| Author | Message | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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That is a good plan B. I guess you will piss off the Blonds now. | ||
| joe saladana (Workjoe)
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Simply just take the door panels off. take your die grinder,n nibbler.yank whole panel.cut out cables and motor .attach pully from hardware store to string and run under seats when girl is in car just push button and pull string at same time if shes blonde just put a porsche sticker on the dash... or even more effectivly on the vanity mirror.... | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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Thanks Peter. I'll try ASAP. Keep U posted. Thanks again. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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I have not taken one of these apart, so please bare with me on this. You may have to press the shaft out of the pulley/gear. Not with some multi-ton press, but a bench vise will suffice. Back the gear or pulley (hard to tell from the photo, but whichever part will allow the shaft to pass through) with a deep socket or piece of pipe. Gently close the vise and press out the shaft, continue through using a smaller socket/pipe to clear the pulley/gear. I have used this method many, many times on parts for my Ferrari and other "toys". Be sure to check beforehand for any snap-rings, roll-pins, woodruff keys or other locking devices that may prevent the shaft from being pressed out. | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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opps. Let's get it right this time.    | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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Images of the cable spool : /image{cable spool front view} /image{cable spool side view} /image{cable spool rear view} Thanks | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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I had to replace a cable that snapped and have removed the motor and cable spool. I have also removed the 3 screws holding down the cable spool. However, I cannot find any way to separate the cable spool from the large gear and thus cannot remove the broken cable! Looks like there is a metal core thru the plastic spool and gear, and is spring loaded inside. Pls help, how in the world do I get the thing apart? Will try to follow with photos. Thanks. | ||
| William Masterson (Veloce)
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Removal images      | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Click on "Formating" to the left, there you will see the instructions to upload pictures. | ||
| William Masterson (Veloce)
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OK- My pics did not show up. They are jpegs and I copyied and tried to paste them to this add a message section but they do not show up. Ifrgt -How did you get your jpeg to show up? Thanks | ||
| William Masterson (Veloce)
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I have placed the photos on this page as requested. They were taken with a Poloroid camera and scanned and did not come out well. I must break down and get a digital camera. I think you can make out the sequence of events however. 1 is the hole after the speaker is removed. 2 is the motor, spool, and backing plate dropped straight down after. 3 is turning the unit sideways with the backing plate to the left and the spool to the right.4. is lifting the unit up and tilting it out. 5 is getting the bottom part out and bringing it down to allow clearance of the motor.6 is the unit out with the electrical cables still in place. If you can do this successfully you will have the knowledge that you can deliver a baby in any emergency situation. That was the easy part. After you remove the cover and clean out all the gunk, (without melting the plastic wheel) you can re-lube with white lubricant as others have recommended and re assemble. Now the fun part � stringing the cable. I am not embarrassed to say that it took me an entire Saturday to do this project. The cable took most of the time. I had to make about 10 attempts before I got in back right. Sometimes I strung the cable wrong and sometimes I got the length wrong from either putting too many or not enough windings on the spool before screwing it together. Because it takes so much time to get the unit in and string the cable only to find out that it was too short or too long � I started measuring the loop of cable on the garage floor before I installed it � to get some data points. I sat the unit on the floor and stretched out the loop of cable alongside a tape measure. I found that 53� was too long � this represented about two turns each way with the wire. 50.5 � was to short. I ended up with 52� which was about one and ½ turns each way on the spool. It looks like 51.5� to 52.5� may be the range that will fit. It is important to remember that the end of the cable that goes into the lower part of the spool actually straddles the diagonal wire and the vertical wire. The vertical wire must be closest to the outside of the door. If it is not the fastener that secures the window at that end will snag on the return line and the window will only go half way up so the return line must be to the inside of that wire. On the other hand the return line must be to the inside of the diagonal wire. If not the diagonal wire and return wire will chafe against each other. Once installed I made some dry runs without the window attached. It made some God awful sounds a little like glass breaking which I at first thought might have happened. It turns out that although I carefully wound the wire on the spool into the nice little grooves that are there for that very purpose, that as soon as I let the tension go they sprung all over each other. The noise I guess was the wire properly sorting itself out on the spool. After a half dozen trips in each direction they have quieted down. After all the effort you are probably wondering how it turned out. Does the window now zip up and down? It zips down but still struggles to get up. Like a weight lifter on his/her absolute last repetition, it huffs and puffs and shutters and shakes and in the end barely (just) raises the window to the top under its own steam. Clearly this is an improvement from me having to place my palm against the window to give it an assist but it is hardly the improvement that I was looking for. I do not believe that will do the passenger door but rather I will investigate the existence of some voltage increasing device that Norwood has available that has been discussed before. Hope the pics and diagrams help. PS Incase you are wondering about the bead of silicone that can been seen in the picture going around the speaker cut out � it is there to increase the base response of the speaker by helping to make sure that air from the back of the speaker does not come around to the front of the speaker and cancel out the base. Most manufacturers sink there speakers in from the door panel so that this can not happen or make their door panels fit so snub that it is not a problem but it is a problem with the way these speakers are mounted. Bill | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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WOW. I had the whole thing apart except the windows, and couldn't get the motor out the hole for the speaker no matter how I turned it. Like Smart, it always seemed to miss by THAT much. Pics would be great! | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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HELP! pics please if you can, I like to keep my 308 ont he road and when I do repairs on the weekend I like to get i all done at once (who doesn't) and being prepared ahead of time is a real time saver --thanks to Ferrari chat! | ||
| William Masterson (Veloce)
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I am in the process of cleaning the window motor cable winding winding assembly of the caked on "grease" that is now as sticky as fly paper. I have an 81 308 GTSi and it has the factory size stereo speaker hole of 5 1/4". I am here to tell you that you can get the motor out this hole and without removing the window. I had to play with it a bit but the trick is to 1. remove the speaker. 2.unbolt and lower the motor a bit holding it through the speaker hole. 3.turn the motor, winding mechanism, and backing plate 90 degrees so that the whole mechanicism is now perpendicular to the hole. 4. tilt the motor part back and bring the narrow part of the backing plate out the hole, the rest of the mechanism will follow. 5. I am in the process of trying to get the cable back on right which is the nightmare that people have discribed. I still have the door panels off so if anyone wants a picture of the unit comeing out the speaker hole I can take one and post it. Bill | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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charles c. -- please explain "308gtsi-v12"!? | ||
| charles claussen (Atlantaman)
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I just rebuilt my window motors and wanted to share some info--- 1) the motor comes out easily WITHOUT removing either window. There should be a rectangular hole below and rear of the motor. If you pass it outside of the widnow channel and down it comes out easily. 2) the lubricant in the spool and worm gear had hardened into a a very hard paste!! It takes a little time and a lot of wire brushing but you can get it all off and apply some lithium grease to make it a happy motor. 3) be very careful when removing spool to record how many times the cable is wound around the spool. 4) take a sharpie-marker before you start removing things and locate (on the wire) the locations of the window mounts and pully positions--will make it a lot easier when putting things back in place. this takes about 3-4 hrs per side | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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Uhhh, John and James didn't permit reprint, but... hey we're all one big brotherhood, right? (Sorry Dina, you'll just have to be one of the guys). Also, the diagram posted by ifrgt/herbert is very helpful, and most of picture was in the article. The print was really tiny, don't know how well it would fax... Any lawyers out there? Is this a big Booboo/no-no? | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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by John Rotto and James Hampton FCA Newsletter [These guys didn't replace the motors, they cleaned the old lube out, and replaced them. This is wordy, but it seems there are a lot who are interested. In interest of speed, proper grammar has been omitted. I did paraphrase, and omit some verbosity.] ...No special tools are required, but ... dexterity and ... ability will serve you well. 1) Remove the door panel. Locate and remove the 4 attachments under the door arm rest (2 bolts, 2 nuts). Remove speaker grill, door lock button, and the 3 screws along the edge of the door panel (2 rear, 1 under).Remove large screw behind speaker cover, lift and pivot door panel. Remove speaker and watershield, noting orientation... 2) Remove window and wing glass ...take polaroids of inside of door... Note ... small nuts, bolts, washers and spacers which pinch cable to window. Disconnect window from cable and remove bolting assemblies with a 10mm narrow-head wrench -- eg. part of an ignition tune-up set. Allow window to slide to bottom of stops. Remove and loosen 2 bolts holding rear window track (one inside door, other at top of rear door jamb), and carefully remove glass with help! Note weatherstrip interface with rubber holding the wingglass in at door top. Remove 2 allen bolts at top of front door jamb (tough) and 2 bolts inside door holding the track/wingglass. With help, pull out the wingglass. Treat door rust, check tracks, and re-lube them. 3) Motor and drive. Sketch path of cable. With small mirror, observe how cable is wound over drive spool. Loosen adjustable pulley in middle of door and release cable from pulley system. Remove the 3 nuts holding motor unit. Maneuver unit rearward...out the door. Remove cable drive spool cover (3 screws)... if lubricant packed and dry, problem located... Clean everything... with gentle solvent... Lift the spool SLIGHTLY to clean underneath... Toothbrush, icepick/small screwdriver helpful... Be gentle. 4)Reassemble Re-lube [all moving parts] then reassemble. Wind cable properly over grooves in spool and, with helper to keep appropriate tension on cable to prevent misalignment, reposition motor unit... cable must be restrung over the pulleys and tension provisionally adjusted. Re-examine cable to ensure proper course over spool, and test for proper operation. Spool should be examined to note full up, and full down positions of cable on the spool. Turning cable past these positions will result in too much tension and redoing above steps. With cable at full down position, reinstall wingglass. Slip window back into door and realign the rear track by moving the window up and down manually to check for smooth movement. Tighten the rear track. Allow the window to sit at the bottom stops and mark locations where cable should be pinched. Manually move window to position where holes in window are accessable so attachments can be made. Move the cable with the motor so that the marked locations coincide with the holes, and reattach window to cable. Test for proper operation, adjust tension pulley as required. Reinstall rest of door panel. | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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when the windows need a helping hand, another cause I have encountered is that the nuts and bolts securing either the cables or the window rails are loose and needs a little realignment and tightening. quick to fix. | ||
| Adelina Vallese (Dina)
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Steve, I ask questions because every one has different ideas and ways of doing things. The owners/parts/workshop manuals are great but, especially the electrical diagrams, are hard to follow. Apart from that, don't forget it's a woman's perogative to ask questions, regardless of whether she knows the answer or not !! Ha ! | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Great Pic Herb. It shows the window motor mech. as well as the door lock mech. Answers both topics. | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
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See if this will help  | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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Dina -- since you already have the documentation why the question about the window power? | ||
| Adelina Vallese (Dina)
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Thanks for your message Steve. I do have the owners manual and have photo copied and enlarged the wiring diagram to A3 size. I teach some nights at a university and they have all the best copying / computer gear. Also downloaded/printed a GTB parts catalogue and QV workshop manual from a Ferrari site at Uni(shh!).The QV manual only had engine/ mechanical chapters included. Have been looking on ebay etc for a comlete original manual. Dom has also been contacting friends in the business. As far a my charms go,Dom has known me since I was born and treats me like his daughter. He and my late father go back a long way racing and building sports/racing cars. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
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Dina -- Have you considered getting some of the technical documentation for your car so it can be available for Dom's (and your) reference? The correct year/version Owner's Manual will have an excellent and complete wiring diagram (a.k.a., schematic), and I know that I wouldn't mind having the corresponding SPC handy if/when I was doing some serious door/window disassembly/assembly (not that SPCs don't have errors too -- but some information is always better than none). Shouldn't be more than $200~$250 US total for both (and they are a nice addition to any car's portfolio IMHO) -- just a thought, as I fear Dom will not escape your charms anytime soon... | ||
| Adelina Vallese (Dina)
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Gentlemen, thanks for the quick response. In the next couple of weeks Dom wants to pull the car in to play with the webers some more. That will be a good oportunity to pull both door trims off and clean up/check the window workings. Do the motors run on a relay thus getting full power all the time ? Thanks again, Dina. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Dina, My car set for 18yrs. I did the same thing, lubed the cable with white grease and mine work fine. If your channels are offering resistance you can use powdered graphite and spray in them. I have'nt used it in a while but some store like NAPA should have it. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
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Both my windows were getting a little sketchy awhile ago, so I took off the door panels and lubed all the cables and guides and just about everything in there and now they're pretty good, the drivers is quite good, the passengers is alright. Most of the problem is the window motor's lack of balls, but if the whole thing is well lubed it seems to work good enough. My drivers goes right up like a normal car, the passengers goes up and then slows down at the top and kind of crawls the last 1/4 of an inch. Just pop off the door panels and lube everything up. When I did it I lubed them up at night, left everything off, then the next morning I came back and relubed. I used white grease made by 3M. It's pretty easy to do. | ||
| Adelina Vallese (Dina)
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My drivers window works fine,(well about as fine as a ferrari window works), but the passenger window gets half way up and then starts faultering and needs a hand to get it going. Same on the way down, needs assistance till about half way and then sails down. The motor seems to be OK. Any suggestions, before I pull my door apart? After reading the posts, it looks like another "heater hose" type job !! I mean, what else does a girl with a Ferrari do on a weekend ! Dina. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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SAM, Looks like you're right, It ain't a simple job. After reading what LOW said, don't cut a hole, maybe blasting is better. Sounds hair pulling. | ||
| Low Kai Chin (Speeddemon)
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Check the alignment of the window as it rises or lowers. When the same thing happened to me, I found that one of the nuts holding the wires to the glass has slipped. Simple matter of reconnecting/screwing it to fix. At least get that done and leave the replacement of the motor to when you have more time. I can tell you it takes a long time for a first timer, especially the windings of the cable on the existing motor. Try to also replace the cable if you are doing so. And take the advise of making good drawings or better still photos. Getting the window properly aligned almost drove me nuts. | ||
| Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
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If its not too much trouble, I�d also like a copy of that article. Thanks. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Sam, I know you probably don't want to hear this, but they got it in there without cutting that hole so there is a way to get it out. I probably should'nt comment since I have'nt removed one. Be patient and take your time. Not only that, someone else will probably come up with the answer. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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Thanks Mark, 1) If anyone can copy that FCA article 4-me I can provide a fax # and thanks 2) would it make sense to cut a access hole in the sheet metal ( ok purists..I would cover it back up and it is covered by the door panel and seem like it would beat window removal) would it weaken the door structure? 3) If I remove the window, will I be spending the rest of my life trying to realign everything again... should I repl ace the window cables or pulleys at this time My window is slow but now stops about an inch shy of the top. | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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You need to take everything out, the window, and the little triangle shaped window (has a name, but 'senior moment'). Memorize the path of the cables, better, take a polaroid AND draw it. To get the window out, you'll need a flat 10(?) mm wrench -- one of those skinny die-cut ones, not a forged one. The motor is located to the front of the door, but you need to pass it out the back of the door, thus the window removal. If you are an FCA member, this procedure was written up about a year ago in the newsletter. Yes I tried this, easy except the window removal, no wrench no removal, failed project. There are some holes in the sheetmetal where the speakers go, but they are just too small to pass the motor out. hope someone else replies, too. That way, if I forgot something, it might get caught. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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I bought one of Nick's new replacement window motors for the 308 QV. Any tips, Procedure, ideas on how to r/r this item? Nick said it can be quite tricky for the first timer. Also tips on what to clean/lube/replace once I am in there already would be helpful. |