| Author | Message | ||
| George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member Username: Oof_n_goof Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2002 |
Sure wish The General hadn't put a computer in my 82 Regal Sport Coupe....Turbo V-6. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1735 Registered: 2-2001 |
Arlie, read my previous response carefully. It said that GM used computers on SELECT models in 1980 and were in fact 1980 model cars. They were mainly the 260 V-8 Oldsmobiles with the Dualjet carburettor which is basicly the front two barrels of a Quadrejet without the secondaries. If you have ever run across one of these they have a different diagnostic connector than the OBD1 cars and were a PITA to connect to. All of the MAP and BARO sensors that were made by Bendix failed in their early life and had to be replaced with A-C Delco units. GM slipped these units out for the Technicians to get the feel of how a computer car would be delt with. While we are talking about GM fuel injection, the Bendix units on the early Cadillac Sevilles were modified and used on the Chevy Cosworth Vegas in 1974-1976. If anyone has ever driven a Cosworth Vega it is an unbelieveable treat. They were fantastic fun cars. I owned three of them as I was the Service Director for a GM Dealer through 1980. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 141 Registered: 5-2002 |
Actually Ed, didn't GM start using computers to run their electronically pulsed Quadrajets which came out in the 1981 model year? And since the 1981 cars were introduced in the fall of 1980, it would just depend upon how somebody interprets the "year" designation. I didn't think that GM used any computers during the 1980 model year, because my Corvette is a 1980 model and it has a standard, non-computerized carburetor. But it's all just quibling over semantics. First came computer controlled pulsed carburetors, then throttle body injection, simultaneous double fire, then sequential fire, etc. With each improvement, the cars become more difficult to repair, but at least they seem to run better these days. I know that I don't see as many cars broken down on the side of the road as I use to. And thanks for the pix of the Electromotive set-up. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 898 Registered: 1-2001 |
Ed -- Thanks for the explanation -- I now see the possible double meaning of that sentence. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1730 Registered: 2-2001 |
Steve, I was responding to Arlie's post and two other posts were written at the same time I was writing mine. The first line saying "you are all wrong" was for the GM computer dates and Sequential fuel injection. I had no ides others were writing at the same time. Your comments are correct. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 895 Registered: 1-2001 |
Ed -- please explain what you think is "wrong" in my earlier post. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1726 Registered: 2-2001 |
 This is what the Distributorless ignition looks like on my 308. For between $800 and $1500.00 anyone can upgrade their engine to this setup and eliminate the entire Digiplex ignition with an ignition that is closest to the Cadillac Northstar set up than anything. It uses GM coils and an Electromotive module but no cam sensor, so the engine must make one revolution before it will start. This will be the probable route most older driven Ferraris will end up with as the old electronics expire. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 136 Registered: 5-2002 |
It sure sounds like an involved system on the 308. Does that distributorless system for the 308 use 8 seperate coils, one for each plug...like current day Cadillacs for instance? Who makes that upgrade for the 308? With the age of the 308 series, I am just wondering what a 308 owner is going to do in 5 or 10 years when the ECU modules die? If replacements aren't available and nobody is technically inclined to troubleshoot original modules, it sounds like a 308 would become a museum display unless you cough up big bucks for a distributorless conversion. Sounds like a very SERIOUS potential problem if the ECU module dies in any 308! | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1725 Registered: 2-2001 |
You are all wrong. GM started using computers in late 1980 on certain models. The 1980- 1982 308s used a Bosch CIS fuel injection system which is a constant variable spray of fuel, dependent on manifold vacuum acting on a valve in a fuel distributor and not connected to RPMs electronically. The ignition system used two modules, one for each bank. that were triggered by a crankshaft position sensor for each module and a common rpm sensor for the tach and engine speed. It also featured a vacuum port in the module that used manifold vacuum to vary timing under load. For all practical purposes the 3 series Ferraris were two seperate four cylinder engines that used a shared crankshaft. This is why you read all the posts about half the engine power being lost and half the engine skipping which is due to the seperate ignition systems. The distributorless ignition system upgrade for the 3 series is the best upgrade that anyone can make on their car. It eliminates the seperated ignition and only leaves the seperate timing belt system per bank that would cause a partial half engine failure. The later Ferraris use a computer for the closed loop function and is a truely dependable system and remanufactured units are probably available. The fuel injection system would still function but would not have the closed loop function without the computer. It was sort of an add on evolution. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 799 Registered: 12-2001 |
The 308s that have electronic ignition use the Magnetti-Marelli elc. ign. The 2 boxes are located in the trunk of the car on the driver's side. There was a shop that rebuilt them but I am not sure if it is still in existence. All of the 308 inj. models use this type of ign. They have sensors on the flywheel for advance. They aren't very reasonable when you do see them forsale. HTHs. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 894 Registered: 1-2001 |
The injection systems on 308s (K-Jetronic and K-Jetronic with lambda) are the "continuous"-type so there is no electrical signal to the injectors (i.e., they spray continuously). | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 135 Registered: 5-2002 |
My specific knowledge of the 308 ignition system is minimal, but I assume that it uses a main Electronic Control Unit or computer to control everything. I am more familiar with GM cars. GM cars went to computer controlled systems starting in 1981. The main computer "brain" is a small module. Do the injected (post 1979) 308 Ferraris also use a computer ignition module? Where is it physically located in the car? Now the dreaded question. Suppose the computer "brain" module gets fried in a major wiring catastrophe. What are the replacement possibilities and what are the costs? Of course, GM computer modules are available at any salvage yard, but what about Ferrari modules? Aftermarket sources? Another question. Do the injected 308s use a sequential fire injection system? If so, I assume that they utilize a crankshaft position sensor to determine the exact position (in degrees from TDC) in order to fire the injectors? Am I correct? |