| Author |
Message |
david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 203
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:15 am: | |
Well I just got my 328 GTS back from a major service. It was difficult shifting into all gears at certain times. Kind of intermittent problem (car is new to me, and didn't notice on the test drive). Anyway, I brought Mobil 1 gear oil, and my mechanic put it in, he was sceptical. To his astonishment, it fixed the hard shifting problem.
I'm happy as can be.... |
Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 55
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:10 pm: | |
Billy Bob, in your earlier post you stated "linkage adjust: disconnect linkage, put gearbox in 2nd, reconnect. ensure shifter is equidistant in neutral i.e. sits in middle. Lock down lonknuts on shift rod adjuster. If you are off in neutral left to right then loosen one lock nut and
adjust shifter accordingly and relock".
In essense what you have said here is to adjust to center neutral, which is exactly what I prefer. So is the referance to fecal matter in the spirit of shareing knowledge? |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 278
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 9:54 pm: | |
I'll try anything as long as somebody else goes first. |
Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 54
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 7:52 pm: | |
Verell, by that I meant that while it has been a closely held project as far as outsiders knowledge, the tooling is now up on Nick's site. Billy Bob, everyone is entitled to do as they wish. If you prefer to adjust in 2nd, feel free to do so. However, after more than one 308's "bad synchros" problem going away by adjusting this way, I personally would not go back to the old way. I find that neutral adjusting is not only faster, but the results have shown me. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 44
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 5:58 pm: | |
Matt wrote:So often people follow rules without asking why ( Adjusting in 2nd ) that they miss out.
I posted about adjusting from 2nd so I guess 'll defend it. Matt...You miss out if you don't do it that way...if you think about "why" you adjust from 2nd as a reference point you then understand "why" you do it. Yes you can do it many ways. You can also crap solid or have diarehha. It all comes out in the end. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 330
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 4:48 pm: | |
Matt,
re:"Now that it has been "outed" in Nick's site, "
How's that again, I'm not following what you're referring to ... |
Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 53
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 9:37 am: | |
Now that it has been "outed" in Nick's site, You may find an interesting way to deal with this shifting issue. I have spent months studying the issue , and came up with a solution. So often people follow rules without asking why ( Adjusting in 2nd ) that they miss out. At the Forza, we tend to think "Why Not?" |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 275
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 10:23 pm: | |
I don't have a scanner for the article so I cannot email. Send me your fax# or address and I will get it right out to anyone who wants it. I have a photocopy at my office and it is no trouble at all to send it to anyone who wants one.
Paul- yours was mailed this afternoon. |
Matt Morgan (Kermit)
Junior Member
Username: Kermit
Post Number: 51
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2002 - 9:24 am: | |
I am looking at two tranaxles right now, both upside down, pan off. One 2V and the other a 4V. In iether case I do not see a place that would require drilling to release trapped oil. Dr. Cosgrove, at your convienence, please E-mail me that article as well. Thanks. |
Robert Johnson (Carb308)
New member
Username: Carb308
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2002 - 9:35 pm: | |
Bill V.
I have the exact problem. I have replaced the bushings (plastic parts) on the bottom of the gear selector, replaced the bushing in the linkage at the trans, removed the oil pan for the gear box to properly adjust the linkage (and fix a leak), but still the problem. It is harder to shift into 4Th and 5Th at high RPM, so at this point I suspect that the clutch is "umbrellaing" (is that a word?), due to the centrifugal force at high RPM. This may verify the results that Robert Davis had. I will try the tip by Mike to reverse the gate first as it may have been reversed by the P.O. when the interior was done (the car has allways had the problem). After that it's double clutch it on high RPM shifts or change the clutch. BTW, the car has allways been easy to get from 1St to 2Nd with only minimal warming. I have had Valvoline synthetic before and have Modil 1 in it now for the second time with no detectable difference between the two.
Thanks to every one. I learn alot from every post. This is a great site.
Good luck to all!
Robert |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 270
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2002 - 5:43 pm: | |
OK, I found the issue #127 and this was what I read also. I just photocopied it. It's one page. anyone who wants a copy, email me your fax # and I will send it out to you. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 10:51 pm: | |
verell,
what you want is "prancing horse" #127 by david goldsmith. Finad a way to get me your e-mail and I'll send you a copy. I do not recommend part of the fix. It think it is beeter to do it from inside the gearbox. I'll tell you why later. |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 266
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 9:19 pm: | |
It's not in Forza. I read it myself several years ago. Whatever it's in it was printed after Sept 1997 because that is when I bought my car. I want to say it was in a FCA monthly newsletter but I am not completely sure. I'll start looking around. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 322
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 9:06 pm: | |
STILL SEEKING HOLE DRILLING FIX FOR BALKY 2ND GEAR
I've been looking for a copy of the article (Forza?) describing this fix. Anyone have it, or
a description (better yet, a photo) of where the hole s/b drilled?
Everyone seems to have heard of the article, but no one seems able to come up w/a copy. |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
New member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 11:59 am: | |
This happened to me when my mechanic had reversed/rotated the shift plate when reinstalling it. Occasionally the shifter/trans would seem to "bind" going between 4th and 5th only. Drove me nuts, had the linkage adjusted and the oil in the trans changed. Then I found that my reverse lock-out didn't lock out and found that problem was the shift gate being 180 degrees off. Rotating the shift gate back to where it belonged fixed the 4th-to-5th problem immediately, never came back. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1029
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:53 pm: | |
Bill V. -- the (5) Cu washers are all 22mm x 27mm x 1.5mm on 308/328 for engine/gearbox oil work. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 441
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 8:23 pm: | |
Yes bill, you fill through the side gear cover until it runs out the gearbox hole at the rear of the gearbox. It takes four liters if you just want to fill it and be done with it. If you want, pull the gearbox fill plug before you do anything to see if it pours out indicating an overfill. |
David Jones (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 326
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 8:14 pm: | |
Bill, just as a thought, check the heat shielding around the front header to see if it is a little loose and down from it's normal location rubbing against the shift linkage. |
Bill V. (Doc)
Junior Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 126
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 8:01 pm: | |
Thank you all for the great advice. I had the car out tonight for a nice cruise and noticed that this doesn't happen everytime. However, when it does, there is a real sticking point at the exact midpoint between 4th and 5 th gears. Before and after that balking point everthing is fine. Also, in examining the position of the stick , it appears very close to dead center in neutral and appears to be where it should be in the gate in each gear. I have a feeling that the lube change may make a difference.
A couple of Q's about refilling the gearbox: is the proper procedure to fill through the gear transfer case until oil runs out of the gearbox filler plug? Are the copper squash gaskets for these plugs ( ie the transfer case drain and filler plugs and gb fiiller and drain plugs) all the same size as the motor oil drain plug gasket?
|
david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 192
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 1:33 pm: | |
Hans,
did a quick "google" search, there is only one Mobil 1 gear oil available. Keeps it simple :-) |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 159
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 12:05 pm: | |
Are there different 'versions' of Mobil 1 gear oil - with and w/o positrac additive? The reason that I ask is that Redline makes a regular and 'NS' version of its gear oil. If there is more than one Mobil 1, which do you use? |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 11:04 am: | |
Bill,
linkage adjust: disconnect linkage, put gearbox in 2nd, reconnect. ensure shifter is equidistant in neutral i.e. sits in middle. Lock down lonknuts on shift rod adjuster. If you are off in neutral left to right then loosen one lock nut and adjust shifter accordingly and relock. Make sure rubber shift bushing is good comong out of GB. This bushing gets lots of oil on it and fails whcih screws up your shift. Ferri does not use detents on the shift rod in the GB. Sometimes the allen nut that hold the pawl slides on the shift rod and changes the charator or 4/5 shift. Then there could be syncho issues yada yada yada... Do the easy things in increasing order of difficulty I.E. change oils, inspect linkage, suspect GB.
Paul,
Bill's ordiginal post says "I've noticed that my '85 308 shifts rather hard from time to time--especially when moving the stick to 5th gear" Thus my post about GB "generalizations" including the "hydralic" fix by drilling GB. Even with charges in oils many F's still have 2nd ans the balkiest shift. Cars with the drill modification still shift better although many cars seem to have very acceptable shifts with just oil changes. |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 171
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 7:05 am: | |
Had the same problem with my 308, replaced the clutch, had the flywheel machined, lubed all the points, adjustments everything. Replaced the gear oil with Mobil 1.....Instant results, I can'nt believe this is the same car. Shifts like a dream. Goes from gear to gear with little or no effort. Can even speed shift without a mishap. In days gone by when I raced blown drag boats, I used Mobil 1 in my 2 speed Lenco and in the casale gear box and they always ran smooth and never had much wear on the linings (they are oil cooled). Now I am a true believer in how well it works. Give it a try. |
Bill V. (Doc)
Junior Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 124
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 6:45 am: | |
The problem seems to be worse when the car is fully warmed up and 4th gear is also a bit difficult to get into, but not quite as bad as 5th. I will check the gear oil level and may switch to Mobil 1. Re: the external linkage adjustments, how does one go about doing this? Also, are there any lube points on the linkages? |
Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member
Username: Gts308qv
Post Number: 230
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:47 am: | |
Is "some of the time" hot or cold? Have the linkages correctly aligned. If that doesn't work, it could be an internal problem. |
Mitchell Minh Le (Yelcab1)
Member
Username: Yelcab1
Post Number: 357
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 1:08 am: | |
Bill
I had the hard-to-shift into 2nd problem before. I recently filled it with Valvoline Synthetic Gear oil, and what a difference! Second gear when dead cold is smooth as butter. Now, if I can only keep the oil from leaking out the vent hole! |
Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member
Username: 350hpmondial
Post Number: 153
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 10:58 pm: | |
Billy,
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA a aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ,,,,,,,,,,, A penny downthe pipe ???????????????????
<<, Don't work on a pice of jewlrey with full pockets'''s'''s''s
eeay,
|
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 435
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 10:00 pm: | |
Im running synthetic 75/90 mobil one. I have no problems and second also is no trouble cold. The fix billy is refering to applies to 2nd gear. Not 5th. |
Matthew Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 59
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 9:20 pm: | |
Bill,
Since you had it filled recently, I would say the it was overfilled. Does it shift hard into 4th as well since the fresh oil? Ferrari recommends synthetic so I disagree that it would cause problems. There are ajustments to the shifter but the are directly under the center - center of the car. a lift is in order. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 30
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 8:38 pm: | |
There are 4 fixes. One fix requires drilling a small release hole in a specific place in the gearbox. That reduces the hydralic pressure that helps to cause some balkyness. The second fix is to experiment with differnent gear oils and weights until you find what works best with your car. For whatever reason all 308s of a specific year don't run best on any one oil. Third is to make sure the shifter linkage is adjusted proeprly on the outside of the gearbox and in the gearbox. Fourth, is to look for failed parts that are holding up linkage movement such as a penny which has fallen down into your gate. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 189
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 8:01 pm: | |
Disagree, try another fluid. I used both redline and Swepco in my 308 GTS, with so so results. I have heard that Mobil 1 works best with balky Ferrari transmisions. I am having it put into my 328 this week.
|
Bill Steele (Glassman)
Junior Member
Username: Glassman
Post Number: 80
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 7:54 pm: | |
Get rid of the synthetic oil. I used to use it and never will again. It is problematic with cars that are designed without it. |
Bill V. (Doc)
Junior Member
Username: Doc
Post Number: 123
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 7:46 pm: | |
I've noticed that my '85 308 shifts rather hard from time to time--especially when moving the stick to 5th gear. A fair amount of pull is required to get into gear some of the time. The gearbox was recently filled with Swepco synthetic gear oil and the clutch appears to be working well. Is this typical for these cars? If not, are there any external adjustment linkages and/ or moving parts to lubricate? I squirted some lithium grease into the socket area beneath the gate, but it didn't seem to make any difference. Any ideas about this symptom or the cure? |