| Author |
Message |
Matthew J. Morgan (Kermit)
New member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 43
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 9:46 pm: | |
I cannot say as to the 348, but if you look on Nick's website, you will see me flowbench testing the stock 308 air filter element. The K&N element for that model flowed a full 40 percent more air.IMO the 348 will benifit from K&N. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 28
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 9:09 pm: | |
On stock 348's the most restrictive part is the exhaust not the intake. For cheap you can prove me right by taking the lower exhaust out and running pipes from the upper exhaust right out the back. You can feel a difference and it is cheap and sounds the way a Ferrari should. Most 348 challenge mods have been in the exhaust with tamper in the intake. There is one stock exhaust and two challenge exhausts. One challenge exhaust looks like the stock exhaust without the upper premuffler. It was put on soem challenge cars and the especiales. Later when the 348 ran with the 355 in the last challenge races there was a really hot loud challenge exhaust that made lots of power. It was like staright pipes with a resonator crossover pipe between banks to act as a balancing tube. It's loud makes big power and required no intake mods. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1290
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 10:13 am: | |
You can lose power from completely removing the air filter though. The ECU can only adjust the fuel mixture so much. After that you will run too lean which can damage the engine. On race cars when they add velocity stacks there is a major adjustment of the fuel mixture to compensate for the extra air flow. |
Jens Haller (Jh280774)
Junior Member
Username: Jh280774
Post Number: 54
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 4:42 am: | |
Has nobody made any experiences with other filters like the ones from tubi or K�nig? I am sure that the filters from K&N are great but the companies mentioned above are real specialists for Ferrari tuning. Maybe they are even better. At least Manu (one of our exhaust maniacs!) suspects that the tubi filter together with a tubi exhaust is even more efficient. Does not seem unlogical with me. What do you think?
Con saluti cordialissimi,
Jens Haller |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 285
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 6:27 pm: | |
For all those out there with newer cars like the 355 the gains are not as noticable because first off the air filters are split up and have more surface area (2 filters in the 355 vs 1 in the 348), and the stock exhaust is already pretty damn free flowing on a 355 vs. a 348 and earlier F-car. |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 284
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 6:25 pm: | |
Hey guys I did my runs back to back...two pulls with each filter and the results were almost identical. I think that is exactly what Rob did at the Norwood shop as well. If you want to see the hard numbers follow this link http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/6532/13916.html that is where Rob has his at. I have my sheets as well just not in electronic format. As far as just removing the air filter goes to get maximum performance boost I disagree Ed. The air filter also smooths airflow coming in from the outside before it enters the throttle body. In most situations this leads to better horse power gains, only under full forced induction (RAM air, etc) where the air charge is already large does no filter produce more horsepower. |
Robert Ziino (F355bob)
New member
Username: F355bob
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 5:18 pm: | |
I had a Viper Coupe and the K&N filter change netted about 5rwhp on a 488ci motor. I put K&N on my 95 F355 with a Tubi and I think there was little gain. Dyno #s can be deceiving. All the variables have to be the same from test to test. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 197
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 5:00 pm: | |
I've never had my intake off my 328 but had my throttle body reamed on my Porsche. I also had the intake (sand cast and rough) extrude honed. Those mods made a difference (along with a KN filter).
Well while we are at it here, it has a ported and polished head, higher fuel pressure, 16 pounds boost (upgraded head gasket), a MAF plus a much larger turbocharger. I am rather pleased with its performance.
While it is plenty fast, it is no Ferrari. It sounds like a big Hoover vacuum cleaner. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 196
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 4:52 pm: | |
I think 20 RW hp on a 328 a little hard to believe. The RW hp on these cars is probably about 220 assuming a 15% loss in gearing friction. Do what Ed said. Run it with and without an air filter. Clock it from 70-100 at the same temperature (without a shift) to make it error proof.
Twenty hp would be about 9% increase over 220. That is a lot.
Also, there are some decent size hoses connecting to the bottom of the airbox in a 328 at least (post filter). You would be reducing the vacuum on them. What other effect that could cause I cannot say. They are for crankcase evacuation I suspect. I have never traced them out but that is what they do on other cars. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1846
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 4:36 pm: | |
Take the original air filter out of your car and drive it around the block a few times. This is the maximum power gain you can expect with any air filter. If you did not notice any power gain except for the additional intake noise then the performance air filter is of no help. I personally doubt some of the posted gains unless the replaced filter was already dirty. I had much rather have the security of a GOOD filtering air filter versus one with minimal performance gain and the risk of dirt in my beautiful expensive engine. |
Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member
Username: Robertgarven
Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 2:02 pm: | |
guys,
You really need a free flowing exhaust to get the maximum results fro the K&N. i got one of the first tubi's in the US. It sounded great but when i added the K&N filter you could really feel and hear the difference |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 282
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 9:59 am: | |
Craig I was shocked to but the dyno numbers prove it. Plus have you ever looked indepth at the stock Ferrari air filter it sucks! I thought maybe the 348 was a unique case but then I saw the 328 numbers Rob posted and it looks like it holds true. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 192
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 7:56 am: | |
Thank you, David. |
David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Junior Member
Username: Fastradio2
Post Number: 140
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 6:56 am: | |
K&N 33-2518 will fit a 328...
David |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 191
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 6:33 am: | |
I checked the KN website and found no application for a 328. Does anyone know which one fits properly? Thanks. |
Craig Williams (Craigw)
New member
Username: Craigw
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 5:04 am: | |
that much difference? I had a k&n and a sports exhaust put on my 94 GTS and I couldnt notice any appreciable difference apart from in the sound. |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 279
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 1:12 am: | |
As far as changing sound you can hear the intake valves a lot louder than before when the car is cold but once it is warmed up the only difference is you can hear more of the beautiful intake sounds of a Ferrari engine at high RPMs |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 278
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 1:09 am: | |
K&N all the way 21 horse at the rear wheels on my 348 on a drum dyno. I think that there is a post here to under Norwood Dyno days that Rob tested his 328 with and without a K&N and showed like 20 some odd horse at the rear wheels too.
Hope this helps my man. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 12
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 12:30 am: | |
Totally agree with magoo. I say if you want more power from more flow with stock ECU's etc. You fabricate a smoot intake rather than the bumpy corragated tube. You can even change the design of the airbox for more flow and better ram effect. You take out either or both exhaust systems the top premufffler and the bottom muffler and run straight pipes from the cats with resonator exhaust tips out the back. Personally I run with the muffler off and the premuffler in and 2.25" pipes out the back and no resonator tips. The difference is noticeable by the seat of the pants and the car sounds much meaner but not obnoxious. It sound the way a Ferrari should like a 308 carb car with the airbox and velocity stacks off going under an overpass very fast. Sounds bitchin! Also you can get OEM legal max HP by using the latest 348 spider ECU's. This unit makes more HP and has higher redline until ecu engine cutout and works fine on early 348's. I did that too. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3056
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 12:14 am: | |
The K&N lets the best sound be produced. The horsepower gain I would say can't be read on a dyno. JMO |
Jens Haller (Jh280774)
Junior Member
Username: Jh280774
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:56 pm: | |
Just discussed this with Manu and some other guys. What air filter do you think brings out the most power gain for a 348? K&N, Tubi or tsi? By the way how much gain are we talking about then?
Does the sound of the engine changes as well?
Con saluti cordialissimi,
Jens Haller |