| Author | Message | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 676 Registered: 5-2002 |
Was suppose to be "My New". What, you cant read Bruno. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 342 Registered: 4-2002 |
Oops. Ethanol. Oregon has used it instead of MTBE (I believe), and most other places are switching to it because of health scares with MTBE. My 27 lb liver is proof that there is no health issues with ethanol. | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 116 Registered: 1-2002 |
 | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2117 Registered: 12-2000 |
No, that would be meow. This is more like a cow with an accent.  | ||
| JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member Username: Rivee Post Number: 114 Registered: 1-2002 |
Mew? Is this a feline exhaust system? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2114 Registered: 12-2000 |
Are you sure they're using methanol? That's pretty potent stuff. I've got some at home, I can pour it on an old diaphram and see what it does... | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 338 Registered: 4-2002 |
I know MTBE is bad news for older fuel systems, rubber in particular. But some states are using methanol, which will attack some substances. Anyone know for sure if the replacement rubber diaphragms are OK with methanol? | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2108 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hans, the diaphrams I have were brown rubber. The originals were brown as well. I can suggest the teflon ones only if you know that the gas stations in your state have that additive called (and I can't remember exactly the letters used) METB?? MTBE?? There was a report on it on "60 Minutes" last year. This destroys certain rubbers used in automotive fuel systems. Otherwise, normal rubber diaphrams can be used (Weber P/N: 47407.050). I could say alot about Chevron's Techron, but won't publicly as they are a good customer where I work...  | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 385 Registered: 4-2001 |
Hans, the accel pump diaphragms appear to be black rubber... The kit is manufactured by Ricambi Carburatori Auto, Torino Italy. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3259 Registered: 2-2001 |
Peter is correct in that fuel additives can break down accell. pump diaphrams. There was a post not too long ago about leaving too much Techron, although it is a great product, in the fuel for long periods of storage can affect the pumps. I agree with that because it happened to me. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2002 |
David: Which accel pump diaphragms do you have? Rubber or Teflon? | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 383 Registered: 4-2001 |
I bought my rebuild kits off ebay from ein maseratti fan for about what Weber wanted for just one carb kit, think it was around $59.00 US funds... I plan on rebuilding them in November as a birthday gift to myself. I'll let everyone know how well they work when I'm finished... For what it's worth, one source for jets is usually your local VW aftermarket parts house, most that don't have them in stock can usually get them overnight from redline weber. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 334 Registered: 4-2002 |
BTW, Peter, do you know if the diaphragms in either the Ford or the rebuild kit are the white Teflon ones? I've heard these are a more 'permanent' solution - won't crack, dissolve w/weird fuels, etc. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 332 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've done some minor work on the carbs, as in float adjustment. I found that the mating surfaces weren't very flat. I couldn't get a couple of the filter fittings to seal at all until I took a file to the seat. I was totally amazed at how uneven it was! I've heard the same comments about the choke covers. An old race car mechanic once mentioned that his favorite carb tool was his big flat file. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 619 Registered: 12-2001 |
Fuel seepage that gives the carbs the dirty look. No leaks, just weeping at the gaskets I guess. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2106 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hans, the accel. pump diaphrams are the same as as used in Ford Fiesta's with 32 DFTA's. But you don't need to specifically hunt those down, should be included in the DCNF rebuild kits. Seepage? You mean heavy varnish build-up on the carbs, or vacuum leaks? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 615 Registered: 12-2001 |
Get used to the seapage hans. I rebuilt mine 7000kms ago and they are starting to look dirty already. I sprayed them down once already with a cleaner I have so they look new again. Also, I found that after the rebuild, once they are used a little while, double check all the screws and especially the fuel bowl filter plugs, mine started to work loose and leak, as well as the fuel lines. Who knows, maybe Im just a putz but thats my story. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 331 Registered: 4-2002 |
Actually, changing the air correction jets should have minimal effect on driveability or plugs. They only affect the mixture at high rpm and heavy throttle - i.e. very high airflow. This winter I need to do carb rebuilds. Got some seepage, and, well, the damn things are 27 years old and never been serviced. More than a little afraid of the accel pump diaphragms. So when they are apart, I think I'll throw in some smaller air correction jets just for giggles. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 278 Registered: 5-2001 |
You may be right there Hans, but the issue then becomes "drivability"...You may make a few more hp, but at the expense of constantly fouling plugs and other issues. Obviously, your car is running right where it was meant. I was commenting on Paul, that he just needs to be careful, but in retrospect, what is the harm, he can always switch them back, right? :-) | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 329 Registered: 4-2002 |
P.S. There are some interesting graphs on fuel mixture .vs. hp and emissions in the Haynes Weber repair book. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 382 Registered: 4-2001 |
I went to 140 mains and it made all the difference in the world... Plugs look great now. 77 308, K&N filter, Tubi exhaust. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 325 Registered: 4-2002 |
Dave: 14 to 1 is correct for *efficient* combustion, but most HP is produced at 12.5-12.8 to 1. On my recent dyno run, my car (with stock 135 mains) measured at about 13.2:1 at 3500rpm and gradually leaned out to 14:1 at 7500rpm. Several of the race gurus suggested a very slight HP increase might be had going to smaller air correction jet (richening the mixture at high rpm), but probably not worth the effort. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 611 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thanks for the input, the reason why is because Im running high compression pistons and ported heads. Im assuming more power requires more fuel. I know of a GT4 with 160 mains, same mods but cams as well. Im not saying 160's are right for that car but it runs well with them. mine runs well with the 140's and the plugs are a light brown. I think I can go at least a half size without a driveability concern and dyno time is in the plans sometime in the future. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 275 Registered: 5-2001 |
Paul, I wouldn't recommend going to 145 or 150 mains unless you have a dyno and exhaust analyzer. The local dyno shop I went to had done three or four carb 308's and all of them were right at the ideal 14 to 1 air fuel ratio with 140 mains. To go further would be too rich, and risk fouling plugs, drivability issues and perhaps fuel washing down the cylinders...In fact, I believe one one of the cars ended up going back to 135 mains because of some drivability issues...But remember this was still an improvement over the stock 125's. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 665 Registered: 5-2002 |
I got the 140 mains on the way.I am going to pop them in first and go 1 step at a time. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 317 Registered: 4-2002 |
Paul: Try the 57's | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 610 Registered: 12-2001 |
Im still running 55's for idle jets but need to goto maybe 60's, the idle screws are out 6-1/2 turns to make it run right. Im happy with the way it runs but Im afraid the screws will fall out one day, not much spring tension holding them still. I plan on 145-150 mains next for experimentation. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 313 Registered: 4-2002 |
Yeah, I thought so too. I was speaking to a guy at Pierce Manifolds, asking him what I should do. He suggested the next size bigger, I said so "you mean I should get the 60's?". He said "No, they're available in half sizes." He sent the 57's. I think Pierce Manifolds is the west coast distributor for Weber. I've found that their inventory seems to be much larger than most. Also, they have a web-based parts book and catalog. | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 386 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hans, Are you sure they are 57 idle jets? I thought the were only available in increments of 5 (i.e. 50, 55, 60, 65, etc.) | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 312 Registered: 4-2002 |
I was getting a lean 'sneezing' up thru the carbs at low rpm and steady speed. Going up one size to 57 idle jets fixed it totally. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 273 Registered: 5-2001 |
I was running stock idle jets (55 I think) with the 140 mains in my 78 308 GTS.... | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 347 Registered: 9-2001 |
Paul What size idle jets are you running with the 1.40 mains? | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 664 Registered: 5-2002 |
thanks I'll give em acall./I am sure it is underjeted. Anyone know of dyno test facility near greater Philadelphia area????? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 604 Registered: 12-2001 |
Mine doesnt pop and has no smog whatsoever. Bruno, Im running 140mains, I got them from carbs unlimited and they stocked the stuff. To correct high speed mixture, air correctors will come into play. I believe you will be running 220's mabe 200's, change to a 190-195AC jets as well as the 140 mains. This applies to a stock 308 as well, I think they are undersized and could use a little tweeking. Carbs unlimited has a web site. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 159 Registered: 2-2002 |
Bruno: The popping noise you hear is because you removed the cats. The popping noise is actually unburnt gas. This is normal. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 663 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ya, I got a k&n already in. Doc.As soon as I get a driver over here I intend to do that and stand out front while he buzzes the house at 60mph. I think I am going to track down some 140 mains for the carbs.Any one know a good siupplier that stocks them? | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 375 Registered: 4-2001 |
Bruno, if you have opened up the breathing with a K&N filter as well you might want to re-jet your carbs, but popping when comming off the gas after you have installed a new exhaust system is more likley you have an exhaust leak... just double check your installation to make sure everything is good and snug... | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 331 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bruno, If you want to really appreciate the new sound you should have someone else drive it while you ride behind. I think you will be pleased. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 662 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rain let up. Did 80 mph. sound is great.Bit louder and deeper tone. I now however have a popping from the exhaust bubbling type sound when I come off the gas or rev hard at or over 5k rpm. I am assuming carbs now need adjusting and/or rejet? | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 661 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well Gentlemen,It's in.Installation was straight forward and a perfect fit.Every pipe and fitting was precise and in the exact spot. The flanges were loose and swivelled (sp) around to aid in the install.The stainless steel hardware was exact. The bolts for the flanges were longer than necessary but did not get in the way in any way. I did not use the exhaust donuts that came with it .I used sintered ones due top a recommendation from a Fchatter (thanks Dave).With everything back and mounted it took 2 hours. Will post pics of rear tonite.(my camera is in my wife's car and she's out). Now for the sound, Sound is A-1.It is not much louder than stock (3-4 db.).Which is unusal for a free flowing system.It has a deeper tone more than a louder sound. Sounds more like a mean v-8. But if you are not an astout Ferrari guy you will not notice anything. I can not tell you about performance or how it sounds at 100 mph as IT WONT STOP RAINING HERE. I dont want to chirp gears and go that fast in a downpour. However I will tomorrow IF IT STOPS RAINING. Any questions please post. I am very satisfied with it and would not even consider a tubi at the higher price and harder retrofit. Remember you can just bolt this muffler in as is in place of your stock one and leave your cats alone if you like. Thats a nice fit. Pics to follow tonite. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 264 Registered: 5-2001 |
No way, do not hollow out the cats! Sell them on Ebay and make $315 like I did... :-) Thought they would have sold for a bit more, but I'll take it. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2002 |
Looks great and you're probably better of with the pipes. Changing the cross-sectional area quickly, like the entrance on the cat housing usually reduces flow, you can't go wrong with a straight pipe. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 660 Registered: 5-2002 |
I orderd it through my buddies body shop.Got a little discount. Muffler was 985.00 Pipes were 150.00. install kit was 21.00. Shipping was 40.00.Should have sound report tonite.Also dont see any reason to buy pipes.If I had it to do again I would just hollow out the cats. | ||
| Allen Cook (Alcook62)
Junior Member Username: Alcook62 Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2002 |
That is a very clean looking set-up. Does the $1200 include shipping? I contacted them for a price about two months ago and it was a bit higher and that didn't include the freight charge. I'm very curious to get your report on the sound. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 658 Registered: 5-2002 |
$1200.00 USD. With the harware and exhaust gaskets. I'll let you know how it sounds.I am going to put it in tomorrow.Price is the best I could find. And it bolts right in. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 601 Registered: 12-2001 |
What did it wind up costing you Bruno. Now I can see that with and without converters, the exhaust is completely different. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 657 Registered: 5-2002 |
here is a pic of my new 308 muffler and test pipes.All stainless from Stebro.I will post how the installation goes and the sound and performance Sunday.It looks like a perfect bolt on fit.    |