| Author |
Message |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 3:29 am: | |
No problem Karl.
From what I read and understand below, if your car is shifting alright and you install the Ti gate, there shouldn't be a problem. If these things are made well they will have perfect dimensions matching the original gate and should shift in the same manner.
Bret says Ti is cool and it is (we cyclists know the coolness factor of Ti and know its light weight advantage).
But whether that extra, angled cut on the shift gate teeth has a performance advantage of quicker shifts is (and was here) debatable.
One thing people agreed here elsewhere in this site was the nice feel of the Ti shift knob. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 9:48 pm: | |
STU, Bret has another good opinion RE: The alignment of the trans. It's your call, just some, friendly opinions of those who know. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 9:41 pm: | |
Stu, we really were'nt trying to tell you what to do. Our theories may be wrong. But these guys who answered you know pretty much what they are talking about. It did not seem like a good idea since the trans. seems like it gives resistance under the normal gear run through the gate. If you still like the idea,go with it. I just don't intend to put one on my car after hearing two pretty good sources of info. Best regards |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 9:37 pm: | |
The Ti knob and pedals are cool cause they're trick. If the shiftgate was identical to the OEM one then I would think it would be alright, but like people have said, it serves an important function to the transmission. For the record, I believe the Ferrari trans is a piece of sh$t. It's a cool design, but not that functional. It has to be caressed everytime, not exactly a quality of a race car. It makes it fun cause you have to pay attention and there is somewhat of an artistry shifting a Ferrari, but still they're weak. Gosh forbid you tried and powershifted, you'd leave half the thing in the road. It's an amazing design with being one piece connected to the diff and bolted to the engine, but it's just not made to be really messed with like other high performance trans are. In some sort of sick Ferrari relationship, I still love it though. Don't even talk about the aligning the trans, it took me a week to get mine right.
Do the new cars shift like the 308? |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 9:25 pm: | |
Okay....so are the majority of you saying that I should cancel my order for the Ti shiftgate 'cause it's going to cause more harm that good? I also bought the Ti knob and pedals.... |
Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 5:35 pm: | |
The best way to align the shifter is to remove the transmission oil pan so that you can see the shifter forks actually engage the proper gear and align the shifter shaft with the console gate. If you should remove the console shifter gate you would not be able to shift the trans. without having to hunt the gears. It is not like any other transmission. It has to be perfectly aligned for a proper shift. Any unusual engine movement during operation can misalign the shifter. Any time the engine is removed you will probably have to aligh the shifter. Actually almost every Ferrari I have ever driven needed the shifter aligned. The gate and shift forks have to be perfectly in sync or it ain't gonna work right. |
David Harris (Dakharris)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 4:23 pm: | |
My shifting forks got out of alignment on my Mondial. I couldn't get the car out of 2nd until I removed the gate. That was a day I would like to forget. Then it was two weeks and $650 at the dealer to make it right again. Having never driven any other Ferrari, I had no idea how it should feel. Now I can say that if it feels too stiff, there is probably something wrong. I am told my car now shifts like butter. I think the butter must be very cold. The shifting is not a great pleasure, but the soundtrack makes it worthwhile! |
KARL DASTOLI (Luch)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 3:59 pm: | |
My humble apologizes. Thought you were talking about the gate in the console. |
Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 3:57 pm: | |
OK, here's the deal. Having been inside hundreds of manual transmissions, the Ferrari unit is a well made but not the best design for a transmission. The shift gate at the shifter is a functional part of the trans. that should have been put inside rather than outside. There is only one way that the gate can operate correctly and that is with perfect alignment with the shift forks inside the transmission. Period. Therefore, since the gate has to be made perfectly and aligned perfectly, the only advantage of a titanium gate would be wear resistance, and without a titanium gear stick to go along with it, I see little advantage. Your stock shifter should last the life of the car. I do not know how many different cars you listeners have driven, but I have driven thousands over the years and the Ferrari ranks up there with the worst shifting. Also included in this list would be Porsche, and Alfa Romeo. The best shifting would have to be the Nissan 300z and Honda along with Mercedes and the Mazda Miata. They are all a pleasure to shift and last forever. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 12:46 pm: | |
Exactly Magoo. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 11:39 am: | |
Luch, I don't think Peter was talking about the shift gate, he was talking about the shift forks internaly in the trans. This was my concern since normally the trans shifts firmly anyway. |
Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 10:10 am: | |
Just try removing the original shiftgates and shifting wo it. It behaves just like any other manual car wo one! No corners! |
KARL DASTOLI (Luch)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 8:54 am: | |
Correction
The shift gates are not cut square, they are cut at the same angle that the shift lever makes depending on which gear you are in. That is in neutral the lever is straight up. In 1st and reverse it's 10 degrees left and in 4th and 5th it's 10 deg right. The back and forth angles are 25 deg. Therefore the shift lever is always running square to a surface...no corners to wear out. As I said earlier I made one out of Ti and have the 3D data base on my computer. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 3:11 am: | |
The fingers and forks on the shift rods are cut square and are meant to travel up and down and back and forth (as per the layout of the slots in the original gate). When you start cutting across from one vertical cut-out to the next one in the neutral slot (eg: 1st to 2nd, like these Ti gates permit), you'll be knocking and wearing off those squared edges on the shift forks/fingers. This is what I feel would happen with long-time use of these Ti gates. |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 10:39 pm: | |
Herb, What is your opinion, is speed shifting putting the trans synchros.etc. under stress by forcing rapid shifts? |
Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 10:14 pm: | |
Question: If the aftermarket shift gate speeds up shifting, is there a chance that damage could be done to the trans. internally. We all know that the trans. shifts tend to be a little stiff under normal conditions anyway. Curious. |
Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 6:43 am: | |
Had my for > 2 years now. It has been so long that I am used to it now. I must however say that the difference was certainly quite noticeble when I first fitted it. Shifting is faster especially if you are one of those who make fast shifts! |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 7:29 pm: | |
I just ordered mine - but it's on back order. I also ordered the Ti shift knob and the pedals. The claim is that between the gate and the knob, shifting is much faster and smoother. We'll see.... |
KARL DASTOLI (Luch)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 5:42 pm: | |
Mark,
Funny you should mention that because I own a Hi-Tech machine shop and made one for my 86'328GTS. Somewhat involved and looks very nice but doesn't really change much in the shifting department. Just wanted to do something to personalize mine. I'll bet they're expensive too! |
Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 5:00 pm: | |
Anyone tried the Titanium (titaniumcavallino) aftermarket sfift gates? Do they improve shifting or are they just expensive hype? ( 1982 GTSi )
Thanks! |