| Author | Message | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 159 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ken, This is very important.....follow my instructions. Ship your car to me in Florida. I will let you know if it's ok in a month or so. ;) | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Junior Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 230 Registered: 4-2002 |
oil analysis techniqes show up particles typically only if <5 microns, stuff above this will be missed. Bearings dont always fail with small particulates being liberated as precursor to larger sized ones. My business is diagnosis of aero engine health, one aspect of this being the analysis of particulates liberated from an oil sample. i.e. not SOAP. How's the relationship with sis post F trauma? | ||
| Robert Johnson (Carb308)
New member Username: Carb308 Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ken, Sounds like your car will be fine. Just remember, never lend anyone your tooth brush, your car, or your girl friend. Cheers! | ||
| allan fiedler (Allanlambo)
New member Username: Allanlambo Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2002 |
wow, i should be happy with my wife then. shes 25, and drives all my cars including the diablo. when she was 21 , she was cruising all around town in my 308qv. never had a problem. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2045 Registered: 12-2000 |
I've hit 8500 RPM on several occassions (some intentionally, some not) and no problems. Sounds cool (a sharp scream...)  According to claims made by Nick Scianna, Veglia tach's are not accurate and can be off by as much as 2000 RPM (meaning it could very well have spun at 11800 RPM... Giddie Up!) | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 187 Registered: 4-2002 |
Again, all the caveats apply, but I have talked to quite a few people who have missed shifts in their 308s, seen around 10K, and lived to tell about it with no apparent problems. It would bother the hell out me, tho. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 142 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bill: I have spoken with several people this week who have informed me that they have hit 9,000 + rpm in their 308. From what I am told, Ferrari bench tested the engine at 9000 rpm and had no problems. | ||
| Bill V. (Doc)
Junior Member Username: Doc Post Number: 147 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ken--I'm very glad to hear that your motor is OK--140 and still ticking--sounds good to me! These engines are pretty robust. I didn't think that one over-rev would do much. Enjoy! | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 139 Registered: 2-2002 |
Knock on wood (did I say knock on wood?), the car appears to be ok. The ticking noise I hear was the alternator belt (it was loose) and I drove the car 200 miles to the Morristown FCA event without any problems. Being that I was able to hit 140 while chasing a TR, the car seems to be running strong. Ken | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 273 Registered: 4-2002 |
Seems to me she should not have been aggressive with someone else's car, particularly when it took some begging to drive it in the first place. Furthermore, you ought to know whether you're going into second instead of fourth because of the resistance the synchros will offer as they cause the spin up to match gear speeds. Sounds like she is a little ham fisted. I would have chewed her out also. | ||
| Robert Davis (H2oquick)
Junior Member Username: H2oquick Post Number: 193 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think you are taking that to a lil extreme....it is a Ferrari it should be tough enough to take some mishaps. A missed shift can happen to the best of us. My wife was tempted one day by another...a kid in a Jetta GTI revving his engine, she went to take off and it did not lock in first gear. Of course the RPMS flew way up there, she let off jammed into first and caught him in second. It worried me a little (maybe a little more than that), but if that car can'nt take any abuse at all then what good is it. And as far as engine damage goes, rods and wrist pins are usually the first to go. Bearing damage can occur but usually not in a short duration of revving where not alot of heat from high rpm have been displaced for long periods of time. Valve damage very unlikely as compared to valve springs being damaged or broken. We used to turn the blown alky motor in our dragboat in the 9's alot and never suffered any damage, but of course we pull the motor down every round. I think you will be ok, try not to be to hard on sis...remember it is just a car, cars can be fixed. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 134 Registered: 2-2002 |
In response to several posts, I really do not recall how the car sounded at 9800 rpm. I totally freaked and started yelling at my sister. I was never going to let her drive it, but my wife was giving me a hard time about it so I let her drive it. This gives me a good reason to tell my wife that I have to sell the car and to get a Boxer. I have already told my sister that she has to pay for a rebuild and perhaps a new clutch and trans too. She also has the option of buying the car which would probably be cheaper. While the car may be fine, there is a ticking noise that we now hear and I really do not want the car any more. Why should I have to worry if the car will need a rebuild in the next several years? | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 357 Registered: 11-2001 |
My sister keeps asking to drive my car. The answer she gets is " NO ", and will continue to get that answer. An associate of mine gave me some very good advice and I will pass it on to you. When any of my friends or family ask to drive my car, I tell them, that unless they can afford to replace it don't ask. That ends the asking very fast. I am more than happy to give them a ride, but them drive it, I DON"T THINK SO! | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 625 Registered: 2-2001 |
I am with Craig, how did that thing sound? It must have been screaming. When my friend did it to mine I don't think he took it that high. If he did I sure don't want to know about it. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 492 Registered: 12-2001 |
I wouldnt be concerned about the bottom end at all. The oiling system is very good compared to a domestic or most imports. The top end is fragile in any engine compared to the crank and bearings. I blew a shift in a 427 camaro a few years back and had the pleasure of pulling the head off to replace a valve for free (it wasnt my car). I knew I hurt it the moment it happened and I saw the tach go off the scale but thats all it hurt. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1999 Registered: 2-2001 |
I was with Chevrolet back when the Cosworth Vega debuted. The clutch burst test is usually done on a machine with an electric motor to see how many rpms it could stand. They did the test with the clutch on the engine on the test stand and went over 10,000 rpms and the clutch and engine both survived. If a Vega can take that kind of abuse then A Ferrari should be able to. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2001 |
Im curious about how you cleaned the stains off the seat when you let that brick loose. Sounds like the seats may have more damage now  | ||
| Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
New member Username: Gagatep Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2002 |
extreme hi-rev without valve noise after event tells you your car didn't experience an immidiate failure - but you know it experienced extreme wear and tear that would reduce your engine life - since you and your mechanic has already checked it out - just keep driving and don't hold a grudge against your sister - mistakes hapen btw - my brother did the exact same thing on my cousin's porsche 15 years ago - immediate damage to the car was bent valves and 1 piston | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member Username: Craigfl Post Number: 453 Registered: 1-2001 |
OK Ken... Now that the pressure is off and you know your car is probably OK, I'll ask the question that we all want to know about ----- How did it sound at 9800RPM? | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 311 Registered: 9-2001 |
I would be glad the pressure plate and clutch disc are still intact | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2001 |
Im sure this will cause many new threads but, And although I think most agree your car is fine. Main bearings, and rod bearings can become scorn at this rpm. I know from racing many cars, the basic rule of thumb is about 500miles for anything to show up from a bearing failure. Bearing failures dont just start to make noise. Im not trying to scare you but the price of an oil sample is about 25$. I agree with everyone else that your probably ok. But 25$ is well worth it so you can sleep at night. In fact, if I had a sister I would make her pay for it. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 133 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks for all of the input and support guys. I just got back from seeing my mechanic and he thinks that I am OK for now. He said that if something was damaged, we would hear it. The only noise we hear is what we think may be a loose belt, but we are not sure. Neither of us remember hearing that noise before. Until that noise goes away, I am going to keep my fingers crossed. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1995 Registered: 2-2001 |
I always qualify my statements with "Probably" since I am responding to a vehicle that I have never seen and am going strictly by the description. Anything can happen at any time to an engine. If this had happened to me and the engine did not run any differently than before, I would do nothing and forget it ever happened. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
New member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 50 Registered: 5-2001 |
Take a sample of your oil, and you can send it to a lab. They will tell you everything you want to know about your engine. These days they can probably even tell you if your sister has driven it. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 490 Registered: 12-2001 |
If it makes you feel any better, the tach tends to read high, meaning inaccurate. At least in my 308 anyway. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 489 Registered: 12-2001 |
Typically overrevving an engine for a brief period like that shouldnt hurt anything. The first thing to get damaged is valves in an overrev situation. Exhaust valves tend to be the first because of the cycle. They hang open during valve float when the spring cant return it to its seat fast enough or to follow the cam profile. The piston has the potential to touch it at this point. I would also doubt it is damaged. The worse case is a no load high rpm condition like a missed shift. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 622 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ken, I let a friend of mine drive my 308qv. He had a girl in the car with him and they were at a stop light. A modded mitsubishi pulled up next to him and I was behind them knowing full well what was about to happen. Luckily they took off slow but then hit it and I could clearly tell by the sound the he took it well into the redline in 2nd. I was a 100 yards or so back and good and pissed. I am not sure what he took it up to put I know it was up there and he didn't deny it. He did feel bad about it. Anyway the point is that was like 6 months ago and the car is running great so you should be fine... 9800 rpms! That is damn high. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
Drain your oil and check for metal fragments you can also cut your oil filter in half and check also | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 132 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ed: What do you mean that I am "probably Ok with no harm done"? What could possibly be wrong? | ||
| C. Smith (Italianauto)
Junior Member Username: Italianauto Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2001 |
I think you will be OK if it is running fine now....Get this....on a track day this summer this guy was running his 83 QV up to 10,000 rpm.....NO problems have shown up since then...an idiot thing to do, but it shows that a QV motor is very tough..... | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1991 Registered: 2-2001 |
If it still runs the same as it did then it is probably OK with no harm done. If it broke something it would show up immediately. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 131 Registered: 2-2002 |
Today I let my sister drive my 308 QV and she did a stupid thing. While driving in 3rd she went to shift into 4th but put it into 2nd instead. The tach went well into the red at 9800 RPM!!!! I sh1t a brick and took the car out of gear after about 3-5 seconds. The car appears to run well, but I am very concerned that there may be some internal damage that may not show up right away. Any input? Will a compression test or a leak down test tell me more? Ken |