillers and make them soft. When this happens, you have to remove the fillers and redo the low spots.
using 400 will take forever to sand, even using water....I would start with 220 wet, this will cut the paint, then finish with 320. Shoot a 4-5 coats of color, block sand with 400 wet, to eliminate all orange peel, and spray the an additional 3-4 coats, the last two coats wet, meaning a 20-30% paint to 80-70% thinner mix. |
Neil Green (Neilg)
New member
Username: Neilg
Post Number: 48
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 8:44 am: | |
Paul, John, can you expand on this filler issue? I am a novice to automobile painting/body work, and would appreciate any further information you could provide - thanks.... |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 3:09 am: | |
Neil, Paul's right. If you use a commercial stripper it will remove part of the factory filler along with the old paint, then you would have to straighten it out again |
Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member
Username: Pcelenta
Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 7:50 pm: | |
Neil...considering the heavy amount of fillers used by the factory I am not sure I would strip down to metal...generally the crazing in the old nitro based salchi lacquer is limited to the top coat and not to the primer surfacer...I would block (water sand with 400 grit)the car down to the original primer, reprime with a primer sealer...block again and repaint...theres no point in disturbing the original fillers used IMO |
Neil Green (Neilg)
New member
Username: Neilg
Post Number: 47
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 7:14 pm: | |
I have a 77 308GTB which I would like to strip to the bare metal, then have repainted. It currently has the characteristic crazing. I understand the early cars had problems with the Rosso Corsa Glidden Salchi laquer-based paint. To save money, I am considering stripping the car myself. Are there any good articles/advice/procedures on performing this task on a Ferrari, as well as a source to obtain the newer clear coat paint? Thanks in advance. |