| Author |
Message |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 192
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 3:40 pm: | |
I heard cats taste like chicken...hell have a cookout... |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 354
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 2:47 pm: | |
re: "the cat sleeping on the warm engine cover bolts off leaving his marks"
Oops, forgot to mention this happened too. Minx again.
Attempting to remove those scratches is how I found out that my bonnet is the only panel on my car that's been resprayed with 2-stage paint.
(Yes, I do have a 1"x9" patch where I compounded thru the clear/base down to a layer of single stage paint(sigh)...
Hmm, When I was a kid growing up in TX, there were these stories about the lack of cats around the little place on the other side of the railroad tracks that sold BBQ hot link sausages. |
Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member
Username: Rem9
Post Number: 99
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:27 pm: | |
Yikes,
Seems like it's time to invite the cat to dinner at a local Chinese Restaurant. Just don't let on he IS dinner. At least that's one way to :
A) stop the problem from happening again
B) get some use out of the cat
Another suggestion might be to have a polishing cloth made. A little wax and you're good to go, just use circular motions.
Sadly some folks don't realize how destructive cats and dogs can be. Nothing like pulling into a friends driveway only to have their dog jump up on the door with claws leaving 12" scratches in the paint. Of course the insult to injury part comes when as you leave the cat sleeping on the warm engine cover bolts off leaving his marks. I suppose there are those folks who think it's cute. All I want to do in situations like that is add a fur lined wheel chock to my tool collection.
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Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 351
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:36 pm: | |
The mood I'm in, I 'like to give Minx (the cat) swimming lessons with a gunny sack & concrete block for flotation assists. She's really become persona non-grata w/my wife too: Clawed our new $2,000 leather couch!
The vet gave my son some plastic claw covers for her front paws. They glue on w/crazy glue & last for about 3 mo before they grow out. Saves the couch, but her hind claws really got the paint.
I guess I'm back to constantly keeping a cover on the car.
One more episode like these & she's going to 'Kitty Angels': http://www.kittyangels.org/ which is where she was headed when my son came up with the 'soft claws'.
Also, while she's a damn smart cat, she is not a people cat at all. Won't cuddle, sit on your lap, or tolerate being held for more than 5-10 sec. Only my sense of responsibility has kept her around here. |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
Junior Member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 9:31 pm: | |
Verell-Congrats, sounds like you got there and now have the rest of car to do to match. Don't worry about a couple of the deeper scratches, I think I'd worry about the "CAT" doing some more damage. Ha, let us know what your going to do about that. Again, congrats on a job well done. Roger B. |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 190
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 9:00 pm: | |
Verell, I always respect your opion and knowlege............whatever works for you, all the best. You are right about the old days and the old tech of lacquer...of course there was a few dozen coats to remove unlike 2 coats in a single stage and 2-3 coats of 2 stage with up to 2 coats of clear......Clean and wax any paint too much and you will bust the color...I am not digging up what I say out of my back pocket, I have about 22+ years of playing with paint, from mild to wild and love what I do....I try never to knock what someone has to teach me...If you tell me a DA will consistantly cut an even amount of material off the surface over a period of different stages then I must be wrong with the techniques I have used....I will have the sample that with paint mill guage and get back to you. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 348
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 6:18 pm: | |
Robert,
Removing scratches & bringing out a gloss are two sides of the same coin. You've got to take off just enough material to level out the scratches & at the same time leave an extremely smooth surface when you're done.
BUFFING DOES IT MORE QUICKLY:
You can use a fine abrasive & quickly remove enough material with a high-speed buffing wheel to get to the final stage.
However, there's an art to doing this w/o damaging the paint.
A DA DOES IT, JUST MORE SLOWLY
You could use the same fine abrasive with a DA & eventually get the same effect. Alternatively, you can use a series of increasingly finer abrasives, Using each stage just long enough to reduce the marks left by the preceding stage to those left by that stage. Trick is to remove enough, but only enough at each stage to get to a uniform set of scratches characteristic of that stage's 'grit'. This can go relatively quickly as well.
YOU CAN DO IT BY HAND IF YOU'RE WILLING TO TAKE LONG ENOUGH.
In the olden days, hand rubbed lacquer jobs produced phenominal color depth & surface gloss. It just took many, many laborous hours to achieve the effect.
SUCCESS AT LAST!
I used Roger's suggestions, except that I used terry pads until the glazing step where I used the foam pads. I'll get another set of foam pads before I next detail the car.
I went back & started with a new can of white rubbing compound, then worked my way up thru the
finer grit abrasives. As I suspected, the Finesse-It is definitely more course than the 3M Rubbing Compound.
Took me about an hour to do the whole front of my car because I would stop & check on progress every few minuites. I could do it again in about 2O min now that I have a feel for how fast each stage cuts.
I ended up with my hood actually glossier than most of the rest of my car!
The hood still has a few of what were really deep scratches. You really have to catch the light just right to see them. Some were portions of a couple of the worst original cat scratches, & I apparently got some others from the 1500 grit paper. They'll come out with another round of 2000 grit, etc. However, since I didn't spot them until I'd waxed the entire car, I think I'll wait until the next time I detail it.
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Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 188
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 3:25 pm: | |
One more thing a DA is going to polish...you need to buff to gloss...I just don't see it happening after color sanding without some RPM behind it...IMO |
Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 187
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 3:23 pm: | |
Remember...you are going to keep hee hawwing with that DA till you finally eat enough material away and you end up painting it...if you can'nt use a high speed go to a detail shop, I would imagine for a few bucks a guy there would be more than happy to knock it to a shine for you. Shoot if you were here I would do it for free and it takes less than a few minutes. I paint and buff almost every day, a high speed buffer is a little scary ay first, but if this is on a flat surface there should be no prob...just a quick run over with some compound and BAM as good as new..... |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
Junior Member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 67
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:11 am: | |
Verell-since your not comfortable with your rotary buffer yet, by all means don't practice with it on your F-car. Continue on with your DA and turn the speed up but not top speed. Try a little more pressure down on the tool while using the back and forth motion. Always go in the back and forth direction of the length of the car and try to never go cross-wise to the length of the car. I prefer not using wool pads in this type of application-they can cut too much and a foam pad is much more forgiving and I just don't like the terry pads. The ones I use are 3M Perfect-it Foam Polishing Pads P/N 051131-05725. Since you have the 3-M products you should be able to get 2500 grit at your local PPG paint store, also the foam pad. Sounds like you take very care of your F-car's finish and I would recommend never using a wool pad unless your doing some major scratch removal, even then the foam pad with the correct products will do the job and as I've said are much safer. I think your sequence is ok except 1)-don't run the DA at max., just try a little more pressure and use a foam pad. Also, don't use rubbing compound at this point, its too abrasive and its sound like your almost there. So start with 2) with a foam pad and not top speed with a little more pressure, then 3) and 4). Also, I prefer using diapers or old cotton t-shirts for the wipe downs. Terry has a tendency to leave light scratches if not used properly. Again, a lot of this is technique. If you want to learn how to use the rotary at a later date I'd be happy to work with you on it. Its a little difficult not doing it in person but we could give it a try. Again, don't get too agressive, you need to know when to fold so you don't go thru the finish. Roger B. |
Robert Moore (Nail_it)
New member
Username: Nail_it
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:31 am: | |
3M makes a extra cut liquid rubbing compound, Perfect-It III. I've used it to remove sanding marks and deep scratch. Works very good. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 268
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 6:20 am: | |
I've had good results with Meguires swirl remover, a rotary buffer, and foam pads that attach via Velcro to the buffer. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 345
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 9:45 pm: | |
Robert, Roger,
Sounds like you're suggesting an rotary type buffer. I do have an 8" air rotary buffer, but am not comfortable with it yet.
My DA is a Craftsman DA air sander with a 8" red foam buffing pad on a velcro type mount. I can certainly get it to go a lot faster than I've been running it by cranking the valve open.
WHICH PADS ARE RECOMMENDED WHEN?
I have both terry and a wool buffing pad.
When is the wool pad recommended? I'm under the impression that it was reserved for a final dry polish.
I also have a copious supply of all cotton white terry hand-towels.
2000 grit is the finest grade of color paper I've been able to locate at any of the local auto body suppliers. None has 2500 grit or finer.
ABRASIVES:
Here's what I have:
Red Rubbing compound
White Rubbing Compound
3M Rubbing Compound "Body Repair, Fine Cut, Clearcoat safe, Safely removes 1500grit or finer scratches." - I usually give a light buff with this before glazeing & waxing.
3M Finesse-It "Finishing Material, Easy clean-up" "This product will remove scratches from 1200-2000 grit abrasives or prior compounding step. - Have only used this to hand ccompound after a chip repair. Maybe I should have been using it instead of the 3M Rubbing Compound.
3M Finish Restorer "Body Repair, Removes swirl marks & light oxidation, clearcoat safe, leaves a deep,rich-waxed finish" - Seems to be a cleaner/wax combo. I only use it as the last treatment for a chip repair when the current wax job is good.
Perfect-It Glaze for light finishes and a 3M egg-crate foam applicator pad. - I normally go to this after a light pass with the 3M rubbing compound.
RainX wax - I really like the final finish it produces & the ease of use. It also doesn't turn black trim white. It can be used on vinyl targa tops & spoilers.
Given this particular problem, which do you recommend, in what sequence?
Based on what you've written, My current thinking is to use:
1) the white rubbing compound on a terry pad with the DA buffer at max. speed.
2)Followed by the Finesse-IT Finishing mat'l on a fresh terry pad & max DA buffer speed,
3)then the Perfect-It, &
4)finally wax it.
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Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member
Username: H2oquick
Post Number: 185
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 6:26 pm: | |
Verell hate to hear that, but you are way safe....the problem is that you need to go to a higher speed machine to obtain the scratch removal. And a machine buffing compound medium grit will be fine. We color sand using 1000 grit and have even used 600 followed by 1000 on black and have gotten it out. I suggest around 1200 to as high as 1900 rpm (either electric or air buffers are fine)...a DA does not turn fast enough...I am telling you this from very much experience...my boss calls me "buffy" at the paint shop. If you need any advice feel free to email me and I will help you out....... |
Roger Blakeman (Roger)
Junior Member
Username: Roger
Post Number: 66
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 5:52 pm: | |
Verell-yes, you are going the right direction and it takes time, patience and technique. I think you should wrap your sanding block with 2500 grit and lightly wet sand the area your having trouble with and instead of using water use a very light solution of soapy water. This provides a very smooth and slippery surface and then use a terry cloth towel to mop up afterwards. Also, clean up any residual that may have dripped on other parts of the car's finish. I've had very good luck with the final polish on numerous show cars by using Meguiars Speed Glaze. The cutting power is fairly low and its great for removing minor scratches and swirl marks. However, I use a heavy rotary variable speed buffer(a DA buffer just doesn't hack it for repair work) and by regulating the speed for a particular application(faster for more cutting action) decreases the amount of time taken to do the repair. However, if your not experienced in using one of these buffers, I will recommend you use the product(Meguiars) by hand using a clean slightly damp cloth and apply it sparingly in a cicular motion until the product is gone and there is no more drag on the cloth. Then buff the residual with a clean, dry terry cloth rag/towel. Check your work and repeat as necessary and you'll get there. Just don't over do it because you obviously don't want to go through the paint. After your satisfied with what you've done apply a coat of wax to the areas you've done and that should be it. Hope this helps, Roger B. |
BobD (Bobd)
Member
Username: Bobd
Post Number: 644
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 5:26 pm: | |
Verrell, is the 3M polishing compound called "Finesse-it"? This stuff works wonders. But even when this stuff is used, you still have to buff with a final polishing compound. Be careful.... don't go through the paint! |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 344
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 5:02 pm: | |
The hood is a classic single stage paint, I've got bright red buffing pads to prove it.
The cat marks are gone, I'm left with sanding marks that I can't seem to make go away. I've been saying 2000grit marks, but they could be residual 1500grit ones that the 2000grit paper left behind.
I've polished for a good 15 minuites with the 3M polishing compound. If it's left marks, then I need one or more intermediate grit abrasives before I use it. I'm just not sure what's available that's finer than 2000 grit. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 275
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 4:56 pm: | |
I think you are going in the right direction. The thing is, you are removing material in extremely tiny amounts with the ultra fine polish. This is how you need to do it, to minimize the risk of going through the paint. Its going to take considerable time and care to get the deeper cat scratches out without going through the paint
What kind of paint is on the car? Is it base/clear? If so, it may make more sense and be easier to wet sand and then have the hood re-cleared. Then polish the new clear coat. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 343
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 4:45 pm: | |
BACKGROUND:
I walked into the garage last nite just in time to startle a cat perched on my hood. She took off, leaving 4 sets of claw marks in the paint!
After futily trying to take the cat scratches out with a 3M 'clear-coat safe' polish that 'Removes 1500grit & finer scratches', I gave up, took a deep breath & color sanded my hood.
COLOR SANDING PROCESS:
I wrapped 1500 grit sandpaper around a the soft side of a soft/firm 3M sanding block. Then wet sanded the scratches using only back-n-forth strokes. This pretty much removed the cat scratches, but left the sanded area covered with
very fine left to right 1500 grit scratches.
Next 2000grit:
I then wet sanded in the same directon with 2000 grit. This left much much finer 2000 grit sanding marks, and finished obliterating the cat scratches.
3M Polish Didn't take out 2000 grit marks!
I used about a marble sized dollop of the 3M compound on a terry pad on an 8" foam backing pad in my DA air buffer using a medium speed. I buffed the hood until the compound was dry. Then I used a terry towel to remove the rest of the compound's residue. Unfortunately, while the 3M Polishing compound brought out a lot of glossy color, it didn't remove the 2000 grit marks!
Next step was to wax & hope the wax removed the remaining marks. (It didn't).
WHITE COMPOUND, THEN RE-POLISH HELPED, BUT DIDN'T FINISH THE JOB:
In desperation, I dug out my 20 year old can of Dupont #7 white rubbing compound & again polished the hood with the DA buffer & a fresh terry pad on the 8" foam backing pad. I didn't have quite enough white compound to really thoroughly buff the area. It made a noticeable improvement. It also reduced the 2000grit marks but still left some of them. It also added some very fine hook-shaped markes characteristic of a DA polisher.
I then went back to the 3M 'clearcoat safe' polish. It still wouldn't take the remaining fine marks out, nore the remaining 2000grit marks. Now the whole area is quite glossy, & the paint looks 'wet'. but you can still see the 2000 grit marks. They're very noticeable when you compare that part of the hood to the fenders, or the unsanded part of the hood in front of the louvers.
OUT OF IDEAS...
I'm out of ideas. About the only thing that I have that I haven't tried is some 3M FinesseIt which claims to take out 1200-1500 grit & finer marks.
It always seemed to do about the same as the 3M clearcoat safe polish.
Was I wrong to sand in the same direction for both 1500 & 2000 grit?
I don't want to take any more color off w/o knowing I'm going in the write direction. |
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