| Author |
Message |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 5:07 pm: | |
Tim -- Functionally very little (although a cut spring is a little bit stiffer spring too), but 2 reasons changing the lower perch on a 308 has advantages vs cutting IMO:
1. The end of a cut spring is not squared and ground so it doesn't fit the flat spring mounting surfaces of the Koni very well, and
2. replacing the perch is easily reversible (and the cost of the perch is less than the cost of a spring).
See:
http://www.happyisgood.com/perch
for more information. |
Timothy Fulmer (Tf308)
New member
Username: Tf308
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 4:18 pm: | |
I remember some guys talking about suspension perch changes in lowering the 308. What is the difference between cutting the springs and changing the perches? What is the better way to go? |
Geoffrey Staniford (Geoffrey)
New member
Username: Geoffrey
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 7:42 pm: | |
I do notice more kick back through the wheel - definitely more road feel is transmitted. I attribute this partly to the smaller steering wheel as well as the rack. I thought the change to the steering would result in much more vibration, but on most roads (i.e., relatively smooth) it is not too bad - just not as dampened a feeling as stock.
I lowered the front by having the front springs cut by, I think, about a turn and a quarter each, I also took about a turn off the rear springs, as well. I had swapped the heavy U.S. bumpers for the lighter euro style bumpers and changed the 14" wheels for 16" wheels, so lowering the car was necessary to reduce the increased wheel well gap resulting from the slight weight loss and lower profile wheels/tires. The car corners much better now - less roll and better turn-in. Losing the heavy bumpers was a big help. |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
New member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:47 pm: | |
Geoffrey
Thanks for the informative post on your experience with the faster rack. Do you notice any more violent "kick back" through the wheel than stock when going over pot holes or other road imperfections that impact one side of the car more than the other?
I find the stock set up transfers a lot of road detail through the wheel, which is great for feel, particularly at the track, but on bumpy roads (I live in Chicago area) a pot hole or similar large asymetric impact can have an almost vicious effect on turning the wheel if hit with a solid "thump".
On the pads, I do think there is a tradeoff between cold and warm/hot performance. As I said in my earlier post, I have found the R-4S to be the best compromise and the only pad that works on the track without everything turning to mush.
Philip |
Timothy Fulmer (Tf308)
New member
Username: Tf308
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 7:18 pm: | |
G,
How did you go about lowering your front end? |
Geoffrey Staniford (Geoffrey)
New member
Username: Geoffrey
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 5:40 pm: | |
To answer the original question, I have installed the fast rack on my 308GTS and recommend it highly. The increase in gearing is quite noticeable and helps a lot in tight cornering situations - autocrosses, track chicanes, mountain roads and so on. I was told that the new rack might have an adverse affect on high speed directional stability due to increased sensitivity, but I have not found that to be the case.
I should mention that I installed a smaller diameter steering wheel and lowered the front end slightly at the same time as I changed the rack (350 mm Momo Champion vs. stock 370 mm Momo), which has all served to transform the front end of my car. With the smaller wheel, steering resistance is higher - which I like, as I always thought the stock steering feel was a bit light, and geared too low. With the fast rack and smaller thicker wheel, the steering feels more direct and easier to control since less input is needed - it is much more kart like now. Now, if we could only find something to take care of the ridiculously large turning radius...
In response to the brake thread that has popped up, I also second the Porterfield R4S pads for track and road use. Once they are warmed up they are quite good and stay consistent, but when cold I find they require longer stopping distances. I guess this is part of the road vs. track trade-off.
|
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
New member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 1:35 pm: | |
A steering thread seems to have become a brake pad/brakes thread. Without wishing to compound this unduly, I'd second the R-4S recommendation for the 308. I have used three different pads (stock ATE, Pagid and the Porterfields). The R-4S is the only pad to date that has NOT faded at the track. I did upgrade to Motul 600 fluid at the same time as the Porterfields, so it is not quite apples to apples.
Philip |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 100
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 12:33 am: | |
Greg: I use the R4S from Porterfield -- they're MUCH better (including at the track) than the AXXIS/Lucas MetalMax pads I had before. |
David Jones (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 406
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 5:28 pm: | |
The rotors I mentioned from Race Technologies are stock size and will fit without any mods... They come in solid, cross drilled, and slotted.
Race Technologies is the only place Brembo recommends for cross drilled rotors...
As far as pads the Porterfields are good,
I chose EBC greenstuff pads for a good price from tirerack.com...
If your looking for a big brake kit they have been out there for years, Brembo is just now marketing that fact... A good place is autosparacing.com, If I remember right it will run about $2400.00 for the fronts, and for what they want for rears with emergancy brake funtion you could buy a used car. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 513
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 10:36 am: | |
A few questions. Are the Brembos stock sizes or larger rotors? What type of pads are better for increasing stopping power? R4S Porterfields? |
David Jones (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 400
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 9:29 am: | |
Tommy, I have helped install big brake kits on 3 308s... 2 of them just on the front, and 1 of them on all 4 corners.
The guy who did all 4, when all was said and done could have sold his stock 308 and bought a 348 with the upgrade money he spent on the brakes...
Most 308 owners will see a huge difference by just going to a better pad.
One other note,
just remember when you install a big brake kit on an old 308 you will be installing more than you think...
On the cars I have helped with, along with the new rotors and calipers, they also had to buy new wheels to clear the larger setup, don't forget new tires for those new wheels, and lug nuts to hold them on, as well as mounting and balancing...
Then the ones who just upgraded the fronts found out that they had to reproportion the brake valving because of the difference in the fronts stopping power.
A $2500.00 big brake kit turnes to a $5000.00 job real quick.
But if you've got the money, go for it.
|
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 361
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 6:11 pm: | |
I am buying the Brembo kit as soon as I can. I track my car alot and love a good hard braking car |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 299
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 4:15 pm: | |
Can't speak for the 308 but I did put factory racing 10mm shorter steering knuckles on my 240Z and the improvement was unbelievable - U-turns on 2 lanes without leaving the pavement and much quicker reaction to steering input; I would imagine the 308 would have similar results since the principal is the same.... |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2826
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 3:03 pm: | |
Theoretically a faster rack would make it a touch more necessary to have a steady hand when going straight. As long as there isn't any play though and you don't have some sort of nasty twitch I don't think it would really be a problem. I would think at slow speeds it would be harder than the already hard to turn steering though which might be a pain if you drive that way a lot. The big thing to me that would be a benefit to faster steering would be the ability to correct oversteer faster than with the stock rack. I think the stock rack is a good setup though for now. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2825
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 3:00 pm: | |
Interesting, I had heard they were working on it and had problems last year, nice to see they nailed it. I'm sure by the time I do brakes I'll have conjured up some ridiculous scheme based on something I can get used at work (hopefully someone's giving away old 333 brakes). The head mechanic always gets a kick out me asking him if he thinks such and such customer would notice if I took a caliper here, a rotor there, etc. Those 355 Challenge brakes look nice... |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 356
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 12:23 pm: | |
Would a faster ratio rack make it more difficult to keep straight on the highway? |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 355
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 12:12 pm: | |
Bret, You don't need to go to a 355. Brembo released an upgrade for the 308's this past summer. Front only, they said the rear upgrade was not necessary. It is basically a 355 setup that fits the 308. |
David Jones (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 388
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 6:09 pm: | |
Stock calipers, and stock size rotors...
If you are not road racing your 308 it is a waste of money for a big brake kit.
The pads are EBC green stuff road/sport pads from tirerack.com
The rotors are cross drilled Brembo RTR 3081 & RTR 3082 from Race Technologies.
|
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2803
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 11:11 am: | |
Hey David, what rotors and calipers did you go with from Brembo? I've been thinking of swapping them from a wrecked 355 or 360, will require some welding though most likely, or at least making some custom brackets, especially for the rear ones. I'm wondering if there is an easier way. |
David Jones (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 387
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 9:22 am: | |
Greg, I have purchased this but have yet to install it...
It was a last winter job that I never got around to.
I will try and tackle it this winter along with new poly bushings, springs & shocks, Brembo cross drilled rotors & kevlar pads... That way I only have to align the car once. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 398
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 6:29 pm: | |
Magoo,
Superformance in the UK offers the necessary parts.
http://www.superformance.co.uk/download/246-308%20Fast%20Racks.PDF |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3265
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 5:23 pm: | |
I didn't know there was a "fast rack" that could be installed on the 308s. Is this a aftermarket rack that offers better steering on the 308? |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 509
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 4:44 pm: | |
I was wondering if anyone has tried the fast rack steering rack on the 308. It is supposed to have a faster ratio. If so how did you like it, improvement? Thanks. |