| Author |
Message |
pete gorrell (Rufus)
New member
Username: Rufus
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 3:09 pm: | |
A friend who has a Ferrari specialty shop up here has a couple of post hoists, and a push-in-from-the side manual pump lift from Snap-On which has a frame that lifts the whole car at once. About $2400 Cdn. Circa three foot lift. It's used as often as the others, and provides 360 degree access to the vehicle.
Perfect for access for all those tasks that start off 'remove the rear wheel and liner.....'
Not the main subject of this thread, but a viable alternative....
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Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 292
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:35 am: | |
HenryK,
You'd already mentioned the heavy truck. I agree that you'd want a safety factor. Too bad you didn't know about the Tomahawk, or else it wasn't available then. Altho, being an engineeer, I suspect that the lift engineers already have designed a healthy safety factor in & the lift is intended to be used up to it's max. rating. Just to protect themselves from Joe Schmoke's gas station attendants who say: It's a 7,000 lb truck, the lift spec says 7,000 so up it goes...
With a Ferrari in the 3,000-4,000 lb range, a 7,000 lb has almost a 100% spec safety factor.
The literature on my 7,000 lb rated Nussbaum lift implies a 7,000 lb truck can be lifted asymetricly. But then, I think the only difference between their 7,000 lb & 9,000 lb models was the pump & motor, & the rest of the lift was common. Nussbaum claims to have develooped the assymetric lift concept. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 222
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 10:23 am: | |
I do have the System I lift. Looking at the site, I see that a Tomohawk system would be interesting......best of both worlds!!!! |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 221
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 10:18 am: | |
Verell: I agree with your thoughts on the assymetric lift. At the time of purchase I was considering this one over the symmetric.......I DO like the thought of being able to open the doors, and these are good in tight quarters.
I decided on the 9,000lb symmetric lift because I thought; that 10 feet would be enough; I had all the room I needed; and, because of my F-350 diesel truck weight around 7,000 lbs. I had scary thoughts of seeing this thing on an assymetric lift.......I'm just not used to seeing all this weight being offset, and sitting 6 feet high, with me under it...a personal phobia, I guess! |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 288
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 9:45 am: | |
ASSYMETRIC LIFTS CAN BE NARROWER BETWEEN POSTS THAN SYMMETRIC...
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HenryK,
Sounds like you went with MOHAWK SystemI symmetric lift or it's predecessor.
The whole point of an assymetric lift is that you can fully open the doors while the car's on the lift.
Rob, Mohawk is one of the better known lifts.
Take a good look at the MOHAWK A-7 7,000 lb assymetric's features:
http://www.mohawklifts.com/
and dimensions.
Note that the A-7's post-post spacing can be varied by just changing the hydraulic line's length.
HenryK's suggestion sounds good. It sure looks like that the hydraulic line could readily be lowered to fit your 10' ceiling. Probably just on-the site hack-saw & tubing cutting/fitting installation work similar to what I did for my Nussbaum.
You might be able to find a used A-7 at a significant savings. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 218
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 1:18 am: | |
If I had to do it over again, I would have anchored the lifting posts 12' apart, instead of 10'. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 217
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 1:03 am: | |
Caribe: I personally don't like the idea of "pushing" the car the rest of the way, onto the lift. I recently worked on a differential seal replacement, and, while removing the drive axle, I had to enter the car to engage, and disengage, the transmission, so that the axle wouldn't turn while removing, and installing, the bolts. Since I couldn't reach the shifter through the window, I had to get half-way into the car. I had to do this numerous times in order to remove this seal.
While the 8' width could work for some projects, it would not for others.
My recommendation.......at least 9-10 feet. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 407
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 12:24 am: | |
Henryk, you are right about the tight fit for getting yourself in/out. My mechanic has what I believe is an 8' wide lift, and what he does is that he drives the car into position, gets off, and pushes the car the rest of the way. Something to consider anyway. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 214
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 11:07 pm: | |
Rob: If the TR is 78" wide, and the drive-through is 8' (96"), then you will only have 18", on BOTH sides, to open the door......that means 9" per side, if the TR is centered. Open your door 9" and see if you can get out!!!!! You could move over to the right, but you will never get the full 18" to open the driver's door.
I recommend you look for a wider lift. The Mohawk stands 12' high, but the hydraulic lines above can be lowered, to where you could put the lift in a 10' height garage. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 213
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 10:54 pm: | |
Rob: I have a hard time putting my TR on my lift. The Mohawk lift posts are 10 feet apart, however, the arms are INSIDE of the posts.....I measured this "drive-through" width as being 9 feet. One would think that this would be enough, but it is still very tight. The doors, when open, will hit the framework of the arms, thus limiting the width available (still 9 feet, though). I have to move my car over to the right as much as possible, and still can only open the door half way......enough to get in and out, but a tight fit indeed.
I was thinking of making a ramp to drive the TR onto, so that the door will be ABOVE the arm frames, then, I will have the full 10 foot width. However, this would require the ramp to be almost a foot high......NOT practical!
So I put up with the discomfort. I just have to be very careful.
IMO, an 8 foot drive-through would be unacceptable......9 foot is minimal, with 10 feet being ideal. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 406
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 30, 2002 - 8:18 pm: | |
Yes Rob that lift is wide enough for a TR. The TR is, I believe, about 78" wide at the rear. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 1989
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 10:39 am: | |
The lifts I'm looking at, the narrow one is 8 feet drive thru width. That's still enough for even a wide TR, isn't it? |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 208
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 27, 2002 - 5:59 am: | |
The construction of the lift that collapsed that is shown on the corvette list is similar in construction to an Eagle lift that I have. If you look at photo #30, you can see what appears to be metal filings. The gold stuff are particles of bronze from the bushings/bearings. This is a telltale sign that you are getting severe wear and should look at the system closely. The pulley evidently began binding on the bolt and loosened it. You can see where the threads of the bolt (axle) are rounded where they had been turning and rubbing as they unscrewed.
I inspected mine last night. I held up each end with my shop crane (engine puller) and slipped the cable off each pulley. I turned the pulley by hand to ensure there is no binding. |
Matthew J. Morgan (Kermit)
New member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 41
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 9:19 am: | |
Rob, first off the TR is 1976mm wide. Let me tell you it is real tight even with a bit of offset. The drivers door is hard to get into, unless you are thin. I used �" plywood , 12" x 24" as a base, then 2 x4's with the ends cut at an angle to drive up on so that the Testa would be up enough to clear the arms. I found having the tires run onto the plywood first, then climb up the 2x4's worked the best, as they helped hold them in place. I also added 2"x 2" angle ends to keep from running off the other side (not a pretty thought). I built pads out of 3" square tube , .250 wall and covered them with �" thick rubber (an old conveyor belt piece). This just clear the body seam just under the edge. No matter who built the lift, the TR is an SOB to lift. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 205
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 9:18 am: | |
As you used one of these cable lifts you should always inspect the area around the pulleys. Look for metal filings on the floor or in the pulley area inside the lift. Metal particles are a definite indication something is amiss. The lifts are not something you put together and forget about. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 267
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 26, 2002 - 7:58 am: | |
Rob,
There are Asymetric lifts in all the common weight ratings (7K,9K...).
Did you look into having the lift posts and/or cross-bar extend thru the shop ceiling into the joist area? If you can, that easily gives you an extra 12"-18", or more.
Also, If the floor isn't poured yet, have recesses molded into it to recess the lift posts, this can reduce pad height by 1/2" to 1".
If I'd been able to do this, I wouldn't have to drive my car up on 2x12s to get it onto the lift. If it weren't so expensive/disruptive I'd have another 1" of concrete poured on top of the current floor(sigh). |
Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member
Username: Todd328gts
Post Number: 94
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 10:58 pm: | |
George,
All I have to say is HOLY SH*T!...That link was unbelievable. What a shame...you definitely need to ask questions and get proof from some of these manufacturers. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
Junior Member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 63
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 10:45 pm: | |
Rob, I had a Bend Pak 4 poster and was very satisfied with it. I got the 4 poster so I could safely make a 2 car into a 3 car garage and because of the safety features-no exposed cables or chains, the cost and free delivery. Roger B. |
George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
Junior Member
Username: Oof_n_goof
Post Number: 117
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 10:32 pm: | |
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=369286
have fun reading the trials and tribulations this guy has had when his lift collapsed...fingerpointing. Be sure to click on the links he provided. Be carefull |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 1982
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 9:38 pm: | |
I have to decide over the next week I think. Right now I want a 2 post lift. I might have to go with a floor cross bar one because my ceiling will only be 10 Ft. high. Between the asymmetrical or symmetrical I don't know. I might as well get the asymmetrical arms if not too much more expensive. That is if it still has at least 7,000 lbs capability. The pad height on one I was looking at is 4", but I may look into getting that lower.
I'll let everyone know soon. Please keep the advice coming. Can someone tell me how wide a TR is? I think that will be the key width spec I need. Also, anyone have positive or negative knowledge of the Bend-Pak lifts.
Thanks!
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Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member
Username: Rem9
Post Number: 97
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 8:32 pm: | |
Rob,
I have an Eagle 4-post lift with a 7K capacity in a building with a 12' clearance at the peak. I have used it to service my F-250 Turbo Diesel as well as work on the Ferraris. It has been perfect since I got it some 4 years ago. I did not get a caster set and leave it in one place. No complaints. Semi backed into the driveway and I unloaded the lift with a front end loader. My daughter and I set it up in a day. Quality control on the unit was above average. No complaints, no problems. When I am ready, I plan on a 2 post Eagle as the next addition.
Only drawback with a 4-poster is the difficulty in dropping a TR engine. Actually it's not possible with the 4 post.
The old saying of you "get what you pay for" seems to ring true. Lots of bargain basement and fly by nights out there. Given you only buy these once, it's best to get quality.I give Eagle a thumbs up. |
Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member
Username: Todd328gts
Post Number: 92
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 1:32 pm: | |
Curious to see what our man Rob will do. What's your thoughts so far Rob? |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 9:39 am: | |
Lawrence - If my F-car falls either to the floor, or on top of my other F-car during a quake, I would rather be under it.
Jim S. |
Matthew J. Morgan (Kermit)
New member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 9:29 am: | |
I can certainly sympathize with you Peter. We purchased one from Team Lift Inc. of Eagan, Texas. The layout illustration for install was wrong, and I had to cut the lags off and drill 6 new holes on the concrete. That was not fun. To top it all off it had two left side uppers, so there was no way it would work. Luckily I am a Journeyman welder/fitter, so it was savable by cutting it and reworking one so it would fit the right side. Due to tight schedule, all of this had to be finished Thanksgiving Day. After Nick Sent them J-pegs of the rework and followed them with calls, they promised to send a check to "help cover" our time. Never sent it, in spite of repeated e-mails. Watch out for this outfit DYI's , especially if you don't weld. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 204
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 23, 2002 - 7:20 am: | |
Regarding earthquakes, a 4 poster would be the most stable.
My best advice is to not be under it with a car on it during an earthquake. ;-) |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 76
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 11:33 pm: | |
Has anyone information concerning seismic considerations with lifts?
Jim Selevan |
Peter Topman (Peter_topman)
New member
Username: Peter_topman
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 10:03 pm: | |
Hello Rob,
Just wanted to inform you, and others on this board looking to possibly buy a lift, about my lift experience.
I purchased a lift from Scott at Lifts Unlimited. I am very dis-satisfied. Here were my problems:
Listed below are ALL the problems I had dealing with the product and the company:
1.The lift arrived (5/20/02) without the accessories, which were needed to efficiently and properly assemble the lift. Never was there any mention that the accessories would arrive later than the lift.
2.One of the posts were wrong (backwards). Which made it impossible to properly AND SAFELY assemble the lift. The correct post arrived 2 weeks later. And, not only did the salesman Scott not call the guy in Texas (where the lift is made) to resolve the problem, he had me call.
3.The shipping company charged me extra for lift gate service, which I was never forewarned about, and was not even used when the lift was unloaded. A friend of mine unloaded the lift with his hoist.
Paid for nothing.
4.The touch up paint was black. The lift I ordered was red. The lift had Lots of scratches.
oof the accessories arrived 8 WEEKS LATER.
6.The paint was chipped on the posts plates to the point of 2� x 4� area, and already beginning to RUST.
7.The decals were � way peeling off and crooked. We had to remove them.
8.Minor point but noted : the instructions were poorly written.
9.The dust covers for the posts are a joke. We couldn't even use them.
10.One of the hydralic lines leaked and needed to be re-crimped.
11.Very sharp edges on the aluminum ramps, and one of them was stained on top. We tried to polish it out but to no avail.
12.On 7/12/02 the accessories finally arrived, again missing something. The caster kit was missing from the shipment.
And to top if off, they still owe me the caster kit.
My advice is NOT to buy from Lifts Unlimited in Springfield, MO.
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Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member
Username: Todd328gts
Post Number: 87
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 9:33 pm: | |
Rob,
We have the same car so check this out...I bought a 4 post lift from www.superlifts.com or (800) 526-9992. I have a two car garage with 118 inch ceilings, less the 11 1/2 inch center beam, gave me 106 1/2 inches to work with.
I had a garage door company come in and replace the builder's standard doors with insulated aluminum doors while extending the one garage door's tracks as close to the ceiling as possible.
Next I had an electrician come in and put in 4 sets of 8 foot flourescent lights (I still laugh at how bright it is...especially at night...the whole friggin' block is lit up!)
Lastly, I had www.superlifts.com (I spoke with Dan) spec out the exact lift I needed to fit my 328 on top of my 740iL.
The installer came and it fits perfectly with the top on the GTS. It fits with plenty of room when the center beam splits the 328 roof without the top on...Really Slick, especially the diamond plated dress up kit/ramps
You are more than welcome to call me at 973.884.9161
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Steve (Steve)
Junior Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 196
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 8:51 pm: | |
I've got the same as Lawrence. The Eagle 4 poster 7K rated. I have a 12 ft ceiling and also use it for storing the F car in the winter. I park my new Jag under it so I have a lot of trust in this system. Only drawback is that when you need to pull the wheels you need to use the sliding jack tray which is not as efficent as a 2 post setup.The good thing is I can move it around the garage and even outside (for engine washdown) when ever I need to. I pull it with my garden tractor. Cool setup |
Henryk (Henryk)
Junior Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 190
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 5:49 pm: | |
I have a Mowhawk (made in the US) 9,000 lb twin post lift. After researching many lifts I settled on the Mowhawk mainly due to:
Twin posts, with 2 hydraulic cylinders, one for each side.
No center connection on floor (no hump to drive over). They are connected by hydraulic lines above, at a 12 foot height (no chain running between the posts). My ceiling is 13 feet.
The post are 3/4" steel, not stamped. It seems that every part is 2-3 times thicker than any other lift I saw.
I have a F-350 diesel truck, so I went with the 9,000lb version.
The posts are 10 feet apart; OK for most car doors but rather tight for my TR. The arms are only 4 inches above the ground....but I still drive my TR wheels onto 2x8 boards to to give more room. I drive the car over to the right as much as possible, giving me more door room.
There are several safety features to prevent the car from falling.
I am 6'1" tall and am able to stand under any car.
I had it for 2 years now with no problems.
Rob: A symmetric lift has the car in the center of the lift.....as you drive into the lift, you would stop when the post is directly to the left of your head.....this is your most common lift.
An asymmetric lift is when only the front engine of the car sits between the posts....most of the car is off-center.....this is done with assymetric length arms that go under the car. The arms closest to the posts are shorter than those behind. This type of lift is limited in the lifting capacity due to it's offset nature. I hope this makes sense.
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Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 266
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 5:34 pm: | |
ASYMETRIC vs SYMMETRIC LIFTS
The symmetry has to do with where the lifting arms & posts are designed to be positioned relative to the car.
Asymetric lifts are designed for the posts to line up with the front edge of the car's front door, or the rear edge of it's rear door if it's backed-into the lift area. The front lift arms are is usually fairly short as they come almost straight out to pick up the car just behind the front wheels. The rear lift arms are quite long to reach back to just in front of the rear wheels. Some asymetric lifts have their rectangular posts mounted at an angle relative to the car to provide even more clearance for opening the door.
Symetric lifts are designed for the lift posts to line up with the middle of the car & the lift arms are equal length. This generally puts the lift posts blocking the car's front doors from opening more than enough for a vy thin person to squeeze thru. The rectangular posts are mounted parallel to the sides of the car.
With my 7K rated lift, I can pick my 308 up with the posts either aligned w/the front door edge, or with it just behind my rear door edge. Either way, I can open the doors.
Was very convenient when I was cleaning/lubeing my window drive mechanism. Also convenient when working under the dash. No more kneeling on the floor.
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Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 201
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 5:09 pm: | |
I have an Eagle 4 poster that'll lift 7K pounds. It has casters so you can move it around. Problem is my ceiling is only 8 feet so I can only get the center of the wheel to eyeball height with a sports car - less for sedans. I'm happy with it. It has two sliding beams that you can put jacks on to raise the car in relation to the lift.
I think I've had it for 4 years with no problem other than banging my head a few times on the tracks. It is a great help. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 1978
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 5:09 pm: | |
Thanks, great info. I'm still having problems understanding dif between assymmetric and symmetric.
My ceiling is only 10' high. This companies clear floor ones need a 13' ceiling. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 264
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 4:52 pm: | |
The lift you're looking is not a clear floor lift,
and it looks like it's a symmetric lift.
You really want both of these features:
An assymetric lift lets you fully open car doors w/o the lift posts getting in the way. It's a real pain if you have to lower the car & move it away from the posts just to get inside.
Clear floor means that there's nothing on the floor except the posts. Aside from not having something to trip over, you don't have to push a non-running vehicle over a hefty bump in the floor just to get it in position to lift. It also makes it easy to use the area for other things and to keep it clean.
If possible, hold off pouring the floor until you have the lift's mounting footprint. Most lifts are about 1/2" too high to go under a Ferrari(sigh). The arms can only come down to where the bottom is about 1/2" above the floor, at which point they hit the mounting plates on the bottom of the post. If the posts are mounted in a bout a 1" deep recess, then the lift arms can come all the way down to the floor & will nicely fit under a F*.
Also, if your ceiling joists run parallel with the lift, you could probably get up to another foot by positioning the lift such that the posts extend up between joists, and the cross-bar extends between them. If it's an all hydraulic lift, then there's no need to access the cross bar & top of the posts, so you could even enclose them within the ceiling.
Rotary is generally recognised as one of the top lift mfgs. But there are many others. Car dealers tend to trade-in lifts when they've fully depreciated them (usually after 5-7 years), so there are a lot of quite good used lifts out there. Try calling garage/automotive equipment suppliers in your area. Contact the service managers at several reputable shops & find out where they got their lifts. (I missed getting a 7,000lb lift from my local chevy dealer by 2 weeks. He sold it for $800!)
Plan for professional Installation:
Installation of any lift requires moving/lifting the posts which weigh in at over 1000lb!
MY LIFT:
I have a Nussbaum 7K lb assymetric clear floor lift. It's typical German engineering over-design. I believe they just changed the motor/pump for their 9K lb model.
It barely fits under my 10' garage ceiling. We did this by mounting the cross-bar upside down & cutting the hydraulic tubing down so the cross-tube ran along the lowered cross-bar. Two ~4" square extend about 18" above/thru the ceiling.
I picked it up used from a garage eqpt supplier for $2,200 installed. I've had it for 3 years now, and wish I'd gotten it 10 years ago. The only other comperable investment was my compressor & air tools.
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Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 1976
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 2:34 pm: | |
I'm finally getting my workshop built and want to ask about any advice with car lifts. I think my ceiling will only be 10' tall, so that limits me a little. I found a good lift for about $2,500 that is only 9.5 ft. tall. Here's the link, let me know what you think or any other advice...
http://www.e-autolifts.com/xl/xl.html
Thanks,
rob |