| Author |
Message |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2676
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 7:29 pm: | |
Paul the QVs did make the switch to three ring like you said. I didn't know the two valves ran four rings, interesting.
8liters would work out to like 8.5 quarts, so close enough. Sorry, I wasn't thinking when I said that about the liter quart thing which caused this confusion, it's been a long time since I did anything Ferrari related with quarts. Your 9.5 quarts sounds reasonable. My manual says 8 quarts if I remember correctly, I think it's a little low though as they all take 8 liters. There are so many differences in the cars it is hard to say any definitive thing about them, like this here. The cars are very individual and the best is to do what works for you. That's why I always fill up 6 first and then go from there cause you don't want some car to be different than the others and it to overfill with going to 8 right away, then have to drain some, all the gyrations. At home I usually put in 7 and check, then more, just a habit I guess. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 512
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 5:11 pm: | |
Paul, I replaced the pistons with 10.8:1 custom pistons that automatically came as a 3 ring set-up. I didnt want the 4 ring style anyway, seems like old technology, sort of compressor like, alot of drag and couldnt see the reason for it. I was interested in making more power with cams being a future plan so the pistons were a must. The new pistons were 100grams lighter each than the originals and much shorter in the skirts. Im surprised though at the lack of oil consumption. |
Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member
Username: Pcelenta
Post Number: 147
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 3:58 pm: | |
mr.newman, did you change the pistons on your rebuild to accomodate those rings? |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 201
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 1:58 pm: | |
Still puzzled by all of this. Now mind you, I'm talking about an old '75 GT4, but 9 1/2 quarts brings it just to the 'full' on the dipstick, as measured just after engine shutdown, as the manual suggests. (9 1/2 quarts is what my manual says.) And, yes, I know there is a little discrepancy between different manuals as to when/how to check the oil level. Also, why add a quart at a time after the first 6? I just dump it all in. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2675
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 12:11 pm: | |
Good point, sorry, we get everything in liters (Agip 2000) so I wasn't thinking. I haven't changed the oil in my car in a very long time, which I do in quarts because I use valvoline at home. 8 liters is what they always take, carbed, injected, QV. I usually put in 6, start it up, then 7, start it up, then you always need that last one to make 8. |
Peter Connolly (Mondial_32_aus)
Junior Member
Username: Mondial_32_aus
Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 6:09 am: | |
I seem to have a variable oil loss on my 87 Mondial 3.2 with 60,000 klm and excellent service history. My car is driven semi hard and mainly in town.
I measured just under 1/2 litre (approx 1/2 quart)over exactly 1000klm over 4 months and recently added 1 litre for the 1500 klm since then over the last 5 months. My oil light comes on as soon as it gets a sniff of a potential low oil situation and is always right on the money!
I have never seen a drop of oil leaking anywhere in my engine bay or whereever I park it and it don't blow no smoke. I got a little paranoid about oil loss last year and had Ferrari Sydney check the gearbox & cooling system for signs of engine oil and do the usual compression & leakdown tests......just in case!
I now conclude that it is normal to use up to a litre of oil per 1000 klm when the car is driven semi hard. Also, all engines are different and will consume oil at different rates, nothing to worry about.
PC |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 280
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 6:02 am: | |
A liter is 1.057 quarts. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 477
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2002 - 5:39 am: | |
My 78' takes 7 quarts to be full and the QV takes 8 or 9 quarts. I am not sure why there is a difference. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 194
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 7:24 pm: | |
Bret: I think you have it backwards. Liters are bigger than quarts, so 8 liters is over 9 quarts. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2673
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 7:08 pm: | |
Filling the 308s usually takes 8 liters when changing the oil. So like 7 and then a little more quarts. Manual says between 6 and 8 quarts is the difference between add and full on the dipstick. I put in 7 quarts, start it up and let it idle a second, then shut it off and check real quick. Then I put more in and repeat.
Paul good point about the seals. I too swapped for Viton ones during this rebuild/mod work. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 188
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 4:53 pm: | |
Oops. I think the owner's manual specifies 9 1/2, if I remember correctly. (It's at home.) You might be underfilling it. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 127
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 12:17 pm: | |
7.75 to 8 qts fills it up |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 471
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:46 am: | |
When my car gets low on oil, 78' 308, the pressure will drop some. How many quarts are your putting in your 78'? |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 125
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 8:42 am: | |
It does rise and fall from idle to underway.
With oil full
idle is approx 46 to 84 underway
low oil
idle is approx 20 to approx 75 uderway.
|
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1401
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 8:39 am: | |
I would investigate further - 1 quart should not effect pressure that much. It possible you gauge is off. I think it is normal when the engine is hot that the idle pressure is just under 40 or so. You should see the pressure rise as the rpms rise. that said I don't think it should go over 85-95 that often or for very long times |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 124
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 8:28 am: | |
Magoo,
The gauge usually reads just left of the 85 reading. At Idle, it is at the hash mark between 0 and 85. The other day the pressure was just to the right of the hash mark and at idle it was almost to 0. I added 1 qt and that raised the pressure back up to where is normally is. It seems to burn 1 to 1 1/2 qts every 1500 miles. I don't have oil in the carbs, on the floor, or out the back. I do get a puff of white on start up but it goes away quickly. I am getting the cats rebuilt next week due to a smog check coming. I check the oil right after I shut off the engine.
I don't loose the reading, it just drops really low. I don't know what number the hash mark is suppost to be between the 0 and 85 but the OM said something about the pressure being 79 to 95. I am guessing the hash mark is 42
Hope this helps.
Matt |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3146
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:37 pm: | |
Matt, That sounds odd. You noticed the guage dropping until you added oil. How low was it and how many qts did you add? It would have to be way low to create a loss of the pressure reading. What proceedure do you use to check your oil? You should check it within 2 mins. after stopping the engine operating at normal engine temps. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 470
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 11:51 am: | |
I use around 1 quart for every 3000 miles. No to bad for a 78' 308. My QV hasn't used any noticeable amount between oil changes. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 501
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:45 am: | |
My 79 uses no measurable oil according to the dipstick since I rebuilt it. I suspect the upgraded guide seals I used is the cure. The factory seals are teflon and suck to put it mildly. I used viton rubber ones instead. Im also running 3 ring pistons unlike the original 4 ring setup. I believe ferrari went to the 3 ring piston on the QV for friction reduction with the nickle-ceramic liners and probably better guide seals. Emissions would also come into play with oil consumption and they would have to correct it if they were to continue making the V8. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 116
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:44 am: | |
It is not burning or leaking. What prompted me to look at the level is the oil pressure was steady and then started to drop over time. Light never came on but enough for me to notice. Once the level came up the pressure was fine. |
mike 308 (Concorde)
New member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 26
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 10:06 am: | |
Yep, fixed that with the QV's. My '84 uses NO oil between 3000-mile oil changes. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1375
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 7:54 am: | |
if there is not a lotta smoke and no oil on your garage floor check the valve cover seals. sometimes, especially on the forward bank, you seep some oil but it never hits the floor because it burns right off on the exhust manifold |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3145
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:59 pm: | |
Make sure when you change the oil and filter you do not put too much oil in. You could be causing it to blow out due to crankcase pressure. If you think you may have been putting in too much oil check your airbox to see if oil is present. Just a thought. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3144
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:52 pm: | |
David is correct , The owners manual tells you your car will use a certain amount of oil. As long as it is not smoking, has no bad leaks and you are using 1 qt in a 1000 miles consider it normal. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 2215
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:41 pm: | |
Check your OM, I think that's what they expect, although I've never burned near that much. I would do compression tests just to make you sleep better. Even if you are loosing oil, I'm of the school a quart of oil every 1,000 miles is cheaper than a $12,500 rebuild. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 227
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:41 pm: | |
Matt, ALL 2 valve 308's burn oil, some more than others. Most is related to weak valve guide seals, but some 82-82 GTSI/GTBi's also had problems related to bad piston rings, which also caused high oil consumption. I have heard though, that only North American models were affected, and in limited numbers at that. Many had engines or short blocks replaced by FNA. You'll note that even the manual states that one to two quarts per 600 miles can be considered normal! Anyway, my 78 308 GTS consumed a quart in anywhere from 1,000 to 2,000 miles depending on how hard I drove the car (34k miles on it), so consider yours normal.
I have put 1,000 miles on my new to me, 87 328 GTS (30k miles) and it has consumed exactly no oil. I think Ferrari fixed the valve guide problems starting with the 308 QV's on... |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 113
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 10:21 pm: | |
Does anybody think 1 qt of oil burned for every 1000 miles driven sound high.
It's a daily driver with normal, slowpaced city driving with some highway.
it's a 78 308 carb if that helps |