| Author | Message | |||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 323 Registered: 5-2001 |
re:"R-134 has a reputation for not circulating oil well, burning up compressors after time." R134a circulates either of the recommended types of oil(Ester or PAG) quite well. What it will not circulate at all is the mineral based oil used with R12. You hear of people just adding one of the so-called retrofit kits that adds a few ounces of compatible oil. This works... for awhile... The small amount of oil gets circulated over & over & does all the lubricating the system is getting. It's over-used & degrades, at which point the compressor experiences 'black death'(aka burns out). That's why it's imperative that, at a minumum, the old oil be drained/siphoned out of the compressor, the system flushed with a recommended solvent to extract the rest of the mineral oil, & a vacuum pulled before adding R134a & a compatible oil. BTW, Lots of people report they don't do the solvent flush & get away with it. I've heard this explained as working because the rest of the mineral oil settles somewhere & the R134a compatible oil floats on top of it where it gets picked up by the circulating refrigerant. R134a can cool pretty well. My Euro 308 GTS QV was converted to R134a just before I bought it 3 years ago. I just topped it off last night as it had lost capacity over the 3 years. It was 98-100 degrees outside my car this afternoon while I was driving in 20-30 mph traffic, on low van I was getting 48 degrees at the center defrost vent. With high fan, the vent temp was 64 degrees. I won't claim I was chilly, but I was quite comfortable. This morning, driving to work at 40-50 mph, outside temp was 84 degrees & I was getting 44 degrees with low fan & 54 degrees with high fan. I was definitely chilly after a while. These temps were after the interior had been cooling down for 5 - 10 minuites. I suspect I've got a bit more R134a in my system than would produce optimum cooling. My compressor input pressure was ~40 psi with the engine idling, and ~35 psi with the throttle reved by hand to maybe 3,000 rpm(educated eardrum swag)... I researched this quite a bit about a month ago, & got some excellent advice from other F*chat members. See: http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/105688.html?1029638233 in the recent archives. It has several links to Web sites with info on R134a conversion & A/C in general. The consensus is that when done right, an R134a conversion will cool as well as the system did with R12. However, the amount of R134a is critical. A bit too much or not quite enough & you loose a lot of cooling capacity. BTW, I've heard of people getting a lot more airflow out of their 3x8 A/C by just pulling the highly restrictive lower directional vent controls out for the season. | |||
| Dan Marlett (Ferrari_dan)
New member Username: Ferrari_dan Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey guys, I lied...twice. The cost of the A/C compressor was $248.25 not $220.00 and I am not going to wait until I get back to post this receipt. And John if you are in the Dallas area you are more than welcome to come by and experience the A/C on my 328 for yourself.
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| Dan Marlett (Ferrari_dan)
New member Username: Ferrari_dan Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey Guys, I have a convention for work for the next 5 days so I am pressed for time. When I get back I will post the receipt for the compressor (Nippondenso part # MCYC-99) as well as pictures of the vents. It honestly keeps me cool in 100-degree weather...NO EXAGERATION! | |||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2001 |
Frank - Something told me I had to say "no offence to the B-210". I'm sure most of them still run. | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1323 Registered: 9-2001 |
John, I know what you mean . My 328 was black on black and was unbearable in the summer. By the way, the Datsun B10 is a great car and would probably take a 328 on a tight road course. | |||
| Kurt Kjelgaard (Kurtk328)
Junior Member Username: Kurtk328 Post Number: 128 Registered: 3-2001 |
The US 328's came with York, whereas Euro cars have a different setup - ND? I don't know | |||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2001 |
Thanks for all of the response, guys. I am just totally amazed when someone tells me their 328 air keeps them cool. I can not imagine. Dan, please post a picture of your vents. Maybe I could do some aux vents under the dash where a judge would not look. What upgrade size auxiliary fan should I get? I saw threads on Hayden Fans, but that was for the radiator. Also, on some older threads someone mentioned using R-406A. It is an R-12 replacement that uses the same oil, thus dryer & such. Check out www.autofrost.com It cools better than R-12 (not to mention the cost)and works well at low pressures, unlike R-134. Mike, the 328 has a much smaller condeser than a QV. I was warned by my Benz mechanic that small condensers have a real problem with 134 as soon as the pressure drops a few PSI. I don't feel confident in my Nitrile hoses not to leak. Also, R-134 has a reputation for not circulating oil well, burning up compressors after time. Can someone give me a part number for the best compressor? Mine works fine, but I suspect the seals may leak. I need to do something so I can drive in this heat. It is unbearable. I also need to check to see if my heater valve is stuck open. I mean, I am cooking! Anything I can do myself is great, like the aux fan. I hate to leave my car with some AC guy who will leave it outside next to the rusty Datsun B210 he is working on. | |||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 251 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think one of the weakpoints of my 328's system is low air flow. Another is a fall off of cooling at low rpm's. It's ok on the highway or with my foot on the throttle with car stopped. But it won't cut the mustard if it is 100 F outside. My car is black. The removable roof could be much better insulated. | |||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
New member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 41 Registered: 8-2002 |
I switched out my 308/QV to R134, and it keeps up just fine on days with 90+ temperature outside... | |||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 320 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dan, What compressor was being replaced? Another ND, or a York type? Could you pls post a photo of the 'less restrictive Toyota vents. Maybe someone will recognise them. | |||
| Carmine Nicoletta (Ncarmine)
New member Username: Ncarmine Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dan, it may be agood idea to post the part number for future reference. Thanks | |||
| Dan Marlett (Ferrari_dan)
New member Username: Ferrari_dan Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2002 |
I have a Nipendenso compressor on my 87' 328. It is off of a 91' Ford Mustang. This apparently was the same compressor that most update to at the dealer. I bought it last year from McCain's A/C in Dallas ($220.00). The Ferrari dealer gets all of their compressors from McCain's. Mine blows ice cold. It keeps me comfortable even in 100-degree weather. This compressor mounted in the original brackets with little fabrication. Also the center vents were replace with less restrictive vents from a Toyota. Not sure what type of Toyota, the previous owner had changed them. I was also told NOT to switch to R134a. At McCain's they had a customer that changed on his 308 and was now reverting back to R12. | |||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 527 Registered: 5-2002 |
You can only oversize a condenser so much before the thing starts to act like a receiver.A better or aux. fan would be cheaper and probably better.Unless he is talking about making your condenser more efficent fin wise,uturns,ets but still keeping the same capacity. You get into a lot of enginering ?'s when you tinker with this stuff. I'd want to see where a bigger one is working ok in another car before I would do it.jmo | |||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1320 Registered: 9-2001 |
The early 328s came with a York piston compressor where the later cars had a ND rotary compressor is my understanding. I know my 1986 328 had a York piston compressor because I had it replaced . | |||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2001 |
First, I need to know what it is about the '89 328 air that makes it better or different than an '86-'88. We were shooting around the idea of making the condenser bigger. I'm open to any suggestions. Also, has anyone converted a 328 compressor to 134? Tinkering with R12 is real expensive. | |||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Junior Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 247 Registered: 4-2002 |
What does he plan to do to "customize" it? | |||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2001 |
I was crying to a fellow today with a BiTurbo about the poor AC in my 328. I have been thinking of converting to R134 lately. Well, the other day, I was warned that this may not work well with such a small condenser. So, this Maserati chap says there is a guy who can customize my AC to freeze me out. Has anyone else done this? I'm open to ideas. But, I will not be satisfied with the air just being adequate. |
A/C receipt