| Author | Message | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Sam, All vents are still flat black as from the factory (must be photo resolution). I painted bumper and targa top to match car, grill remains flat black with leading edges painted silver. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
|
beautiful job,, I noticed you painted your targa top tomatch the body and the rad vent and headlight vents look like you painted them a heather gray as well. really updates the car. Makes the car look less (kit car with tacked on blacked out plastic that was popular back then--I know the kit cars actually COPIED the 308 design) but it is good to see a color scheme on the 308 before one chances it on thier own car....so thanks for giving us a look...I like eru look and you go one better with it has a 328 look to it. | ||
| Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
|
As I return from Italy on June 20, I will post the pics of the grille I made and welded together. It is difficult to tell it from an original. I will be willing to make more of these. It can be made from aluminum stock in a day, it requires a sheetmetal brake to make the curved front profile, as well as a whole lot of little cuts and fitting. Anyone need anything special from the factory, I will be there this coming wednesday. Ciao Erik | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
I think these(after)photo's will work better since they are a lower resolution: This is a before photo:  These are after photo's:  :  | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
I think these(after)photo's will work better since they are a lower resolution: This is a before photo: \image {Ferr308race5} These are after photo's: \image {ferrari euro 4 s} : \image {ferrari euro 5s} | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
YOU'RE A GOOD MAN "CHARLIE BROWN" Thanks Paul. MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
I will try an answer all ?'s: All parts came from Nick, I belive Nick is somewhat hesitant to supply the bumper based on the trouble I had mounting it. Next week I will pull bumper off and make a jig to reproduce mounts so that Nick can send a "ready to bolt on set up" out to people who want to install euro bumper. The bumper comes in a raw fiberglass form and needs final finish and paint as does the euro spoiler. The grill need additional slats welded on to it to increase height and width, any good aluminum welder can do this. Euro models had the leading edges of the grill painted silver which I did by hand (USA grills are all black). As for the rear bumper trick (crude but effective) Just pull the rubber body grommet away from the body and with a 7/64 bit drill from the bottom straight up(as close to the body as possible)through both pressurized chambers(WEAR GOGGLES), then push bumper in and put rubber grommets back in place. Magoo, There is nothing wrong with being a purist and I appreciate the dialogue and I do respect yours and everyone's else's opinions with regards to Ferrari chat. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
I'm sorry, I didn't refer back to your previous comment on when you were leaving. Anyway have a nice trip. MAGOO | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
|
I do not leave until tomorrow. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Hey Herbert, Welcome back. It's good to see you on line again. No bad "OMENS" I hope? You know you called it right and this could have been said some time ago. The car does look good either way. Wait a minute aren't you back early or are you still away and on another computer? MAGOO | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
|
You know, I think the car looks good either way. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Paul, you do have followers who like what you have done. As I told you it "looks" great and updated. I guess I'm too much of purist when it comes to my cars.I'm sure this comes from being a collector of old American Classic cars. It is very tough to find one that has not been cannibalized or modified. When you do, this is the ultimate find to a "purist" collector. MAGOO | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
|
Paul, Your car looks absolutely gorgeous! Painting the bumper body color is what I had in mind. It really shows off that beautiful body design. Congratulations on a job well done. John | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
|
Paul, I think you just solved the mystery fo the QV's "tacked on" basket handle airfoil....it is a bumper for protection against SUV's...got to hand it to those R&D guys/gals in Modena,, count of Ferrari to be ahead of their time. Wher exactly did you drill into the shocks to "deflate them? Sounds like a crazy enough project that I would like to do..it | ||
| Dirk Rabenschwanz (Dirk)
|
Paul, where did You buy the euro qv bumper ? And how did You make the grille ? Dirk | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
PAUL, There's no doubt that whatever bumper you put on these cars the odds of surviving a crash are against you. The cars are designed like a sled with a shovel nose to pick up any thing coming at you. What we love about the car is this unique and timeless design. The last thing one thinks about when he gets behind the wheel of a Ferrari is that he is going to have a accident. Shock absorbing bumpers, stationary bumpers, no bumpers, on this car it isn't going to make a difference anyway. Love the car for what it is and drive defensivly. MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Magoo, The only reason I did the back bumper the way I did was because I found one of the absorbers to be dead (the seal had gone away) so i had one side that wouldn't stay out, so I drilled the other side and pushed both in. The fact is that the rear bumper is now the same as the euro car and still gives substantial protection since it is still structurally mounted to the frame. The new euro front bumper is hollow fiberglass and provides ZERO protection. I try and avoid the 16 years olds in their racing honda's and the 90 year olds in 4 ton caddys. I had already begun the process of replacing the front bumper before I came across the rear bumper situation, so it was to late to see if it would have worked + the USA bumper weighs 41 pounds and that had to go. I will say it again, if you think that those 15 to 20 year old bumper shocks are still going to their job I belive you are in for a surprise. Sam, as for protection against an SUV I would mount the bumper just above the rear window cause you could have 15 inches and it would not help. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Peter, I don't know if I agree that it would look stubby. There is some diff., but without having the two cars side by side, could you notice it that much? To answer your question, No I won't try it. As Paul said I'm a purist. MAGOO | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
It is too simple, Magoo. Look closely at Paul's photos. Notice the silhouette of the euro bumper is slimmer than the US one. If you just pushed back the US bumper, it would make it look stubby. But not a bad idea though, are you willing to try it? I'm just wondering about all of this though, are you not worried about less crash protection by deflating the bumper shocks? I know we don't want to think about it every happening, but these days licenses are just given away. Not too long ago I had a rear-ender with my daily driver, some prick talking on his phone, not paying attention. I couldn't care less about my daily driver, but if it were the Ferrari... | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Paul, I have a question that maybe you can answer since you have changed your bumper. Last night after our exchange of responses I was looking at my GTS front bumper. Why couldn't you have designed a mount out of a shorter pipe using the same type of brackets, thereby moving the USA bumper back creating the same look and not altering the grill? I'm sure that I am missing something here because it seems too simple. MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Magoo, Yes I painted the bumper which is not correct, as for the slats most of the distortion is from the camera but there is some from the fact that I had to modify the grill since the US grill has less slats then the Euro. I am beginning to look for the orginal euro grill and driving lights. By the way I saved all of the orginal US parts so that I can put car back to the way it came if I had to. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Paul what you have shown here "looks" good. It gives the car a more updated look. When you said you wanted to keep the orig. concept or style of the car I didn't know you were painting the bumpers to match the car since the originals were not. It is obvious your not a purist but then thats your choice. Looking at the closeup photos are the grille slats distorted or is that the grain in the picture? MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Here is the before (euro treatment) photo of my 83 308qv (before I bought it) :  And this is after (euro treatment) photo of same car:  | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
|
OK...One man's garbage is anotherman's treasure. If anyone wants totrade their good USA rear bumper "energy absorber" bumper shock for one that is already deflated --naturally not by any drilling. I will gladly make the exchange!! Another crazy tip: These bumper shocks are so old that I think, if you want euro bumper look the easiest way is simply to slowly back your USA bumper into a solid (I mean solid) vertical, smooth wall and compress the shocks, My guess is that you will blow the seals and the bumber will not rebound. DISCLAIMER: This is theory I have not done this. Be careful or you could mess up the rubber bumper (cover it to protect its cosmetics) and be careful in reverse...peril...one shock rebounds and the other does not result 1/2 euro bumper and 1/2 usa bumper! You are stillcarrying around the weight though...for myself,I drive/park the car everyday so for my experience I would rather have another 5" out there for protection. esp with all the SUV's around...hay how about another thread on the nuerosis of how we park our Ferrari's angle into two spots for protection but display tothe wall how obnoxious we are taking TWO spots... park it yourself vs. valet? any thoughts? | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Paul, I couldn't have said it better myself. You have just explained what I have been trying to say in our exchange of comments. And as I said before I like the look of the Euro bumper. I just think the installation could be a little more professional for a car like Ferrari. I'll be looking forward to seeing you pics. regards, MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Magoo, I am not a collector of Ferrari's I am one of those people who drives their Ferrari every single day and even in the rain. I will actually be sending my front brackets to Nick so that he can (if they meet his high stanards)use them as a template so that other people can get rid of that "orginal USA Design" front bumper. I will post before and after photo's later today. We disagree but that is OK, Paul | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Magoo, Let me get this straight, if Nick approves of my bracket design to mount the euro front bumper then you will deem it acceptable? I find Nick to be a great source of knowledge and in the short time I have known him I have think we have become good friends. When I gave a way for people to return their rear bumper to Euro standards I started by description of this process by stating "this may sound like a crude way" understanding that I may offend some purists. I must add I am not a collector of Ferrari's I drive mine every single day and when people ask if they can touch it I say of course. I agree that we disagree, and that is OK. Paul | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Paul, I repeat what I said previously. If you want to alter the car in such a manner, it's your car. I just don't agree with the way you did it. There should be a better way of doing the conversion without doing what you did. Nick Scianna mentioned previously that he could design something that would work using the Euro bumper. The USA car came originally with the extended bumpers. So you did change it from the orig. USA design. Many collectors and others see it as orig. and thats what they feel it should be. Lets wait and see if Nick comes up with the same idea of drilling out the absorbers and making the other changes that you did. Granted he did say that he would make other brackets, thats a given since the Euro's and the USA mounts don't interchange. If Nick does it the way you did it then I stand corrected. MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Magoo, The originality of the car was destroyed by the US DOT, all I have done is made true to its design. I disagree with your belief (but I do respect your opinion) that the original design is what was done to the car by the US DOT and I truly belive that Mr.Pininfarina was not real happy with what the DOT did to his design. I also belive that Enzo Ferrari was not real happy about Air pumps and Cat Cons and I removed those too. Nick offered to tool Brackets to mount the front bumper, this is what I did, in fact the euro mount brackets I designed mount in the US brackets welded in the front of the car so not to change the integrity of the car. I would also add that the impact shock absorbers become useless after 15 years, 2 of the 4 on my car had leaking seals. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Paul,the bumpers on the USA car do set out more, but when you drill the shock absorbing cyl. to let the oil out and compress the bumper and have to makeshift the brackets for the front bumper it just seems that the originality of the car is being destroyed. Don't get me wrong,I like the look of the Euro bumpers, its just the process that you described which messes up an orig car. But since you own the car you can choose to do what you please. There must be a better way to do this as Nick indicated. MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Magoo, The acomplishment is that you end up with the car as it was truly designed, it was the US DOT that took a beutiful design and aborted it. The US front bumper destroyed the lines of the car. The european look is what Ferrari produced and it is a work of art, I am truly glad to have return my car to original design. | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
|
Magoo, You're right. There were a few U.S. cars with the Euro bumper conversion available when I was in the market for my car. They looked pretty cool with the smaller bumper. It seemed a simple matter of a bumper like the one that is on the car now, just smaller. I will have to look into this a little further and see what different products are out there. Maybe some are more complete and more compatible than others? John | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Hey guys, not to rain on your parade. The lighter conversion sounded great, but after reading the pros and cons you guys have posted here It seems like a lot of trouble with very little accomplished. Also if you want to change it back to orig. later on, what then. MAGOO | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
John, The euro air dam (spoiler) has no effect on the grill size as the air opening (grill) does not change. The only change that effects the grill is the switch from US to euro bumper, when you make the switch to euro bumper you will find that you must add more slats to the top and sides of the grill. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
John, The procedure for the rear bumper will not work on the front bumper. | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
|
Thanks for all the responses! This is a great forum! Paul, sorry I did not get your e-mail until just now. Did the addition of the Euro air dam solve the problem with the grill? Also, can you perform the same exciting procedure on the front bumper? Looking forward to seeing the pictures. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Having just completed installation of a fiberglass euro front bumper on US 308qv I will tell you that it is no simple bolt on procedure and involves some hours in a machine shop making custom mounting hardware along with fabricating a new grill (US grill is not compatible with euro bumper). The one thing that must be clear is that when you are finished doing this conversion it is truly worth while, I will post photos in a few days as today I finish front end with installation of the euro air dam. PS. This may sound like a crude way to bring "rear bumper" into euro specs but it works and only takes five minutes and maintains bumper rigidity. Pull the rubber seal that goes around the impact shock absorber away from the bodywork then take a 7/64 drill bit and drill into the shock as close to the car body as possible. IMPORTANT: You will drill through two pressurized chambers, when you hit each chamber a quick release of oil and gas will happen WEAR SAFETY GLASSES!!!!! After completing just push bumper in, Your bumper now sticks out approx 3.5 inches less. (Some people just remove steel spacers but that only moved bumper in less then 2 inches.) | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
|
Hi Nick, I'm pretty confident about what kind of car I have - it's definitely a Euro version (see pics in showroom - "my blue baby" - please tell me if after viewing pics you feel otherwise) and I'm confident the bumper they sent me did not fit! Whether it was a US bumper or a poor Euro make, I'm not sure. What I do know is that I'm calling you next time I need something - it pays to "shop around" | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Sorry, how did duplicates happen? If we hit it twice it used to flash up the warning and only print once. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Nick, what are you doing up this late? Are you saying that the Euro is that much lighter than the USA face bar? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that John was trying to use the Euro knock off fiberglass face bar for less weight and better appearance. MAGOO | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Nick, what are you doing up this late? Are you saying that the Euro is that much lighter than the USA face bar? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that John was trying to use the Euro knock off fiberglass face bar for less weight and better appearance. MAGOO | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
|
Hi.Here is the Problem.What we really want is a bumper that looks and weighs the same as a Euro but bolts into the US spec car.The Euro bumpers are not a direct bolt on to a US spec car.If I can find a few hours or I have enough requests I can Produce them so they are a direct bolt on,but how much will the public pay for a bumper like that?And to the person who ordered the Euro bumper from Italian car parts,you probably really did get a Euro bumper,but you have a US car,That's why you had a problem with the fit. Regards Nick Scianna www.nicksforzaferrari.com | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
|
John, I would think that you can modify a Euro bumper to fit a US car although it may be a bit of a hassle. I actually just finished replacing the front bumper on my 85 QV Euro car. I ordered the bumper from Italian Car Parts and after a 4 week wait I believe they sent me a US bumper instead. They claim it's a Euro bumper, but it clearly didn't fit, so rather than waiting another month or more for a replacement, I modified it to fit. The actual replacement process is not all that bad but to modify the bumper required cutting the fiberglass and drilling holes for the turn signals to fit properly. All in all it looks fine but it's not perfect. I would not recommend Italian Car Parts as I feel I paid way too much and again, I feel I was sent the wrong part. If it was indeed the right part, it clearly was an inferior product. Good luck. | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
|
Thanks for the input everyone. The concern with eliminating the 40 to 50 pounds at the ends of the car will affect the rebound response of the suspension. Maybe this can be handled through the shock absorbers? I've seen prices in the $500 dollar range for these bumpers. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
I don't think the standing height would be affected that much if any. I've had my face bars off and couldn't tell any difference. What is the price of fiberglass Euro's and can they be purchased in the USA style? MAGOO | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
|
Try Nick at forzaferrari. He is probably cheaper than others and has the patience to explain you the conversion. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
|
Contact Doug Perone at berlinetta motors in Long Island, NY he sells these things and I think advertises in Forza | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
|
Does anyone have any experience with putting those fiberglass Euro bumpers on a 308? I am playing with putting a set of these on because of the sleek look the car takes on with these bumpers and the weight savings. The original bumpers will be kept of course to change the car back to original if needed. I was wondering how easy the change over would be and if the springs need to be changed due to the change in weight at the ends of the car? Any information will be appreciated. |