| Author | Message | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
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I have owned 5 Ferraris over the years an have always used Ted Rutland for parts. Not only is he cheaper than anyone else, he also stands behind what he sells. | ||
| Chuck Rine (Chuck348ts)
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Steve, 700 GBP would be about 1200 USD which seems very reasonable to me. | ||
| Steve Grey (Sjg)
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I've (well a specialist did) just replaced the clutch in my '92 348TS. At first I thought the slipping was maybe due to a faulty seal leaking on to the plate(s) where the car had been laid up over the winter, but after stripping the clutch down it was clear that it had worn through to the studs. The signs of wear that I experienced were after allowing the car warm up the clutch would slip during mild to hard acceleration in 3/4/5th gear. The previous clutch was a recon (new fibre on old plates) and lasted all of 5k miles...might of been my driving style but even so I opted for a new unit. I'm (sort of) lucky because the clutch is a single plate so it's about 40-50% cheaper for the parts. All in including fitting (plate and rear cover as the old one was cracked), OEM parts and VAT was 700 GBP. I'm not sure how that compares to the US but seemed pretty reasonable to me. Steve | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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TRutlands is pretty much the best for wholesale items like clutches, brakes, etc. They were somewhat typical Ferrari in that it took them a little while with my stuff, but it did get there and in good condition. Nick is much better for specialized things that aren't found in large numbers. Nick will also always point you in the right direction for whatever you need if he doesn't have it. Also, for small random things that you don't think anyone would have, try Algar Ferrari in Philadelphia, PA. For a couple small things I ordered from them and they had it to me the next day. | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
|
I have yet to buy anything from Nick, but have requested for information and pricing from him. Of all the different companies I have dealt with in supplying Ferrari parts, he has the FASTEST response time! Some of the rest can take up to a week to respond! Not only that, he follows up with subsequent e-mails to check! | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
|
Caribe -- I've been very pleased with the service, the prices, the support, and the parts themselves that I've received from the gang at T. Rutlands, and can easily recommend them as one of the good F part suppliers for a privateer to know/use. Steve M. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Ditto. Back to cars now. Great!! | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Listen, I think it's time to stop picking apart personalitys here. We all know both guys by there comments on the chat line. Nick will always take the time to help anyone. Peter is the kind of guy who always spoke highly of Nick and always approached his comments to anyone in a fair and reasonable way. I feel that there has been a"BIG" misunderstanding here between these guys. I've said it before, that on the chat line you are not talking to the other guy face to face,therfore you don't read in voice inflection, facial expression and body motion. These are important in any communication between two people. We should all be aware of this and be very careful how we make our comments. MAGOO | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
|
You people need to give Peter a break. All he is guilty of is shopping around. If anyone has ever ben into Wal-Mart then they are just as guilty as Peter. If I loose a customer it is not the customer's fault. It is my fault. I did something that turned him away. Was it price? Service? Attitude? Is service worth a price? Of course it is, but how much? Wal-Mart and Self Service Gas has taught us to be more self sufficient and less relient on knowledgeable people and to figure things out for one's self. Business owners can ••••• and complain, but if they do not face the reality of todays market then they can pick up their application at Wal-Mart. | ||
| Adelina Vallese (Dina)
|
Interesting reading. Although I do not know Nick Scianna (yet), it seems he goes out of his way to help the Ferrari fraternity. Yes I have sifted through Ebay and bought a couple of books models etc, but when it comes to assistance with parts..., loyalty and trust are paramount. If you have someone you can trust and offers assistance AND lunch, then I would never go running off to save $100 on an Ebay bargain. That perceived saving is not worth 5c compared with the help and advice that an experienced Ferraristi can offer. Love to you all - Dina | ||
| James Pai (Jaymus)
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Ya, Nick is great. I just ordered a set of track pipes from him for my TR, they are very high quality pieces like he described in an e-mail. He also made a follow up call to me, to talk about the install. I haven't done it yet, I am going to tackle that with some help from friends tomorrow. Nick also told me to call him about the install if I have problems! Great customer support and outstanding guy!! James | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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Wow, Ted Rutlands, a hell of a nice guy by the way, never invited me for lunch! Lunch with Nick Scainna, that's what I call a power lunch! | ||
| kelly vince (Tofosi1)
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Nick you the man!!!!!! | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
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Peter.YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN like allot of your ANSWERS to questions on this chat site.I specialize in custom Ferrari work,not cheap parts.I prefer to sell quality parts that come from my suppliers in Italy,or that are custom made for us or by us.If I am asked to beat someone else's price on something as long as its the same item,it has NEVER been a problem.The REALITY is Peter you live approx 20 miles away from me and I even invited to buy you lunch at my Restaurant and talk about your engine and what you need for parts and I told you I would help you out,and you never bothered.Maybe I intimidated you.Herbert waited just over 30 days for his CUSTOM ignition system.I know he is happy with the results.Nick.. | ||
| Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
|
If the pilot bearing is brass, no harm will come if it happens into the tranny. I would drive the car until I see the first sign of slippage, then replace and repair. Last clutch job I had to do was very obvious- Honda civic, fifth gear- step on the gas at 55 to 75 and the tach climbed. I still drove it for weeks after this till I could have it done. You tenderfoot it and it will get you home. Mechanically speaking, as a clutch wears- the pedal will engage closer to the firewall(front). There should be a threaded rod between the clutch pedal and the master cylinder so you can set the engage height. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Well Christian, when I spoke to Nick a while ago, it seemed he got OEM parts from conventional places like Rutlands, etc...Maybe things have changed since then and he can get parts cheaply. Yes the Magic parts are made by him and can probably be supplied quickly and cheaply. Although after speaking privately with Herbert and his distributorless-ignition system that he ordered from Nick, wasn't too impressed with how long it took to get it. What are my motives? I've just been going along with what I uncover upon working on the engine. The reason buying the clutch from George? At the time on Ebay, it looked like a good deal and checked with a few places and it was a good price. So I bought it. The reason buying eight new exhaust valves from Superformance? Because I was in England and visited the place and he gave me a good deal on them. Etc... This is how I've been working on my car. I'm not going all-out like your Mondial, I'm just replacing the tired old parts with the like. And these places had the parts, at prices I liked. That's all. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Peter, Peter: Still don't understand what you are doing and what your motives are. I checked prices for my TR with George at evans (nice guy though) and with Nick. Nick was able to beat all of Georges prices and I know if there is a problem he WILL solve it. You are so close to Nick - maybe you can give me (us) some information why you don't buy from him. George still has to come back on some information I requested from him weeks ago  Take care, Christian | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Wish I had your skills. Since I have the time, I would gladly do the work myself -- only if I knew how. I can do some things but what you are doing is beyond my abilities. Hope it all goes well Peter. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Why am I changing my clutch? 1) The engine is out of the car and apart, so easy to do it now. 2) Do it now during this downtime, because once my car is on the road...it'll stay there! I don't want to go through all of this and then pull the car off the road to do something I could've done before. I will admit that my situation is unique in that I'm doing all of the work myself and since its just a toy car, I'm in no rush to get it done. I also expected to do alot of work when I got the car last year, when the salesman said: "it just needs a good tune-up"... And how many thousands am I into it now? You get what you pay for. But I don't regret it a single bit. To answer your question Magoo, yes the car didn't seem to have alot of GO when I would floor it, I just blamed that on other things, now I see that the clutch was slipping due to the mess on the flywheel and pres. plate. I got my clutch kit (328, still fits in a 308) from Evans Automotive in Columbus, Ohio, when he posted one on Ebay last month. Paid under $400 for disc, pres. plate, pilot bearing, T/O bearing. THIS WAS AN EBAY PRICE, I don't know what he retails this kit for. Compared to other places, this looked like a bargain. Sounds like he gets regular shippments from Italy, so he could be a possible source: http://www.evansauto.com | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
If you are doing the maintenance yourself then the costs of going in a changing things piece by piece is just your time. If you are paying someone here is the breakdown resurfacing -- $100 - 175 throw out bearing -- about $150 from a non-dealer. seals etc -- another 100 other bearings -- Another $150 Do the math and notice if you spend $1350 on the clutch assembly and it is all open just go ahead and save yourself the trouble of having to open it again for a cheap seal. Personally, I do not see the savings if you already are spending 2000 dollars. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
|
I'm been looking into having my plates redone as well. My 88TR has 13.5k miles on the original clutch. If I do get the plates resurfaced, what is the consensus on the pressure plate and throw out bearing? Should they be OK or should they be replaced regardless. Also, should anything be done with the floater plate between the two clutch plates? Thanks in advance! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
|
What about rebuilding the clutch? Any experience with this? I heard from a reputable source that the clutch surface material is the same used for other clutches, and all they need is specification on the thickness of the material. About a $100-$200 job, and should be as good as new. Is this true? Thanks, Caribe. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
That is a good question. I guess it depends on your budget. I realy like to drive my car (almost 10,000 miles in the last two years) and if it in for service I like to do what I can especially if they have to open it up. This way I hope to keep it running instead of taking it in for a fix here and a fix there. And if something seems to be getting close to needing help, I might just do it so I don't have to deal with it later. The main barometer I use is the labor of getting to the part in question. Once your in the engine, might as well do some things cause its the labor that hits you most of the time. The clutch on the TR is easy so it may not qualify here but for example, if Caribe does do the clutch I would recommend the flywheel resurfacing, all bearings changed, gearbox oil change etc and all seals changed. Since you already paid to be in there -- the parts are cheap. Would be crazy to pay for opening it up again for a 40 dollar seal four months later. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Michael, what is cheap insurance, dollar wise. How much to purchase parts and pay for labor? MAGOO | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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P.S. It's just as I said to Peter, If you don't have any indication of a problem but you want peace of mind, replace the clutch for insurance reasons. MAGOO | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Ok, so we do agree more than it sounds. Caribe, I echo what magoo says -- do not change the clutch if all checks out well and you are convinced its OK. If you have any doubt/reservations then going at it now is cheap insurance. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Michael, no one can second quess a noise such as that and be sure that it was that bearing without inspection. In all fairness to that tech. he didn't have x-ray vision . You had the noise and decided to spend the money to further diagnose the problem. However if there is no indication of a problem and it passes the basic tests, why replace it? Insurance? MAGOO | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Hey Michael, I know your not calling me names. That was just a joke for Caribe. Again you are telling me that you had a telltale noise in your clutch. I am saying that if all appears OK and it passes the slip test, why replace the clutch if all seems OK? NO offense taken re: name calling. MAGOO | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Magoo, I am on your side about useless changes more than you think but feel is not everything. For example, my clutch felt great, shifted smooth but I thought I heard a little extra noise one day but it went away. I was told by one very knowledgable mechanic (name will go unmentioned) that it was a simple throwout bearing noise similar to many TRs. Clutch still smooth, shifts beautifully, no slip etc. I decided on instinct to ignore the advice and take it into another mechanic to investigate -- well a bearing was happily shredding in its housing and brass was in danger of getting into the transmission etc. All unseen, all felt well, all ran well and operated well but it was ready to blow up. I could easily see how another driver would ignore such a transient occurence and the next problem is a big one. I agree that if it checks out with the mechanic that driving is fine but Caribe -- have the parts and money ready to do the work as you do not know when you will need one. Plus if your mechanic is going to charge you to look at the clutch then change it -- with your parts prices half the cost is the labor of going in there. Magoo, as for the names I am calling you they are good ones -- political correctness is a waste of time and it is fun to talk with people who have real opinions who stick with them and have some backbone. Just as long as we stay civil a spirited exchange of ideas is a blast!! | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
HEY Buddy, again no one has x-ray vision. How long was your clutch in that condition? I'm sure you didn't abuse it. How many miles did you put on it from the time you purchased it? I'll also bet when you bought your car you didn't say,"This clutch is bad and I will soon have to replace it." It all boils down to this, If the clutch seems ok under a slip test why replace it now. Unless you want the insurance of a new clutch. If you want to spend the money for peace of mind, go ahead. MAGOO | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
May I add Magoo, that even though the disc on my car still had some meat left on it (based on the only visual check through the inspection hole on top of the bellhousing), it was only when I dismantled the engine that I found the flywheel and pressure plate heat-checked and cracked (you've seen my pictures here before). This was something that could only be done by taking it apart. Considering the amount of horsepower going through that clutch and the collective knowledge that Ferrari clutches, no matter how easy you go on them, still don't last as long as your typical daily-driver, it may be a good (but costly) decision to change. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
ARNALDO, look at the problem you've caused here. I'm calling Christiank, Michael and who knows what they are calling me. I still don't believe in insurance replacement on a maybe. Get a professional opinion where someone can look at the car. These guys have the knowledge, they're just not there to see the car with hands on. Be sure before you blow all that money on a repair not needed. Best of luck. MAGOO | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Sorry Christiank I mistook Michaels response for yours. My mistake. However Michael since it was your response it seems that you are talking insurance here. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Christiank, I guess you could apply that to the engine,but he won't overhaul it, the trans, but he won't overhaul it and so on. What Michael is saying is that he owns a TR and is familiar with this type of failure knowing of 5 other similar clutch failures. That should tell you something. Of course no one has x-ray vision but all you are talking about is insurance where you replace it just in case. If you treat everything like that, it could get very expensive. MAGOO | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
|
Christiank, I do not have any background data. And to be accurate two of the cars were not TRs, but I stick to the statement that if "you do not know the treatment it has gotten in the past (ie: was it a car that was put on the track?) then from a preventative maintenance point of view you could do yourself a favor." Your request is only good if you know history-- current condition is not history. Too many things look and feel great and are ready to break. Some things feel not so great and are brand new and will last forever. Mechanical devices are not perfect but can be predictable IF you know the starting point.-- I can only assume that Caribe does not have x-ray vision -- so if he cannot see the clutch condition then he does not have a starting point on which to judge the clutch. Maybe the former owner is trying to tell him something since he did mention the clutch may need to change. Ben, Craig and you are correct if you know where you are starting from -- for example since I changed my clutch in the TR I will use the more liberal standard -- since I know what I have. In the case of a car just bought etc. -- you may want to be ahead of the game. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Yeah Christiank, But then you can beat a horse to death or pick the pepper out of the fly sh-t. MAGOO | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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This conclusion is only true if you can bring data from those 5 TR where the clutch died. How was the mileage on those cars, last clutch change etc. Maybe the clutch broke just 1,000 miles after a new one was put in because the guy who did it didn't know what he was doing. What about changing the transmission too because this is obviously a weak part. That discussion doesn't make too much sense too me but you always get the answer you are looking for if you ask long enough. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
MICHAEL, It just shows you that this is a different animal. Since you have a TR and know its short comings as well as the good side and I am sure you have done research on it and that's good enough for me. You know the old Packard ad,"Ask the man who owns one". Thanks for your explaining this as I know some of the other guys were under the same impression that I was. MAGOO | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Magoo, For regular cars I am in your camp (my Saab's first clutch change was at 130,000 miles) but since I have owned the TR I have met 4 people whose clutch just died in their Ferraris (while on the road). Actually, I know 5 because I remember a thread here when someone destroyed transmission gears just to get their car home and not leave it in the woods. 5 is a big enough number for me to stay ahead of the game. Just my luck I will be the one with the quick failure. My response is better called peace of mind not preventive maintenance. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
|
Don't adjust it, change the fluid, it's probably as old as the car. You have to use DOT4 brake fluid, it works the same way as changing the brake fluid, it's the nipple on top of the clutch housing. You can find the reservoir beside the brake fluid reservoir when you remove the carpet under the front hood. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
I agree with Ben and Craig. A clutch usually doesn't blow up under normal driving and leave you stranded on the side of the road. There will be telltale signs of slippage etc. True, riding high is a indication but has anybody tried to adjust the clutch if it can be adjusted on a 90 TR? MAGOO | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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The TR manuals states that if the clutch is LOW it is a sign of wear  | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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What Ben says is accurate but is really defined as a personal threshold. Clutches can fail slowly or quickly depending on the car. If you are planning to drive your new TR on country roads or out on extended highway trips you might want to consider doing the clutch within the next 2000 miles. Cheap insurance as compared to standing on the roadside 150 miles from home in my book. If it is riding high that is an indication of wear. How much wear -- you do not know -- who is to say the other owner did not "adjust" it the same way you are planning on doing it. Unfortunately, the way I look at it if the clutch has never been changed, riding high and you do not know the treatment it has gotten in the past (ie: was it a car that was put on the track?) then from a preventative maintenance point of view you could do yourself a favor. It really comes down to how comfortable you feel about judging something you cannot see or know the of its operational history. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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10/4 GUYS, I think the advice you just gave Caribe is correct. Here's my advice," If it ain't broke don't fix it". MAGOO | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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The test I've used for clutch slippage is to put the car in top gear at about 30mph and step on it (depends on torque available too). The car should pull smoothly with no slippage. Most cars have an adjustment for the height where the clutch grabs - not sure about the TR... | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
|
The Mechanic that did the pre-purchase inspection said that the clutch should probably be changed within the next couple thousand miles (it has never been changed). I drove the car, and besides the fact that the release point is really high (is there a way to adjust this?), the clutch felt good to me. I tried checking if it would slip by coasting to about 60 MPH and stepping on the gas hard several times (is there a better way?), but it always felt fine and responsive. The owner recommended re-surfacing the clutch plates to extend its life. Is this a viable option? He mentioned it could cost a couple hundreds dollars to do that, but if I can get a brand new clutch at a reasonable price, I rather get a new one when the time comes. Anyway, tommorrow we go over the emissions test. If everything goes well, and at this point I feel it should (just a formality for registration), I will be closing the deal most likely on Thursday. By the way, during testing the compression test came out to an even 175 for all cylinders, except 5 and 7 which cameout at 180. The plugs all look pretty good and even as well, and yes they have been there for a while. The mechanic said that the compression is on the low side of the specifications but since it is even it is a good indication of the wellness of the engine. Thanks, Caribe. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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I never replace clutches unless they are slipping, making noise or chattering. I try to be as gentle with them as possible so they have lasted a long time for me. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
|
To complete my thought on the "is it time for a clutch" idea, I was always under the impression that a clutch isn't really a PM (preventative maintenence) item. I always thought when it begins to fail/slip that's when it's time to do it. Anyone have other ideas? -Ben | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
|
Ted Rutlands is one of the best out there, but Nick is much more generous with his time, support and vast practical expertise. Nick will work out problems with you...great support for the shade tree guy. Ted will only sell you OEM -stock type stuff mainly - not performance products. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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The other bearing you could be thinking of is the pilot bearing. I have experience with T. Rutlands and found them to be good too. Excellent prices, a little slow but no problems. Of course It's always better to support Nick since he supports us... (JMHO) | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Ben raises a good point -- when was the last time the clutch was done (year and mileage)? How much miles since the clutch change? | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Since you are in there, you should change the 1) clutch throwout bearing and 2) examine the flywheel and see if it needs resurfacing. There is also 3) another bearing in there, I forgot the name but it used have brass bearings and there is a new steel bearings which are harder and more durable. I am pretty sure it is a one use bearing as once torqued to remove it can never fit properly again and the brass bearings can shred and enter the transmission -- not good. So that is three things I can think of -- ask Nick the name of that one bearing. Let us know what Nick says -- the more I learn the better. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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They get a big thumbs up from me as well... -Ben PS. are you positive that need the clutch done? | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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By the way, any other parts that I should replace with the clutch? Any suggestions about doing this procedure myself? Thanks, Caribe. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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Michael, it is a two-piece clutch and I asked the salesperson to confirm the price once more, since I also found it low. Thanks for the input gentlemen, I will give Nick a call as well to compare prices, but it is good to know that at least one of you have had a good experience with them, hence, replacing this major ticket item just got cheaper for me. Caribe. | ||
| david schirmer (David)
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I have had very good experience with T. Rutlands and know several other people who use them. I am not a major price shopper, but from what I can tell they are darn competitive. They are straight ahead and if they say it is an OEM part then you can believe them. David | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Caribe: Which clutch did you ask for, a one piece or two piece? If I recall correctly you may have two piece clutch in your 90Tr. 1350 seems kind of low for the two disc clutch -- I recommend you double check -- I think some earlier TRs came with one piece but most 90's have 2 piece clutches. Did you verify which clutch you have? | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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No experience with Rutlands but I have never heard anything bad about them. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Sorry Caribe, I didn't finish answering your question. Try Nick Scianna at 360-332-7779. Nick is very fair and always willing to answer your tech questions. He also participates on this chat line. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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I've always found Italian car parts high on all items. MAGOO | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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I called T.Rutlands to check on pricing for a 1990 TR clutch and I got a quote for $1350.00. I also asked for the Major Service Parts kit and the quoted me $700.00, plus another $60.00 for the water pump rebuild components. Are these prices reasonables? I have seen prices on other web sites such as the ItalianParts.com at more than twice what T.Rutlands is asking. What gives? T.Rutlands claims that these are all OEM Ferrari parts. Any experience with them? Thanks, Caribe. |