| Author | Message | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 100 Registered: 6-2002 |
Henry - actually, "allowed" refers to the current permitted under Ohm's Law. You clarified your use of the term "needed" in the same way. We are saying the same thing. The current flowing through any circuit will be contrained as the ratio of voltage divided by resistance ( V / R). Unless, of course, one were to Repeal Ohm's Law (a bumber sticker I once saw - thought it was great). Jim S. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 220 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jim: By "needed" I was taking into account, without being very clear, the voltage and resistance.......you taught me that! The draw "allowed", I would suspect would be referring to the maximum limit of the battery, or until the fuse blows. In a "short circuit" the current draw would be to the limit, and either the fuse will blow, or, if there is no fuse, then the wires would start burning, due to the maximum possible current draw allowed. Next time we should discuss our TR's and BBi's!!!!! I also enjoyed this......Thanks | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2002 |
One correction - Current is determined by the draw ALLOWED, not needed. What allows a certain current to flow is the voltage and the total resistance. Jim S. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 219 Registered: 8-2001 |
James: You are one hell of a teacher!!!!! By looking at the lights as just another resistance unit, things become more clear. Current is determined by the draw needed, whereas the voltage (always being 12V, in this case), is divided up by the various "resistance" units within the same circuit. How's that?????? | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 97 Registered: 6-2002 |
Henry - the lamps only care about current. The total resistance of the circuit will determine the current (in a constant voltage source). I have tried to draw a simple example using the numbers we have discussed. Notice in the first example that the contact resistance results in a voltage drop of 3 volts, and the total voltage sums to the battery voltage (thereby leaving only 9 volts across the lamp). In the second (ideal) example, with no contact resistance, there will be 12 volts across the lamp, and the current will now be 13.33 amperes. This is fun. Jim S.  | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 216 Registered: 8-2001 |
James: It would appear that the resistance (bad contact) will not affect the current draw by the lights. Therefore, the increase in resistance must lower the voltage (consistent with Ohm's Law) across that point, thus, leaving less voltage going to the lights, even though 10 Amps are still registered. Breaking up the whole light circuit, into individual component circuits, allows me to now understand the voltage drop. This was interesting.....Thanks again. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 96 Registered: 6-2002 |
Henry - you are on the right track. Assuming that you are working with a 12 volt battery, then the sum of all the voltage drops around the circuit must add up to 12 volts. (Stated differently, tracing from +postive terminal back to +positive terminal, the sum of all voltage drops should equal zero. If there is no resistance in the copper going to the headlamp, then there will be 12 volts "seen" at the lamps. The battery represents a +positive voltage drop, and the drop across the lamps represent a negative drop, adding to zero. This may be a more confusing explanation.) Now introduce a resistance in the line, such as a bad fuse contact. If the resistance is .3 ohms, and the current is 10 amps, then 3 volts (I*R) will drop across this resistance, leaving only 9 volts at the lamps. Now here is where you are getting close. The current flowing through this circuit will be determined by the total resistance, not what the lamps would like. Thus, 10 amps flowing through a 12 volt circuit dictates that the total resistance is (12 volts)/(1.2 ohms) = 10 amperes. In our example, the bulbs must represent .9 ohms, and the connector is introducing .3 ohms (to sum to 1.2 ohms). As we add more resistance, the current will drop. The 12 volt battery, however, will always contribute a 12 volt potential to the circuit (up to a point). Now, a constant current generator (as opposed to a constant voltage source) would pump 10 amps through this circuit come "Hell or high water." If you add more contact resistance, it would not care. It would generate more voltage across the various loads, but 10 amps she be. There are some loads in your car that simply do not desire 10 amps (your clock, perhaps), and therein lies the reason cars rely upon constant voltage rather than constant current sources. Hope this helps. Jim S. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 215 Registered: 8-2001 |
James: Thank you for the lesson. I hope I was right about the current and fuses! I have heard of voltage drops but don't really understand them. If the battery is a constant voltage item, then how can the voltage drop? According to V=IR, if the resistance increases, then the current must decrease, if the voltage is to be constant. Am I wrong in assuming that the current is constant? Thanks | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2002 |
Henry - A battery is a constant voltage source, not a constant current source. Thus, any resistance added to the circuit (e.g., contact resistance at a connector due to copper-copper corrosion with age) will lead to a reduction in current flow. In the limit, if the resistance was infinite, the current would be zero. The opposite extreme of zero resistance would lead to infinite current. The various threads discussing failure of fuse boards and connectors in Ferraris suggest an additional phenomenon. Current flowing through a resistor will create heat, and the heat generated is a function of the square of the current times the resistance (I squared R). Thus, increased contact resistance will lead to significant heat that will cook these plastic connectors. To avoid this, periodically clean the connectors with sand paper, which will lower contact resistance. Because the battery is a constant voltage source, resistance in the circuit will lead to a voltage drop at the load. This is most noticable in those circuits that draw a large current (e.g., headlamps that appear dim and yellow). Most electronic components have voltage regulators that maintain a constant voltage down to some critical level. For example, the ECU may operate at 6 volts, and regulates everything above 6 volts so as not to damage the equipment. In addition, they are designed to filter electronic noise (spikes). (Don't waste your money on surge protectors). The line voltage during startup may drop below 10 volts, thus suggesting that the ECU does not need 12 volts to operate. Just some rambling from an electrical engineer. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 212 Registered: 8-2001 |
Caribe: I bought my panel 2 years ago for about $650....it came with all new breakers, and fuses. If you consider the price of a new breaker, and the fact that there are about 10-15 of them, then the price isn't that bad. Besides, you now have all those extra ones for testing, etc. As I stated before, I am no electronics expert, however, a fuse is made to break when the CURRENT exceeds that of the fuse. Current is the amperage, and NOT the voltage. One may have higher voltage due to a bad connection within the board, causing a higher resistance, but, this would not necessarily change the current. Hence, using smaller amp fuses would not do any good. Remember, a milivolt is just 1/1000th of one volt! The reason that I have suggested replacing your board was made from the fact, that as you have stated, the connectors are solid, yet, movement of the breaker will cause a change. It would appear that this could only happen if there is an internal bad connection within the board.....this would increase the resistance, thus increasing the voltage going out, without effecting the current. What do you think? It seems that you have done a VERY complete testing sequence to rule out all other possible problems. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 403 Registered: 2-2001 |
Henryk, the Fuse Box seems to be the original one (12 years old). I checked around and it seems a new one is going to cost between $700-$800 to replace it. It seems to come with all new relays and fuses. I was shopping around for just the PC Board, but so far, everybody I have asked, only sells the entire fuse box with all of its components as a package. As far as spikes and surges, I think it is the job of the fuse to take care of it. I wander if the fuses are spec too high for some of these components. Perhaps it might be a good idea to run a smaller amp fuse while things checkout with new components. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 209 Registered: 8-2001 |
Caribe: If the connectors are firmly attached, then can there be a loose connection inside the circuit board itself? If so, it would need to be replaced.....how old is it? I am not an electronics expert, but I do know that even small "spikes" of excess current, or voltage, can fry a computer component.......isn't that why we ALL have surge protectors hooked up to our computers? As I understand it, the ECM is nothing more than a computer component, and the components usually take only millivolts to work them. Maybe someone out there can design a surge protector for the computers on a Ferrari??????? | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 400 Registered: 2-2001 |
Henryk, I had bypassed several connector pins (fuel pumps, cooling fans, ...) but the one that is given me problems now is the center connector of the three vertical connectors on the passenger side. The pins do not show any burns or shorts marks but very often I had to go there and wiggle it a little to get things working fine. It seems to control headlight motors, wipers, car interior illumination, and others. Sometimes I get one of these things I mentioned acting funny, and after I play with that connector everything seems to go back to normal. Anyway, I have been meaning to take the time to replace some of the traces just to see if that is the problem, because although it appears to be a loose connector issue, the connector is actually firmly connected to the box. From looking at the WSM electrical diagrams, it seems that there is not much in the Fuse box that could affect the Ignition system, but it doesn't hurt to verify this I suppose. I called a few places and nobody warrants electrical parts, hence, I think I am going with a new part since it should have a better probability for a long and healthty life. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2002 |
A seller on ebay has a new oem ECM for your TR for abuy it now $1175.00 Dont know him or ever bought from this guy he does have many other Ferrari parts for sale | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 205 Registered: 8-2001 |
Caribe: I agree that "something" may have caused the ECM to go faulty, and if so, then this condition MUST be found before investing in a new one. If you are having problems, as you state, with the fuse panel, then why not replace it also, since this is ALSO a major TR problem. How old is yours? I certainly would NOT replace the ECM if the fuse panel is giving me trouble......what kind of trouble are you having? I had problems with mine at about 55,000 miles,(12 years old).......it was those fuse pump wires...... and replaced it.......thank God that it didn't wreck any ECMs. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 397 Registered: 2-2001 |
Henryk, The mechanic figured out that the part was bad by going through a very similar test sequence as I described in this discussion with one addition. He interchanged the Ingition module with the one of a working TR at his shop. Ben, The Ignition Module is actually a Magneti Marrelli part (Ferrari P. no. 125828). The used part that I was quoted was from a parted TR. I am also leaning towards a new one. The only reason that I am holding back is the fact that I am still not sure of what caused the problem. I am been having some problems with my Fuse box and I wander if something there could have affected the Ignition Module. This I have to clarify with the mechanic to see what his opinion is. Anyway, it seems that it might not be a part that goes bad often, and if a warranty is offered on the new one, perhaps is a better idea to go for the new part. Thanks. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 722 Registered: 1-2001 |
odd Q, altho I agree with HenryK - how did he reach this conclusion? Isn't this ECU a Bosch part? Maybe I'm way off.. -Ben | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 201 Registered: 8-2001 |
Caribe: What SPECIFIC test did your mechanic perform on the ECU to determine that it was the problem? Or was it through process of elimination? I think that many of us would like to know the answer. Thanks. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 199 Registered: 8-2001 |
Caribe: Remember, you can now sell yours as a used one for $750. When I see them selling used, they ALWAYS come with no guarantee. Why would someone have a used one for sale, unless the TR was parted out?.......VERY unlikely.....though it could happen. If yours is an 86-88 vintage, then, your car went 14-16 years on one. I would think that a new one is in order. I would check all sources for the best price; pay it; and have no trouble for the next 14-16 years!!!!!!!! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 396 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ok, as I suspected, the diagnosis from the Mechanic is that the Ignition ECU has failed. He is currently searching for a use one. I called a few places, and so far, the cheapest used one is about $750.00 (GT Car Parts), and the cheapest new one is $1275.00 (Dennis McCann). Would it be worthed to put a used Ignition ECU for 60% the cost of the new one? How often do they fail? Thanks. | ||
| James Pai (Jaymus)
Junior Member Username: Jaymus Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yes, I had the same problem on my tach. I checked the pin and pinched it together, and Steve sugguested that I check the connection to the coil in the rear. So I fiddled with the connections and my tach was restored! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 394 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yes you did, Steve. Thanks for the sketch and information. It seems that I might have to get my mechanic involve on this one. If anybody has any other suggestions, I am all ears. Thanks. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 949 Registered: 1-2001 |
Arnaldo -- My mistake. The x and y connectors are only 11 pins, but I wrongly have them shown as 12-pin in the hasty sketch (but I got the wire color right  ) | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 393 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks Steve, I checked the Tachometric relay following your instructions with one minor modification. The relay output pin 87 feeds power to Connector X Pin 5 (Right to left) on the Fuse box which in turn enables both fuel pump relays. Your diagram shows Connector X pin 6 (right to left). In my car that pin is +12V all the time so I checked against the WSM and found out the the next pin is the correct one. Anyway, thanks so much. It seems that is another thing crossed out off my list but the problem still persists. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 943 Registered: 1-2001 |
Arnaldo -- the function of the tachyometric relay is to supply +12V to run the fuel pump relays and to activate Relay "C" in the black box under the RR fender (which in turn puts +12V on Pin 1 of the injection ECUs). To confirm if the tachyometric relay is working correctly just measure the voltage on the violet wire in the "x" connector shown below:  It should go to +12V when cranking and then stay +12V when running -- if it does, the tachyometric relay is functioning OK. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 705 Registered: 1-2001 |
Arnaldo - The Tachometric relay conrols fuel pressure at startup, if you have one bank not getting spark then this has nothing to do with that relay. Again there are only 3 things needed air, fuel and spark. If you can rule out any 2 (seems like you have ruled out lack of fuel/air) then the remaining (spark) is your problem. If you aren't getting spark - follow the power from the source to the plug, or vice versa until you find the fault. I'm with BrianS as well if one bank isn't FIRING why are we talking about fuel? On the other hand if you are not getting spark and there IS fuel getting into the chambers then you SHOULD be able to smell (some) raw fuel. Not to confuse things - I had a similar problem (running on one bank only) but I traced it to a fuel issue (I found spark everywhere) ended up having a fuel pump RELAY go bad on me - swapping the relays moved it to the other side, that was a bunch of trouble shooting over something minor, but that's a whole 'nuther subject. Both fuel pumps running (tried them independently ??? - pull a relay then turn the key to ON position to hear the pump run) -Ben | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 392 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, I think I found the tachometric relay. As Steve suggested, it is behind the fuse panel (BOSCH Steuerrelais 0280 230 006). Besides testing for conductivity on the prones that are suppose to connect when non-energized, I do not know what else to check. Nevertheless, it does not smell like it has overheated or burned. It actually seems to be in near new condition. From what I read so far on the WSM, the tachometric relay has more to do with the operations of the pumps than with the ignition firing. Perhaps the problem still lies somewhere else. I called several auto part stores and nobody seems to have a clue as to how to test a relay. Does anybody knows the proper way to test relays? Anyway, to summarize my findings today: 1. Fuel pumps are cranking well. 2. All connectors in engine bay seem to be clean and in good working order. 3. Interchanged the injector ECUs, and Ignition coils, and right bank still continues without power. 4. Measured resistance across tachometric sensor and TDC sensor and they appear to be in good order. 5. Checked Ingition cap for right bank and everything looks good. 6. Checked resistance across ignition coil wire feeding ignition cap and it is fine. 7. Attempted to check for power by closing to ground the output of the right bank ignition coil but no energy coming out of it. 8. Checked vacuum lines and everything seems to be in the right place. 9. Opened relay box under rear right fender and checked fuse and relays and everythings appear to be fine. 10. Fuse box shows no signs of new damage or blown fuses. 11. Inspected tachometric relay and it appears to be in good working order. 12. Visually inspected Ignition ECU box an it appears to be fine. I wander if the problem could be a loose ground somewhere on the right bank wiring after the Ignition ECU. I will take a look at the Thermo-time switch, but I think it affects the fuel injection system rather the the ignition system. Question: At a shop, how does a mechanic determines if a relay is bad? and how does he determines if the Ignition ECU is bad? Thanks for the help guys. Any suggestion is welcome and appreciated always. | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 257 Registered: 5-2001 |
Another thought, have you checked the thermo-time switch and Temp sensors? Joe | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 256 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well now I am stumped with you both. Steve, I have a F113B motor and the US is a F113A. I think that my version is either a much earlier version (Sept. 1986) or that changes were made to your later version? May be it is one that Steve says is behind the fuse panel. I would see if it is the one and even pull them all and check them to see if they are a 6-pronge or suspect. I know that mine has Ferrari stamped on it vs. most relays being Bosch. Joe | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 940 Registered: 1-2001 |
Joe -- I think your non-US TR has a bit different electrical layout (BTW -- Do you know your version? There's no "euro" mentioned in the SPC). On the US TRs the tachyometric relay is mounted on a rail behind the fusepanel with several other little evil black boxes (but like Brian s. suggested, if a coil isn't firing during starter cranking/engine running that's a different problem IMO). | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 391 Registered: 2-2001 |
Joe, I have searched long and hard for that red relay but to no avail. I see it in the WSM as well, but I can't find the darn thing. Under the passenger foot well there is only the 4 black relays that I mentioned. I look at the bundle of wires coming back from the engine compartment through the console to see if I can identify the C7 connector since it is suppose to be attached directly to it, but there is nothing there. According to the WSM, the Tachometric relay has 6 wires connecting to it. None of those relays uses that many wires. I think the coil and the module on top of it are good since the problem remains unaffected when I interchange the two coil assemblies. One thing that I noticed is that the exhaust tips spitting out a liquid is the one for the bank that is working. Hence, it might just be water since I have not been able to smell fuel out of the few drops that I caught. Anyway, I will keep looking for that relay to see if the culprit. I am getting worried that it might be the Ignition Module ECU($$$) which I do not know how to test. Thanks. | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 255 Registered: 5-2001 |
As an afterthought, have you tested your ignition modules? I am not sure of the specs but at least they should be tested separately for consistency. They are the black modules mounted on top of the coils but not connected to them. They connect to the wiring harness in the motor bay. If you unplug them and then ohms test them by using one of the 6 poles as ground for comparisons (not all poles are active inside). If one of them is bad and your coil is good, instead of replacing the whole coil setup, you can replace the module. I�ll have to look it up, but I have a Bosch # to replace the module only. I think they cost $40.00 each?? Joe | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 254 Registered: 5-2001 |
Arnaldo, I apologize for not being as detailed, as I will now. The relay I spoke of is called a Tachometric Relay (Fuel Injection, page 120, fig.3, Relay-26 in the WSM). It is connected to your coils and could be affecting one of them. It has been awhile, so I looked at it again and realized that it is red, but all by itself instead of with others present. The way I knew it was bad was sort of primitive but it smelt burnt, so I took the cover off and found the circuit board had �FRIED�. It�s worth a check. Your ohms reading on the TDC and Tachometer Sensors are good. I just recently test mine and the reading is close to mine. If one of those is bad, the motor will not even start. Joe | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 390 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ok, this is what I got so far. I searched for the red relay behind the passenger kick panel but found only 4 relays, all black. Checked with ohmmeter only, but they seemed fine. Then, removed box under the right side rear fender and checked fuse. Mine has a 10A fuse which was fine. Measured resistance of the right bank coil cable feeding the ignition cap and it read fine (about 500 Ohms). Bypassed cable to see if coil will spark to ground, but no energy present whatsoever. I measured the resistance through the TDC pick up sensor (690 Ohms) but do not know what the proper value should be. Also measured resistance through the Tachometric sensor (650 Ohms), but again, do not know what the proper value should be. Does anybody? I also disconnected every connector visible that could affect the ignition system and they all look clean and fine. Checked all vacumm lines (just for completeness since I also believe the problem is strictly electrical) and everything seems fine. I think that I need to come out with some Relay tester to see if these relays are truly Ok, but besides that, nothing seems to point to the cause thus far. | ||
| F-J'87EuroTR (Ferrarijoe)
Member Username: Ferrarijoe Post Number: 253 Registered: 5-2001 |
Arnaldo, There is a relay on the left-upper side of the passenger foot well. You should remove the kick panel to get to it properly. It might be red and it affects the ignition and fuel systems during the warm up. I had the exact problems you have after I bought the car. I replaced it ($125.00) and it has been fine since. Also, have you looked at the relay under the right-rear fender in the small black box. Mine has a relay (Strabol) that has a 5-amp fuse on it. When it blew a couple of years ago, it ran poorly after the warm up circuit went off. I am not sure that it only affects one bank, but I would check it. Joe | ||
| Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
Member Username: Eurocardoc Post Number: 358 Registered: 11-2001 |
If one bank doesn't fire then why are people talking about the fuel system? stick to basics, always works to carry out the logical tracing of a problem. Substitute a coil wire from the 1-6 bank hold near ground. Is there a spark at the coil? If so, then the coil wire is bad. Very common. If the coil oes not spark, and you have exchanged the coils and amplifiers, then the fault could be the flywheel pick up. | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
Junior Member Username: Ctk Post Number: 66 Registered: 7-2001 |
Try this test. While the engine idles (if it doesn't, temporarily increase idle speed by the bypass screw or idle adjuster screw)remove the rubber bellows at the sensor plate and using very gently finger pressure push down (or up from below, I'm not familiar with the TR set-up)on the sensor plate. If the engine smoothen ups, it's a problem with the fuel settings. If this doesn't help, hook up a vacuum gauge and test for a vacuum leak. My guess is a vacuum leak or maybe a lousy electrical relay to the fuel pump circuit. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 389 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ctk, thanks for your suggestions. I'll take a look at the warm up regulator. By the way, are there two of these so that only one bank could have gone bad? I will pull the WSM and PM to see if I can find it. If I rev the engine, it smoothes out but the fuel smell grows. Vaccum hoses are another good thing to check. Thanks. | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
Junior Member Username: Ctk Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2001 |
If it starts okay then dies out almost immediately, I would suspect a fuel delivery problem. The cold start valve squirts extra gas to allow a normal start but then the warm up regulator could have failed, not allowing the engine to run with proper fuel delivery. It could be false air (air leak via a loose vacuum hose)in the close loop fuel system tricking the fuel mixture (unburnt gas smell) or even that your CO setting is out of whack for some reason (check sensor plate setting). After you start the engine, try revving it to see if it is smooth, running all cylinders and gets to redline. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 388 Registered: 2-2001 |
Steve, yes, I pulled out the ignition cap on the bad bank and took a look inside. I noticed that the contacts for the spark plug wires were a bit dirty and clean it all up. I put a new rotor when I did the major service a couple of months ago and it looks fine. I will open the working bank ignition cap to compare. It's funny because when I turn on the car everything seems normal at first but suddenly within the first 30 seconds or so, the RPMs drop and the engine starts to run rough until it stalls. Hence, it seems the bank works initially but something is shutting it down. I hope it is not the ignition module, T.Rutlands retails it for $2100.00. Thanks. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 928 Registered: 1-2001 |
Arnaldo -- Did you have a look inside the distributor cap on the bad bank just to confirm things are OK? | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 387 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well, it is running on one bank only. The spark plugs on bank 1 (1-6) are not firing. I exchanged to two Coils to see if the culprit, but things did not change. I exchanged to two Jetronics ECU, same results. I pulled the ignition module out to see if anything obvious. Everything externally looks good. Connectors are clean, etc. All fuses look good, No new burned connectors, or anything that can point to a failure, on the fuse panel. Any relay that could affect the ignition from firing on one bank but not the other? Does anybody know how to test Ignition module? | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 386 Registered: 2-2001 |
You know, it doesn't seem to be running on one bank, but I do not know how to tell anyway. It is definitely not firing on all cylinders based on the smell of fuel. I'll take a look at the connections to the ECUs, and some more to the dreaded fuse box to see if anything obvious pops up. Thanks. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 150 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sounds like the dreaded ECU problem, you are running on one bank? If that is the case, the proscribed fix I have seen posted repeatedly, is to clean all the ECU connections with electrical contact cleaner, then apply Stabilant 22 contact enhancer to all connections. It is availble from most VW dealer parts departments. This seems to be a common problem with 348's and TR's. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 384 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hi, I just got back from vacation, and when I start the car everything seems normal for the first minute or so. After that the RPM start dropping and it seems to hover about 700 RPM for a few seconds and then it dies. If I apply gas, the car stays on, but if I let it idle again this will repeat. One thing I noticed was the smell of gas coming from the exhaust when I was keeping the car running by pulling on the throttle body linkage. When it dies, I can still hear the fuel pumps running as normal, so I it is not the pumps. Nevertheless, I think it might be electrical since lately I had have a few of those and I am considering replacing the fuse panel. The car does come on again if I restart it, but it will eventually die again. First, I am going to try to check for current to the spark plugs. Any other ideas? Thanks, Arnaldo. |