| Author |
Message |
Donny Bridges (Wildcatfans)
New member
Username: Wildcatfans
Post Number: 42
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 9:53 pm: | |
You're right, it's an 84 308,sorry for the confusion. Thanks for everyone's input. I'll check the O2 sensor first. I just got back home from the book store and bought both Aird's and Probst's Bosch maintenance manuals. This is an definitely a part of my car I need to spend some time learning. |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
Junior Member
Username: Eurocardoc
Post Number: 231
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 7:03 pm: | |
The profile says 84 308QV, that has Bosch CIS with lamda control. As Ed says, a bad O2 sensor will totally screw with the engine, poor idle and loss of power. As I said, it was unhooked for a reason, s**t for brains probably, and the correct thing to have done was replace not disconnect. try unhooking for a road test, then replace the sensor. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 912
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 5:12 pm: | |
What ever we are working on, if equipped with an O2 sensor the sensor will not send a useable signal until it reaches 600 degrees and the coolant temp reaches a preset temp for the car to go closed loop. If the car runs well cold but badly after warmup you can try disconnecting the 02 sensor and see if then the engine runs OK. If a sensor sends out a false signal it will drive you up the wall trying to diagnose the problem. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 911
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 5:07 pm: | |
I was not aware that we were working on a 1980 model car. We need to start posting and asking what we are working an as all Ferraris are not the same. One post said it was a 1988. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 618
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 3:39 pm: | |
Scott A. -- I believe that there is no O2 sensor on an '80 (K-Jetronic?) so that's not your idle problem.
Donny B. -- A car should run OK with the O2 sensor disconnected (as this is what it does during the warm-up phase), but it's not really "fine" IMO -- nor healthy long-term for the cat(s). The O2 sensor's function is to monitor the exhaust gases and tell the thing controlling the fuel supply (whether it's an ECU or a lambda valve) to add/subtract fuel to keep the air/fuel mixture close to constant. Go to http://amazon.com and do a book search on "Bosch Fuel Injection" -- I just finished reading Forbes Aird's "Bosch Fuel Injection Systems", and it covers K-Jetronic, K-Jetronic with Lambda, and KE-Jetronic. I've also heard that Charles O. Probst's "Bosch Fuel Injection and Engine Management" is good, but I've not yet read my copy.
Along Ed G.'s message -- the 3-wire O2 sensor for KE-Jetronic TRs is Bosch 13009 (just bought/installed a couple of fresh ones myself). |
Scott Anderson (Srandrsn)
Junior Member
Username: Srandrsn
Post Number: 96
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 3:09 pm: | |
Could a bad O2 sensor be a possible cause of an irregular idle? (On an 80 GTSi) |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 910
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 2:56 pm: | |
If you connected the oxygen sensor and it has been unplugged for a while then it is probably bad. It could be that there is nothing wrong with your FI system except a bad oxygen sensor. If it is a one wire sensor then you can pick up one at any AutoZone store at a fraction of the Dealer price. |
Donny Bridges (Wildcatfans)
New member
Username: Wildcatfans
Post Number: 41
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 2:06 pm: | |
I am looking at a wiring diagram for an 89 328, trying to figure out how the FI system works. Are the FI systems the same on the 89 328 and my 84 308? Does anyone have the electrical diagrams for the 308, as this would tell me exactly what wire go where (in particular those black wires on the engine harness)?
Dave says it should run fine without the O2 sensor. I thought it's job was to vary the air/fuel mixture, which should effect performance.
Finally could I get an overview of how the FI system components interacts (freq. valve, aux air valve, warm-up reg., etc.) This could potentially help me troubleshoot the problem.
Let me recap my problem: nonstable idle (can't see movement on tach but can hear exhaust pitch change)and loss in power. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 427
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 1:13 pm: | |
I have an alarm and never use it, will not touch the wiring for it though. Has more wires than the entire car. You are a brave man |
BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2044
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
I started removing the alarm system that a PO put in my car. May God have mercy on my soul doing this. If I was smart I would just leave it alone (I never use it and it all just sits there). He added two relays so the alarm can control the headlights and the fuel pump). The alarm bugged out in the rain like a year ago, I pulled the plug on the speaker (in the front passenger wheel well) to shut the damn thing up and haven't played with it since. When the alarm would go off it wouldn't do either of the things it was supposed to (open and close headlights, and shut off fuel pump). Who knows, what I do know is that I'm gonna pay if I start unwiring this stuff. |
Ken (Allyn)
Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 251
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 12:28 pm: | |
When I first got my Lotus I noticed lots of wires going to nowhere and unused plugs. It seems the PO did a lot of upgrades: electic fuel pump, electronic ignition, disconnected seat belt buzzers, etc. and he had a unique way of adding fuses, splicing, bypassing fuses... As I started connecting wires I started having strange things happen that were not good. So I learned not to futz with wires that were disconnected and just figure until something starts smoking I'm okay! |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
New member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 48
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 10:19 pm: | |
I had a vacuum leak on a QV once. The main symptom was backfiring through the intake while it was warming up. A tailpipe test can also give a clue. You can't get up to 90 on 4 cylinders, so it's clearly not that. Also the cats would overheat pretty fast with that much gas going through. Sounds like something electrical. Car shold run fine even with O2 sensor disconnected.
Dave |
Brian stewart (Eurocardoc)
Junior Member
Username: Eurocardoc
Post Number: 227
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 7:47 pm: | |
The wire you connected was the O2 sensor, someone pulled it off probably because they couldn't fix it properly. The lack of power and response sounds like a fault in the system. |
Donny Bridges (Wildcatfans)
New member
Username: Wildcatfans
Post Number: 40
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 7:42 pm: | |
I pulled a plug off today and could hear sparking, so all 8 are firing. The idle is not very smooth so now I am wondering if I have a vacuum leak.
Does this sound logical, what effects idle? |
Donny Bridges (Wildcatfans)
New member
Username: Wildcatfans
Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 3:19 pm: | |
Did you find it online, if so maybe you could send me the link and I could download? Again, thanks. |
Donny Bridges (Wildcatfans)
New member
Username: Wildcatfans
Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 3:16 pm: | |
Thanks, Jay. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 262
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 3:15 pm: | |
File is too big to email, even zipped. If you know of another way to do it let me know. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 261
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 2:52 pm: | |
Just looked at your profile, 88 308 GTSi. I've got the wiring manual for the 89 328 which I'll try emailing to you. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 260
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 2:50 pm: | |
What year 308? 2V or QV? I have some wiring diagrams. Let me know and I'll see if I have them. If I do I'll email them to you. |
Donny Bridges (Wildcatfans)
New member
Username: Wildcatfans
Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 7:54 am: | |
The project started out to be a brake simple brake job, but like most jobs I got off on a tangent. The previous owner didn't care too much about the underside of the car, as long as the paint was shiny. While I was cleaning I found other minor things that needed attention. One was a wire that had pulled out of it's connector. The connector was the multipin that is mounted under the oil cooler. I didn't know for sure where it should go because all the other pins had wires atached to them, so I assumed that it shares a pin with another wire. I removed the plug then another wire came out of the plug, it was black like the other one that had come loose. I removed the pin, reinstalled the wires and moved on. On the other side of the car (passenger side) I found a single pin connector that was disconnected. It was located above the vapor canister in the upper wheel well. The wire color leading to the connector was green. I reconnected this plug, but again am not sure what it does. Finally I removed all the electrial connectionsin the engine bay and sprayed them with contact cleaner. I finally got the car back together yesterday and decided to take it for a spin. I immediately noticed the idle (after warning up and idling down) wasn't as stable as it used to be, but blew it off since the car hasn't been driven for a while. On the road I it seemed to not perform as well as it did before. Nothing drastic, just not quite as strong when I accelerate hard. We drove it for 20 miles (up to about 90 on the interstate)then came home. While it was idling I removed a plug wire from the rear cylinder bank and noticed a decrease in rpms and sputter. I removed one from the front bank and noticed no difference. The idle is relatively smooth with all the plug wires connected and I didn't notice a gas smell from the exhaust as I would expect from not firing on 4 cylinders. I don't have a 308 wiring diagram, but do have one for the 328. Is the engine wiring similar or does anyone know what I reconnected? I plan on putting my EE degree to work today and start troubleshooting, but any help would be appreciated.
Thanks |