| Author | Message | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 324 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, I've come across quite a few references of using castable urethane with glass fiber reinforcement. For example: GM is evaluating truck beds made from fibre reinforced urethane: http://www.fortune.com/sitelets/dupont/articles/coatings_00001660.html However, I think that I need to find a urethane with greater flexural strength. I'm pretty sure that Devcon's Flexane has much higher flexural strength than Alumilite. I'lll probably call both companies & see what they recommend. | ||
| Pauli Salmu (Psalmu)
New member Username: Psalmu Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2001 |
Almost all my knowledge in the area comes from googling around a bit after reading this thread made me curious... I noticed that whenever reinforcing casting resins with fibers was discussed, it was about polyester or epoxy resins. Nobody said anything about urethane as in Alumilite, which made me wonder if there might be issues with something like whether the resin type bonds with the fibers well enough so that they really strengthen and not only fill. Anyway, I think I saw 30% fiber by volume mentioned somewhere but it was when mixed with polyester or epoxy. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2001 |
re:"SHORT GLASS FIBERS" Yes, Alumilite can take up to 100% by volume inert fillers. I've had that on my list to try also. Question is how much glass fiber could be added & it still be sufficiently pourable to flow into the quite small mold passageways. There are a lot of materials options out there. I just need some spare time to work with them. RE:"Distributor caps" I've been thinking about both rotors & distributor caps. I'm confident I can mold the plastic pieces, but the metal parts will have to be scavenged from a core until I tool up, or get someone else to tool up to custom make them. There are several moldable high-dielectric, moisture & oil resistant materials that might be suitable. I'll have to research the dielectric strength of Bakelite, but I believe that Alumilite may make the short list. It's mechanical properties would work well in this application. ANYONE HAVE A FAILED DISTRIBUTOR CAP THEY'RE WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE CAUSE? If someone would send me a BAD distributor cap, that is mechanicly intact. I'd be willing to tackle reproducing it. Once I've got a good mold, I'll have to destroy the bad cap to salvage the contacts, etc. to mold into a new cap. Hmm, come to think of it, I'll need the contacts, etc. to use as models for making replacements also. Unless I can salvage the white w/black wire number inserts also, the new cap wouldn't have them. Eventually I'd find a way to reproduce them also. What would be a reasonable price for a reproduced distributor cap? | ||
| Pauli Salmu (Psalmu)
New member Username: Psalmu Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hmm... could Alumilite be reinforced by mixing in short cut glass fibers? Alumilite's website doesn't give any hints... | ||
| Erik R. Jonsson (Gamester)
New member Username: Gamester Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2002 |
Didn't someone post early last year re: they were making distributor caps...someone in Cali. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3124 Registered: 2-2001 |
Verell, If you really want to make your project pay off, Make up some Dist. Caps for 308s out of bakelite or similar compound and you will sell a ton of them. At a competitive price of course. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1996 Registered: 12-2000 |
I've enjoyed this post. Gives me inspiration to make my own sparkplug extenders and distributor caps!  | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
New member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes, I would gladly pay $150 to have my old one repaired rather than pay $1000 or more to get one off of a wrecked 308! Thankfully I don't need one at the moment, but when the time comes... | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1891 Registered: 2-2001 |
If I had some 4 valve pulleys to compare I could let you know. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 315 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ed, My assessment of the size of the market matches yours. As long as it meets the criteria I posted, & the Fed & State IRS agree it's a business I'll be happy. If I can produce quality replacement parts that are otherwise unobtainable, I should be able to also peddle them & the rebuilding service to T.Rutlands & Italian Car Parts, etc. Also eBay of course. I'm looking for to be a mid-sized frog in a niche that isn't large enough for any competition to feel it's worth going after. BTW, have you finally sold your last pulley set? I'm still wondering if it won't fit a QV. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1890 Registered: 2-2001 |
Unless you expand your coverage to other hard to find parts I doubt that there is enough failures to support much of a business. Maybe an extra income hobby would be my opinion of what you could hope for with such a small target market. I was able to recoupe my investment on the timing gears that I made but that is more than I ever intended to do so I guess I came out OK. I commend anyone who can design and build something and actually stand back and watch it work and work better than the original did. It is a feeling that money can't buy. | ||
| Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member Username: Pino Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2002 |
Nice job Verell. I don't have an older car (yet), but can already appreciate what you have done here. I have come across some unobtanium parts on my car already, and its only 5 years old. Choices are very limited, and ultimately, part remanufacture is the only conclusion. You should start an enterprise repairing these parts. Your hard work warrants it. Good to see tifosi out there like yourself giving more of a rat's ass than Ferrari SpA in these kinds of situations. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hans, re: Alumilite - Yes, I used uncolored Alumilite which was what I could locate locally. I want to experiment Devcon's Flexane 80 with varying amounts of flex agent. The alumilite seems to be strong enough for this application, but it is slightly more brittle than I'd like. Flexane softened down to 50D or so should work better. It'd be more like the polyurethan used for bushings. They can really take a beating. Of course, I'd start with a black compound instead of the natural tan. re: rebuild service This is the general direction I'm thinking about. I'm not sure how easily even broken switches are to come by. I certainly wouldn't mind picking up some & offering a parts exchange. However, A rebuild/repair service is feasable if I can't redily come by some initial ones to refurbish. Everyone's invited to Pls read the business concept part of my preceding post (following the photos)& comment. Inquiringly, | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 158 Registered: 4-2002 |
Verell: Great job! Is this Alumilite? You'd definitely be doing all of us V8 types a favor by reproducing the various innards to this switch (lighting side, as well). You probably won't knock Bill Gates off the Forbes 400 list, but it certainly could be worthwhile to you. Maybe consider a rebuild service? Perhaps you could get an inventory of the diff types (there are some differences, mainly color and wiring in some models, esp 'GT4) and sell them on an exchange basis? An initial inventory shouldn't be too expensive, as you would be starting with dead switches. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 310 Registered: 5-2001 |
SUCCESSFULLY REPRODUCED WIPER STALK SWITCH I now have a mold & can repair/reproduce the switch end of a 308's column wiper stalk! What do you think? (Note that the 'original' is my repaired switch shown in the photos I posted earlier in this thread. IMHO it came out pretty well also.) Will the original switch please stand up?  Bottom view:  I don't have black casting material yet, so I gave the reproduction a quik spray w/black Krylon & got it on too heavy. The Krylon is obviously noticably darker & glossier than the original material. It's also glopped a bit which makes the reproduction look rougher than it actually is. I also took the liberty of strengthening the reproduction in a couple of areas. Note the original's sharp corner in the 'hook' area vs teh more rounded area in my part. Also I thickened the outside of the switch contact slots. I guess I've got about 20 hours more or less into the project now. About 2/3 of it is mold making 'experience' that will carry fwd to other projects. SHOULD I GO INTO BUSINESS? (This is sort of off-the wall, & I apologise if it's inappropriate for this forum.) I'm looking at retiring in a few years, & would like to have a small side business that gives me something to keep me occupied & helps justify my car hobby. I'm considering offering a small custom repair/reproduction service for small plastic parts like this. For example: Would you pay, say $150, to get your wiper, turn sighal, or headlight switch stalk repaired? ie: Send me the complete column switch including as many of the broken bits & pieces & I'd ship you back a repaired switch w/ a 1-year return for re-repair warranty on the repaired part of the switch?. If I see potential follow-on business for a part, I'd eat the cost of making the mold. Otherwise we'd negotiate a price. I don't want to get rich, just recover my costs & be somewhat compensated for my labor, get a bit of a tax write-off on my car hobby, qualify for jobber rates on car parts, & help other Ferrari owners who need F* unobtanium. What do you think? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 307 Registered: 5-2001 |
PROGRESS REPORT: MOLD CUREING, MAKING TEST PART TONITE... I've gained a fair amount of 'experience' in making a 2-part mold for the wiper stalk switch end. Making a 2-part mold is an art that takes 'experience' to acquire. I think I've made the majority of the possible beginner's mistakes, but at least I've been able to recover & haven't had to start over. Anyway, I just poured some RTV to fix the last couple of flaws in the mold. The mold s/b cured tonite. If all looks OK, I'll use it to make a test piece. If the test piece comes out OK, then I'll put the column switch back together & see how the Plastic Surgery repair holds up. If not, then I guess it'll be more work on the mold... I'll post a couple of photos so you can see the results. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3083 Registered: 2-2001 |
Verell, I hope it works for you. I just never had any luck with it. If it is compatible with the plastic or whatever the switch is made of then, That's great. Good Luck. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 297 Registered: 5-2001 |
PLASTIC SURGERY BONDS!!! ------------------------ I'll be dipped in ................. um, ah...Cosmoline! Whatever the switch plastic is, Plastic Surgery sure bonds it! Only time will tell how strong the repair is. Magoo could still be right that Plastic Surgery isn't strong enough. (Hmm, if Plastic Surgery works, would any super glue work too? Depends on whether Plastic Surgery's acrilic component is coming into play or not. I'm certainly not in a hurry to find out!) I couldn't scrape the excess around the pins off after I clipped the pins the way I could Plastic Welder! I had to shave it w/a razor blade, then file & sand it down. I even filled in a couple of small crasks where the pieces didn't quite align. It cured in a few minuites & I was able to file/sand everything quite smooth. I'm certainly getting some good(I think) experience on this project. I just masked off everything but the repaired area and sprayed it with wrinkle paint. Hopefully it'll stick & be a close approximation to the original wrinkley finish. I actually think this repair may hold up. However, However, I'll make a RTV mold of it tomorrow just in case, & because someone else may need their switch fixed. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 295 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank, Here's a photo showing all of the wiper & turn signal stalks:  Does it look like a Fiat/Lancia/Alfa part you know of? PLAN B PROGRESS --------------- I pulled the column switch & removed the wiper switch piece. The Plastic Welder had formed about a 1 mil thick film in all the joints, & extended up in plugs around the pins. Whenever I'd pull a pin out, the plug and film in the general area would peel off with it. Definitely no bonding. On the other hand, the metal wiper stalk end cleanly peeled the Plastic Welder film out of the sorrounding plastic. The film was very tightly bonded to the stalk, as were the plugs to the pins they were surrounding. I scraped as much of the film off of the stalk as I could with a razor blade. It definitely did not want to come loose. I was basicly cutting it off. While I was at it, I checked the headlight switch piece I'd repaired w/Plastic Surgery. I'd cleaned the exterior pretty well before the Plastic Surgery had set up. Howeveer, there was a small dab that had flowed out of the crack & set up. It was pretty small, but I believe it had dissolved into the surface. I couldn't peel it off with a pin tip, & it was black when I scraped it off. This makes me believe that the Plastic Surgery may be compatible with the plastic. We'll find out pretty soon. I've glued the pieces together with Plastic Surgery, then re-drilled the holes & re-inserted pins w/Plastic Surgery. It wicks nicely into the holes around the pins. Here are a photos of each side of the repaired stalk:   I'll let it cure for a couple of hours, then clip off the pins, file them down, & fill any remaining crevices with more Plastic Surgery & a bit of baking soda to accelerate the cure since this won't be structural. After I've got it all pretty again, I'm going to give it a thin coat of wrinkle paint to get something close to the original surface texture, & hopefully, to hide all marks from the repair. Finally I'll make the RTV mold of the arm from the bend down for Plan C & let it cure for 24 hours, then Monday I'll mold a test part to see how it looks. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 289 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank, Could you take a look at these pix & see if the broken part or switch matches up to a Fiat or Lancia piece you're familiar with? The broken wiper arm:  Close-up of the broken piece:  Intermediate stage in the Plastic Welder repair attempt:  A couple of views of the entire column switch: 1. Showing headlight,turn signal side  2. showing broken wiper side  BTW, Yess, it's relative. I've driven in Atlanta. It's more like driving in TX where I grew up. 40 mi was a routine drive. In MA, a 40 mile(crow-flies) drive is often 1.5 hours each way as 'you can't get there from here' + 30mph side/back roads being the only routes(sigh). I don't mind a 3-4 hour trip if I know I'll be coming back w/what I need, but going just hoping they might having something in stock that matches up... If I can come up with Fiat/Lancia/Alfa P/N, I could call them first. Same w/Italian-Auto. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1279 Registered: 9-2001 |
Verell, I guess distances are relative but here in the Atlanta area 40 miles is a short drive or a distance you drive to lunch at a favorite eatery. There are several Fiat/Alfa/Lancia aftermarket parts sources out there that should be able to match up what you need. Try www.international-auto.com | ||
| Carmine Nicoletta (Ncarmine)
New member Username: Ncarmine Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2002 |
Here's my home made ring nut tool.  | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 279 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank, The only Fiat service place I can find listed in New England is over 40 miles away. There don't seem to be any listings for Lancias. I'll probably visit a couple of the larger salvage yards next weekend to see if they're holding onto some Fiats, Lancias, or Alfas that of the right vintage. Problem is, the salvage yards around here are starting to automagicly crush anything older than ~10-15 years due to state & federal regulations. Finding Rx7 parts is starting to become a problem. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1275 Registered: 9-2001 |
As posted earlier, the switch gear including the column switches are commonly used in Fiats and Lancias. Look around and you will be able to match it up. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 275 Registered: 5-2001 |
Richard, Thanx, I've got lots of pix that I took during the initial repair attempt as I was planning to write it up. I'll post a few of the most relevant ones. It sure would be nice to discover that the column switch assembly is common to a higher volume vehicle & is still available. Even finding that pieces of the switch are common would be a big help. COLUMN RING NUT TOOL MADE FROM PIPE! I received the following tip in eMAIL from Carmine & thought I'd pass it on. Since the column nut isn't torqued on, the iron pipe should work fine & is a lot easier to fabricate than grinding down a hardened steel socket. . "If you need to remove to column switch, you can make a tool to remove the ring nut with a piece of 1 1/4 inch diameter pipe. I went to Home Depot and picked up a piece of galvanized pipe, divided the circumference into four, and grinded the grooved pattern. " Probably just drill a 5/16" hole across the other end & stick a 1/4" extension thru it to turn it with Thanx Carmine, Very innovative, wish I'd received it B4 I'd bought one from Baum Tool w/next day air delivery last week(sigh). | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2001 |
Verell, I don't have a 308 handy (ha!) but if you can post a photo of your wiper switch especially the part where it connects inside the column I can let you know if it was used on other Italian cars (most likely Fiat or Lancia) and help source one. As you guys know, my only connection (loose at that) to Ferrari is my Fiat Dino and I have a few other Fiats as well ranging from 1964 to 1978 and hang out with a bunch of Fiat, Lancia and Alfa freaks so if the same part was used, we can find you a source. I can maybe even send you a few used switches for you to compare to your switch and then if one matches we would know the part number to look for a new one to suit the condition of your car. -Rich | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 103 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've used a lot of Alumilite. Be careful of proportions of the two chemicals (equal parts), because I've had some parts that remained a little soft from sloppy measuring. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3078 Registered: 2-2001 |
The reason I mentioned bakelite is that it doesn't fuse together by chemical reaction as the plastic welder does on plastics. That has been my experience. Anyway, good luck and let us know what works. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 274 Registered: 5-2001 |
WILL TRY PLANS B) & C) THIS WEEKEND I'll try the plastic surgery first 'for the halibut', and because I need everything back together for plan C). PLAN C: MOLDING A REPLACEMENT PART I'm buying an Alumilite casting kit (see: http://www.alumilite.com/line.cfm ) from a semi-local hobby store. While I have the part glued together, I'm going to make an RTV mold & verify that it's good by making trial cast w/o the shift lever. If the Plastic Surgery doesn't bond, I'll cast a part on the shift lever for real. One way or the other I shold have a repaired switch by next week. Magoo, It's a thermoplastic, not a thermosetting plastic like bakelite. It melts while a thermoset plastic won't.When I tried to drill it to insert the pins, the slowest speed on my Dremel tool was still high enough to melt it onto the drill bit. I had to use a variac to cut the voltage into the Dremel down to 60 volts or so in order to get the drill speed down slow enough to cut the plastic w/o melting it in the process. The the switch material has the slightly waxy feel characteristic of high-density polypropylene & polyethylene. Plastic Welder lists both of these as not bondable. I wish it were bakelite as I've had good luck w/epoxies bonding bakelite. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3077 Registered: 2-2001 |
Verell, That stuff must be bakelite or some substance that won't fuse when using the Plastic Weld. As I have found and Steve did also, the Plastic Weld really works well on plastic. If the weld peels off then you can try something else but I am at a loss to tell you other than the Duro product I suggested using the slow dry epoxy. Sorry it goofed. | ||
| Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Junior Member Username: Sparta49 Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2001 |
I used some stuff from Super Wal Mart's Craft dept. calle Platinum Bond 7800 All - Purpose adhesive. I let it dry for 2 days before reinstalling . It still seemed week when I pushed on it but atleast the lever was where it should be. After about three weeks on the car it seems harder I have used the end of the lever to put the signals on once or twice but I still reach "into" the column more often than not to put the turn signals on. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 269 Registered: 5-2001 |
PLASTIC WELDER DIDN'T BOND!! I put in about 12 hours spread over 2 days this weekend attempting to restore the switch. Used Plastic Welder & a half-dozen steel sewing pins in tiny holes as reinforcements. After 1-1/2 days cureing, the result looked great & held up on the bench. However, after re-installation, the switch broke while I was testing it to make sure all the functions were working. (Ask me if I'm thoroughly bummed out...) POST-MORTEM FINDINGS: The Plastic Welder readily scrapes off of the switch pieces. It bonded firmly to the sewing pins & the sand-blasted switch stalk. Conclusion: Obviously DEVCON should add Ferrari unobtanium to the list of un-bondable materials in addition to polypropylene & polyethylene. (Actually, based on feel & the way it behaved while drilling, etc. I suspect the switch material is a high density version of one of the above 'polys'. Acted like the stuff LEGOs are made of.) I believe that the pins along with the mechanical resistance of the plastic weld bonded around them & plugging the the holes was holding the pieces together until I finally applied force at just the wrong angle when testing. BTW, Plastic Welder was too viscous to flow around the pins. I had to poke it into the holes w/a toothpick, then heavily coat the pins prior to insertion. Even so, the post martem revealed that I'd only got it packed around the top 1/16" to 1/8" of the pin. BTW, I had to do 2 mixes. Plastic Welder only has about 3 minuites working time. At about the 3-minuite mark it starts to firm up. You really have to plan your work around it's working time. PLANS B, C, D & E In order I'll try them: B)Plastic Surgery - Clean all the Plastic Welder off & try again with Plastic Surgery. My headlight switch had a crack in it. It was too small for Plastic Welder to flow into it. I flowed Plastic Surgery into it, & it seemed to bond fairy well. Had to work to scrape the excess off of the outside. Looked like it was biteing in as well. I give this a 50-50 chance. C)Mold a urethane replacement part around the switch stalk. Eastwood sells Alumilite's urethane casting kit. I'll either get one, or order some DEVCON Flexane. In either case, I'll make a silicone mold of the stalk with the pieces in stuck in place around it. Then insert the stalk into the mold & cast the switch part around it. This should work. I'll probably have to figure out a way to pull a vacuum both while making the mold & then casting the part. (If this works, then maybe I'll offer a switch repair service.) D) See if a FIAT or ALPHA column switch is usable. International Auto's catalog lists a half-dozen or so column switches: http://www.international-auto.com/pdf_files/IAP33.pdf Anyone have a clue which one might match a 308's switch? I don't think there's a Fiat or Lancia shop in the Groton MA/Nashua NH area. I'll prowl a the larger junk yards to see if I can find anything that looks familiar. E) Shell out $750 to get the damn thing rebuilt. BTW, Wish I'd seen the post about lithium grease B4 I'd lubed all 3 switches w/white lithium grease. Anyone know if the polys are sensitive to petroleum based greases? | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1249 Registered: 9-2001 |
Most of the switch gear on Ferraris are right out of the parts bin of Fiat/Lancia. I found the a/c control for my 1986 328 at a Fiat repair shop. It was exactly the same one as used on a Lancia . The price was $150.00 where Ferrari wanted $600.00. It was the exact same part. The headlight and turn signal stalks are also available from Fiat. Look around and you'll find what you're needing for much less. | ||
| Mark Foley (Sparky)
New member Username: Sparky Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have successfully used JB weld for many of these types of repairs. The "Kwick" is not as strong as the regular. JB weld is available at most auto supply stores. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2002 |
You may want to lube the switch parts to avoid future strain. Suggestion: Check with hobby shops selling model trains. They have plastic compatible lubes. Some/many combinations of oil/plastic are not good! Many lithium greases have a petroleum base that can eat some plastics. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2002 |
You may check older threads Someone bought a assembly from an Alfa which is very similar and cannibalized the parts to repair his | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 325 Registered: 5-2001 |
Music wire, available at good hobby shops, is very high strength and is available in a range of useful diameters. It will rust very quickly though, so it needs to be sealed. Sewing needles, not pins, are are also pretty good, considering how slender they are. These materials would not be good for wrapping however. | ||
| Mike C (Concorde)
New member Username: Concorde Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2002 |
If you can't get orthodontic wire, a light gauge guitar or banjo string will work too! | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 263 Registered: 5-2001 |
Erik, The orthodontal wire is a good tip. I've used the wrap in wire trick with Epoxy in the past. It's certainly very very strong. In this case, the repaired area is visable as it's the base of the wiper switch arm. I'd like to restore it to the original appearance. Hence pins & not wrapping. I hope to file/sand & paint the repair to finish restoring it. Hence pins but not wrapping. Everything indicates the Plastic Welder is going to be plenty strong. Probably enough so that the pins will be over-kill. My friend at TrueValue told me his dad repaired a broken-off handle on a Black&Decker hand drill with Plastic Welder. He's in construction. The repair has held up for over a year of almost daily use/abuse now! PUNT PLAN: If my repair fails, I'm going to pull the switch apart, make a silicone mold of the broken part & cast a replacement out of high denier urethane. S/B stronger than the original part! | ||
| Erik R. Jonsson (Gamester)
New member Username: Gamester Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2002 |
The best trick I have found for bond strength is using braces fastening wire from any orthodontist. It is stainless steel, very fine and high strength. I drill holes with a #60 bit which is plenty large enough to pass the wire thru a few times. A final top to bottom spiral wrap of wire once everything is glued together as well as a coat of adhesive once this is finished will surely allow it to last(on the exterior of the repair to hold everything in) Erik | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3063 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yeah Verell this repair should be correct the first time so I would use the right stuff. Duro also makes a 2 part epoxy for plastics only in the same two part tube like P.W.. I have used it before and with good results. I would try to get the Plastic Welder but if not then look for the Duro as above mentioned. I know you like the plastic surgery cement but it doesn't have the strength for a repair like this. This repair should have the steel pins, steel wire etc. as we spoke of to take the pressure off the bond. Trying to do it a second time really kills your chances of it coming out correctly because of the old bond. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3062 Registered: 2-2001 |
Verell, I made one out of a socket. I believe that it was 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 which ever fits correctly, so that the tips you grind in fit into 2 of the notches on the nut. I ground the socket down so that I had only 2 tips sticking out rather than 4. It works just fine. The nuts are not that hard to break loose. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 261 Registered: 5-2001 |
ANY CHANCE OF RENTING/BORROWING A RING NUT SOCKET FOR THE STEERING WHEEL'S NUT? I'd be willing to post a deposit via PayPal, and would pay for shipping and a reasonable handling/rental fee. I've decided I'd better pull the cluster switch so I can do this repair on the bench. The broken edges of the plastic around the switch shaft is only about 3/32" thick. Thus I'm going to be drilling holes that are maybe 3/64" dia or so for plastic rivits or wire (piano wire?) pins... When work gets this fine, I want to clamp things in a vice & use a drill press. Re: Plastic Surgery It's got a second component (methacrilate?) that bonds better with a lot of plastics than does plain cyanocrilate. But it's not in the same class as Plastic Welder. BTW, I just struck out at Walmart on Plastic Welder. That exhausts every retail store in my area. UPDATE: I called my local TrueValue store & They're holding some for me! | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3057 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hey Barry, I am sure you know but that product has been used as well in autopsies as a quickie "Zip up". | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Junior Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 229 Registered: 2-2002 |
It's amusing to see a super glue product called "Plastic Surgery." In fact, a form of super glue (cyanoacrylate) is used in surgery. It's a cyanomethacrylate tissue adhesive. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3050 Registered: 2-2001 |
Also the Plastic Surgery glue is no better than the reg. super glue products reg or gel. I was very dissapointed in the product. Cheaper but no cigar. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3049 Registered: 2-2001 |
Verrell, To, add to Steves suggestion of repair. When you drill the holes drill them all the way through from one side to the other if you can and plan to make some pins. The pins or wire or whatever you use should be close to the same size as the drill bit but a little smaller so the glue can flow around it. Then using the Plastic Welder put the glue on both sides of the broken area and put together squeezing glue into the drilled holes also. Then put the metal pins you have made, coated with the Plastic Welder, through the holes. After it has hardened trim off the pins and dress accordingly. This will hold and give added strength to the break. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 259 Registered: 5-2001 |
Steve, When I got home I discovered I didn't have Plastic Welder after all. Just something called 'SureHold Plastic Surgery' that is a super glue varient. I've had good luck with it on some plastic knobs & other small plastic pieces. I'm glad you pointed Plastic Weldeer out as it stacks up well against the other alternatives. The 'plastic rivits' idea is a good one. I used that trick to rebuild a completely smashed valve guide in a 7hp snow blower engine. Just smeared the valve with axle grease, used masking tape to retain one of the metal filled epoxies in the general shape of the smashed valve guide boss. The damn thing was still holding together 18 years later when I gave it away! I've got some very small drill bits, so I should be able to make the necessary small holes. I'll also drill 3-4 shallow holes around the perimeter of the switch shaft to help lock it into place. Now, as soon as I track down some Plastic Welder. (Sears, Target, Home Depot & my local TrueValue didn't have it. That exhaust the local stores on the web site's list. - sigh) | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 959 Registered: 1-2001 |
Verell -- the "...Super Glue" part of your short list made me think you were talking about something other than "Plastic Welder". I can only say that on one project I was working with polycarbonate, and I did a little pre-test with some samples strips -- when I tried to break them apart, the base material failed rather than the joint so nothing better comes to mind. I think the preparation is going to be very important to your project, and if you can add some interconnecting internal blind holes in the various pieces (so they get filled with the Plastic Welder to act like plastic rivets) this would be a lot better than just applying the Plastic Welder on the surface of the pieces. Good luck with the (difficult) project... | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 428 Registered: 1-2001 |
I can tell you that I've made gear teeth repairs (plastic gears) as well as thousands of other repairs with this and have not experienced trouble. The statement you quoted may be true but in most applications can be ignored since it won't make any significant difference anyway. Try it and you'll see... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 258 Registered: 5-2001 |
Steve, I've used it, that's why it's on my short list. It's got a very high bond strength: 3500psi! bonds to metal, & is waterproof which sounds very good indeed. However, it isn't recommended for sanding/painting which doesn't bode well for finishing up the repair. Have you every used it to repair a high-stress item like a wiper arm mount? | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 958 Registered: 1-2001 |
I've had very good results using: http://www.devcon.com/CONSUMER/plastic_weld.html for bonding plastic parts. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 257 Registered: 5-2001 |
Craig, I've heard of the super glue/baking soda trick, but have been a bit wary about using it because of the following statement I once came across on the web: "The baking soda is a base (as in acid-base) material that causes the methacrylate to "kick" or cure quickly. As a rule, it isn't a recommended practice for the material as, if it cures too quickly, the bond that develops isn't as strong as when you let it cure more slowly." The full post is: http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/plasticrepair.html Also, the result is claimed to be brittle: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/199711/msg01285.html Can anyone speak authoratatively on this statement? | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 427 Registered: 1-2001 |
The best repairs I ever made to parts like these is superglue plus baking soda. Buy a superglue that flows very easy like water. Don't buy a gel. put the pieces together, add the glue and sprinkle baking soda into the glue. Trim with a file or razor blade. Remember, as soon as the two come in contact, they instantly harden -- very hard! It will stick to both surfaces unlike the epoxies. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 256 Registered: 5-2001 |
My wiper switch arm broke off this weekend. T.Rutlands tells me that new combination switches are no longer available, & used ones are hard to find. Not to mention they're made from priceless unobtanium ($1,200 was mentioned!!!). They did tell me that one person in the US rebuilds them for 'only $750' & offered to send mine to him. I've collected the broken-off pieces and am going to have a go at repairing it. ANYONE ELSE MADE A SUCCESSFUL REPAIR? I'm wondering if anyone else has successfully repaired a broken-off wiper, turn signal, or headlight switch arm. - If so, what did you do? - What adhesive did you use? - How long has the repair lasted? Anyone have relevant experience? ADHESIVE SHORT LIST Three adhesives are on my short list of candidates: - Slow cure Epoxy (Slow cure develops max. strength & adhesion). - Plastic Weld Super Glue for Plastics or Loctite Advanced Plastic Bonder - Super glue (methacrylate adhesive) ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE PLASTIC WAS USED FOR THE COMBO SWITCH? If I knew that I'd be able to pick an optimum adhesive. ie: If it's a polycarbonate, then the methacrilates are ruled out. It looks like it's a thermosetting plastic like bakelite, but that's just a guess. |