| Author | Message | ||
| Tommy Anastasiou (Tommya)
New member Username: Tommya Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2002 |
What was the group rate on the boushings ?? | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2002 |
Bill thanks for the info..I am going to weld them when I get them...best to do as the factory... | ||
| Joe Craven (Rscapri2600)
New member Username: Rscapri2600 Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2002 |
Does the Mondial Cabriolet use the 30mm bushings in the rears and fronts too? | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 368 Registered: 5-2001 |
Paul, I think welding is the way to go on the 3-series cars. Loctite stud-n-bearing is a possiblility, but you'd have to work out the bond area and see if the sheer stress was acceptable. I guess the the thing I worry about is if loctite is used, there will be very little in the joint after you press in the bushings. The principle load the joint will have to withstand is axial, due to braking forces. Assuming a 3200 lb car, equal distribution of braking forces, and a 1-G stopping force, this works out to about 200 lbs per bushing. All the front facing bushings will be pressed to the A-arm surface so it is a matter of how much of the load will be shared by the aft bushings. I think the conservative thing to do is to spot weld them as the factory does. This is best done with a MIG welder and and a skilled user as the bead needs to be applied quickly to minimize damage to the elastomer. A welder, with an assistant pouring cooling water on the bushing afer the welding process, works well. | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Junior Member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 166 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hans, A couple of things... I think you'll find that the press is pretty tight, even on the steel arms. Due to the design/fit of the bushing assemblies, they'll "self-align" in the arms. The likelihood of a loose fit is slim...and if that were the case, I consider replacing the arms anyhow. The purpose of the weld is to prevent the bushing from twisting (a bit overkill, based on the interfernce I've measured installing these. Personally, I'd tack weld them off the car. Install the arms at normal ride height, then tighten everything down. RE: 348 arms..Sorry not familiar with the suspension. Likely if stamped, steel arms...the bushing are tack welded in place. Regards, David | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 315 Registered: 1-2002 |
Does anyone know how these work on the 348? I am interested in replacing mine as some are starting to crack a little but have been putting it off for fear that it would be a very tedious time consuming job. If there is welding involved then it will be a big pain. If only pressing them in and out is required it is doable. Let me know if you guys have any info on this. Thanks! John | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 177 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have read on the ferrari308 tech site that locktite can be used instead of rewelding..I haven't decided which method I will use welding/locktite when I get the new bushings...Any thoughts on the use of locktite? | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 237 Registered: 4-2002 |
Just wondering: Should the bushings be spot welded while on the car? It would seem that they could otherwise be slightly crooked, causing them to be difficult to install and/or bind in operation. Else, maybe some sort of jig to perfectly align them while welding? | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 162 Registered: 6-2002 |
David - thanks for your help. Jim S. | ||
| David Feinberg (Fastradio2)
Junior Member Username: Fastradio2 Post Number: 165 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jim, The Boxer has individual forged arms...hence the bushings press in and out, without the use, or need for spot welds. (Spot welds were typically used on F-cars that had stamped steel control arms..). Other than that the interference fit is pretty tight, and supporting the arms while pressing in the new bushings can be a mild PIA, it's a pretty easy job... Regards, David | ||
| Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Junior Member Username: Sparta49 Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2001 |
Kelly it broke down to about 750.00 for all the parts before upper and lower ball joints which were another 800.00 and 975.00 labor to replace front and rear arm bushings, upper and lowere ball joints, front and rear stabalizer bar bushings and the front end alignment. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 161 Registered: 6-2002 |
Are the spot welds on these bushings limited to 3x8 models, or do most vintage Ferraris suffer this lot? I am considering the same exercise on my Boxer, but would hesitate if they are welded and require a press to remove and insert. Thanks for your help. Jim S. | ||
| Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member Username: Tifosi1 Post Number: 420 Registered: 2-2002 |
Frank just had his car done from front to back. The one thing that I did not know is that these things are welded on. The weld has to be cut then pressed out then the new one pressed back on and then tack welded and cooled quick enough as to not melt the urethane. Then you should always get an anlignment. I think they charged frank over $1,000. do to the whole thing. It took one Tech 3 days straight to make it happen. My 2cents Kelly | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 402 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dr Tommy, HenryK, Paul 1)308 ES BUSHINGS MAY BE AVAIL (BRIEFLY) AT THE GROUP BUY PRICE. 2)If your car uses 34mm BUSHINGS THEY'RE GOING TO BE AVAILABLE AT A GOOD PRICE SHORTLY). 3) Mike, your 308 ES Bushings should be 'in the mail' shortly. For details, see today's post in the ES BUSHINGS RECALL THREAD: http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/127528.html?1033953663 | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 132 Registered: 7-2002 |
thanks mike, its not that I was doubting Dan...just wondering if anyone had received the new ones yet. thanks! Paul | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2002 |
Paul: Yes, the eight 13-3102's had to go back and be swapped out for eight more 13-3101's. It turns out the 308's and 328's use the 3101's both front and rear. I'm still waiting for the replacements to arrive. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 131 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mike, did you have to send your front bushings back..Dan Ramos told me he had a problem with the fronts and that all the orders had come back to him...still waiting for my set. just curious. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks Mike | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 65 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jeff: You can get new bushings for your stock reaction rod for $65 each from Nick's Forza Ferrari http://www.nicksforzaferrari.com/forzaferrariwebsite1002.htm If you're an FCA member, you can get an additional discount. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 500 Registered: 12-2001 |
Neil, I would have the alignment checked for sure. If the alignment is correct with the old bushings, it will be wrong with the new ones. | ||
| Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
Junior Member Username: Jbk Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2001 |
Anyone trying to replace the bushings yourself, please be aware that they are spot welded in place and you will have to grind out the welds to remove them. Removal will require a press or other means since they are a tight press fit. The new ones have to be pressed in, and then should be spot welded. Not hard, but you have to be prepared. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2002 |
Does anyone know what the bushings (sizes) are for the support strut on the back of the engine ? I was quoted 75.00 each from various parts cos each for the 2 rubber ones | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
New member Username: Neilg Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2001 |
For replacing the bushings, the car would require a re-alignment? Also, is this a job a novice/enthusiast could tackle with no special equipment? Thanks in advance. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2002 |
Pete: Yes, I've been told that the 13-3101's (30mm) fit 308's and 328's, all years. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 551 Registered: 10-2001 |
Urethane bushings will out live the car! Tommy, I went with the urethane ones. The selling point is more stiffness when cornering and you'll never have to replace them again (well almost never). Yes the ride is firmer but better performance. I wouldn't waste my money on the stock rubber ones. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 303 Registered: 5-2001 |
What are the type of bushings that add performance but wreck the car's ride? I don't want those. The stock type are ok with me. What should I get and what should I avoid? | ||
| pete gorrell (Rufus)
New member Username: Rufus Post Number: 16 Registered: 2-2002 |
I joined just too late to make the group buy. Is it the 30mm size that fits 308s? (In my case, 82GTSi.) | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2002 |
Here's what the new bushings from Energy Suspension look like. Our "group buy" was for graphite-impregnated urethane (which is the "G" suffix in the part number).  There's a lot of info about the polyurethane bushings and how they help at the ES website, such as at http://www.energysuspension.com/atwork.html | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2002 |
The polyurethane bushings can be gotten directly from Energy Suspension, Inc. at http://www.energysuspension.com/fer.html but there's a place that discounts the ES bushing to less then $20/bushing at http://www.suspension.com/ferrari.htm and their price is almost as good as a large group buy that some of us did via FerrariList.com Mike | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 556 Registered: 5-2002 |
I got them from Ferrari before .They were more like $35 each. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 282 Registered: 8-2001 |
Mike: Where does one get the bushings? I am considering doing this on my TR. What are the cost of Ferrari bushings? Thanks. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yes, it's time to change them. Cost is $15-$30 each for urethane bushings if that's how you choose to go (graphite-impregnated urethane is better) plus 4 to 6 hours of labor to install all 16 (8 front, 8 rear). | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 301 Registered: 5-2001 |
Here is a shot of one of my bushings at the rear of my 1984 308. Should I go the expense of redoing them all? If so how many are there and what is the typical cost of such a project? Thanks everyone.  |